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It's also the kind of story that can break someone's journalistic career. Even Fox News wouldn't run the story because it wasn't supported by facts. And last

It's also the kind of story that can break someone's journalistic career. Even Fox News wouldn't run the story because it wasn't supported by facts. And last I heard, there still has been no concrete evidence of wrongdoing. Tucker Carlson claims that his evidence "got lost in the mail". In the age of the internet, they didn't snap any photos of this so-called proof? There is no "there" there. Just a bunch of internet sleuths with MS paint red circles and theories about deep states. And your comment falls into this category.

marcusverus 6y ago
Glenn Greenwald is a Pulitzer prize winning journalist. He broke the Snowden story--another sensational-sounding scoop which likely sounded like total bullshit at first. Is it possible that Mr. Greenwald is a better judge of whether or not there is a story here?
- drewrv 6y ago
  It's also possible he's a once great journalist who has gone off the rails. Which seems likely given the fact that the editors at a publication he founded refused to publish this piece.
  - outsomnia 6y ago
    The big problem for me is he does not set the context for the allegations, that the US is about to go to a critical and fiercely-contested election, last time there were all kinds of manipulations, and the role he s set on playing right in the last few days is analogous to that of Comey v2 and the laptop is "the emails". Without the context, it's not being given to the reader to judge why this is a story, the real provonance of the maguffin-laptop, if it really has any impact in the Biden vs Trump question or is just noise...
    - afiori 6y ago
      In this context jumping on claims of Russian interference is similarly damaging. Moreover I feel like this would be a bad precedent. Suppose Biden wins now and Trump runs again in 2024, I personally would not like a similar grace being offered to him (with no evidence of interference).
- originalvichy 6y ago
  I think saying he brokenthe stort is a bit of a stretch. Didn’t Snowden himself contact journalists? Snowden was tightly in contact with these journalists and showed them undoubtable proof that he did indeed work with the NSA. This story as I understand it is not even close to the level of verification that the Snowden story had.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Wait so what's the claim at this point? The Hunter Biden emails are fake? or that they are real, but Giuliani got them from Russian agents? Or that they are real, but "the big guy" doesn't refer to Joe Biden? Or that they are real, but Hunter Biden was just saying shit, and Joe didn't actually do any of these things? Any but the last claim seems likely false to me, pretty hilarious to see so many on the thread arguing otherwise.
    - titanomachy 6y ago
      The last one seems plausible. It's pretty clear that Hunter implied that he could influence the US government in an effort to make deals. It's less clear that his claim was true.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        Agreed, which is why it’s the only one I labeled as not pretty clearly false. I think it’s a dumb reason to not vote for Biden, but I find the cognitive dissonance with which this story is being treated sorta astonishing.
    - kangaroozach 6y ago
      There is no claim. It’s all misdirection. All you have to do is cite some known figure supporting the mere possibility of some vague non-claim and it becomes the branch that ideologues desperately cling to. No one is overtly making any of the logical claims you posit above. Not Biden nor his family or campaign. They simply need to use buzzwords like Smear, Russia, and 50 high ranking officials, and that’s all the sheeple, especially those in the SV echo chamber, need to hear.
- rat87 6y ago
  It's more likely that Greenwalds colleagues are a better judge
  - ethanwillis 6y ago
    It's more likely that the Church is right about heliocentrism being wrong. They do after all, have more people on their side. In my opinion this is weak reasoning and it only serves to allow people to cement their minority opinions more. Regardless of whether they're correct or not.
    - weakfish 6y ago
      Logical fallacy, straw man argument.
      - ethanwillis 6y ago
        Well, unless rat87 clarifies their argument about why it is they think the colleagues are more likely to be correct this is the best we can do. There's no inherent reason the colleagues are more likely to be correct.
    - syshum 6y ago
      The authoritarian left today is not about facts or reality or science. it is about "My Personal Truth", majoritarianism, and tribal dogma This is the culture / ideology that has taken over a large part of the "news" industry It is very much regressive and has all the same kind of tribal dogma that fueled rhetoric that aligns nicely with those dark times where scientists where executed for daring to refute the dogma of the majority While we are not physically executing people today, cancel culture is emotionally, socially, and virtually executing anyone that dares to disagree with their tribe
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Oh yes, your character judged by your peers, a la Cultural Revolution. Wonderful.
- r-w 6y ago
  The namesake of the Pulitzer prize, Joseph Pulitzer, was one of the foremost proponents of yellow journalism. Rudy Giuliani, an American hero for a couple of years after 9/11, is now a foreign asset for all intents and purposes. Having prestige doesn't make you infallible, it just means you were in the right place at the right time.
  - lliamander 6y ago
    The DNI has already stated that there is no evidence that Hunter Biden's laptop is "Russian disinformation".
    - seppin 6y ago
      partisanship makes people stupid.
      - lliamander 6y ago
        Please show me the evidence of Russian influence. There has been plenty of evidence that the contents of the laptop are authentic.
        free_rms 6y ago
        Even if they're not authentic, it could just be a regular old lie. You know, lies? Like happen all the time in politics? Why does everything have to be a Russian conspiracy. There was a front page article on HN the other day with people taking a Russian Death Ray seriously. Taking it seriously! Come on, people.
        lliamander 6y ago
        The timing if the this all coming out is super suspicious, but the "it's the Russians!" thing just made me groan. If Democrats had simply said it was a lie I would have found that much more believable.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  Here’s what his own (ex-) colleagues say: > We have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be, and we remain proud of much of the work we did with him over the past six years. It is Glenn who has strayed from his original journalistic roots, not The Intercept. https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-the-intercept/ https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-...
  - pengaru 6y ago
    Who constitute those being criticized remaining with The Intercept... no bias whatsoever likely coloring those statements. /s
  - gwd 6y ago
    It would have been much better if they responded to the factual claims Greenwald laid out in the article they refused to publish. I read that article, and his argument for why the Biden emails pass at least the plausibility bar sound reasonable. BTW, the DKIM signature on at least one of the emails has been verified: https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim EDIT: OK, rather than downvoting, which isn't going to change my mind, why don't you help address his points? If you change my mind, I'll go try to change other people's minds. "The Hunter Biden documents have at least as much verification as those other archives [the Panama Papers, Wikileaks war logs, Podesta / DNC emails from 2016] that were widely reported. There are sources in the email chains who have verified that the published emails are accurate. The archive contains private photos and videos of Hunter whose authenticity is not in doubt. A former business partner of Hunter has stated, unequivocally and on the record, that not only are the emails authentic but they describe events accurately, including proposed participation by the former Vice President in at least one deal Hunter and Jim Biden were pursuing in China. And, most importantly of all, neither Hunter Biden nor the Biden campaign has even suggested, let alone claimed, that a single email or text is fake." Add to that that at least one email has had its DKIM signature verified (see the link above). I hate Trump and think a second term would be an unmitigated disaster for our democracy. Even if the worst of the allegations or insinuations were true I think Biden would be better for our country than Trump. If I were an editor of a newspaper, I'd certainly think twice before publishing something like this, even if I thought they were accurate. But I would never throw shade on a fellow journalist for writing something like this. And as a voter, if I'm going to choose the lesser of two evils, I want to know just how evil the lesser one is.
- untog 6y ago
  The Pulitzer focus on the individual journalist has a lot to answer for sometimes. The amazing stories Greenwald wrote were all edited by an editor that helped refine, focus and potentially correct mistakes. Would he win a Pulitzer for a piece he wrote entirely by himself? We don’t know. But the emails he released today show him objecting to exactly this process. The editor gave him a number of suggested improvements and clarifications, and he balked.
- LiquidSky 6y ago
  No. The story is what the evidence supports. He had Snowden and plenty of credible evidence when he broke that story. He claims he had to leave because of intolerable political bias and censorship, The Intercept says it was because he wanted to publish claims that were not supported by the current evidence. If I understand correctly, Greenwald himself doesn't dispute that he doesn't have access to the files in question and therefore can't have substantiated anything in his article beyond what is already publicly known, which is very little. Greenwald may be a great journalist but that doesn't mean his word is now taken on faith alone.
  - noobermin 6y ago
    This to me is the more interesting story. What happened here? I understand that russiagate made many people crazy, both those who believed it and those who vehemently fought against it. I don't however understand how some people became turned into complete contrarians over it like Greenwald seems to have.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      Greenwald has always been incredibly critical of the media, and that is his main point both here and with Russiagate.
- tootie 6y ago
  Greenwald is a lifelong sensationalist. His blog in the old days was extremely colorful and featured a lot of leaps of logic. It won him a fan base that included Ed Snowden. He's really a terrible journalist who just happened to get his hands on a treasure trove. The Guardian was part of the Snowden story as well and they don't publish garbage like the Biden laptop story with any undue credence.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    What is your reference for a good journalist? Your criticism sounds baseless to be honest. Sensationalism because he uncovered evidence of mass surveillance. Who is a better journalist?
    - sidibe 6y ago
      I remember reading an article by him about the Mali conflict a few years ago where it was so obvious he didn't know shit about what was happening there and was just using it to say West is Bad. It was rather supportive of the pre-ISIS that had taken over northern Mali and led me to believe his MO as a journalist is to start with his contrarian agenda and then look for ways to turn any event into supporting evidence (with rhetoric more than facts), more so than other journalists
      - seppin 6y ago
        Many on the left operate with "The US is to blame for all the world's problems" as their main worldview. Everything they report on is filtered through this prism. Greenwald is the de facto leader of this movement.
    - tootie 6y ago
      The NY Times exposed far more than Greenwald did. James Risen went to court to protect his sources in multiple occasions. And Risen works with a team and has the full support of his editors and employer. Greenwald is a journalistic berserker. He swings wildly and occasionally hits a target others can't get to. Really though it is my opinion based on observation.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Lots of people that are good with editors decline in quality when they become stars that are too big to listen to editors. That's not restricted to journalism, either.
- noobermin 6y ago
  Was he trying to pitch an actual story with new evidence and sources or just an op-ed? I agree with the general idea that having Greenwald resign sucks but I don't really know if there is any real evidence behind the Hunter Biden story beyond what is sort of already obvious.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  The Biden story sounds like bs? I was under the impression that their alleged behaviour was the de facto standard in a capitalist system. I’d be surprised if anyone with that kind of power wasn’t leveraging it to secure generational wealth. It’s like athletes and doping. You’d be stupid not to try given the potential rewards.
  - intended 6y ago
    From what I gather, the circumstances for the “laptop” to be obtained by a legally blind store an improbably large distance away from anywhere hunter Biden would be, is among the first of many red flags that this is a disinformation attempt. Part of it getting past scrutiny, is playing on the assumption that people will cheat. I mean sure, but this stupidly? After Trump used taxpayer money to stay at his hotels publicly?
    - techdevangelist 6y ago
      Add in they paid $85 for data recovery on 3 water logged Apple laptops... I’ve paid for data recovery services on drives, it’s a lot more than 85 bucks...
      - intended 6y ago
        What? $85 for data recovery? That's nuts. Side note: NBC broke a story broke a few hours ago showing that this was a case of false news. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-...
        Amezarak 6y ago
        The NBC story is about a completely separate incident. It has nothing to do with the laptop. The contents of the laptop are not "fake news." At least one email has had its DKIM signature verified. Multiple people who were copied on the emails have verified their authenticity. The pictures and videos of Hunter Biden on the laptop speak for themselves. It is entirely possible that the story of how the laptop was acquired is at least partially fake, but there's no actual evidence of that, and some evidence pointing the other way - why would Biden's lawyer ask the computer shop owner for the laptop if he didn't have it, and Biden if Biden thought he didn't have it? This story is truly shocking to me, not so much for the allegations of corruption, which are neither surprising nor interesting, but for the willful blindness of so many very smart people who are using a lot of brainpower to rationalize it away.
- Arainach 6y ago
  A Pulitzer-winning journalist who grew more and more detached from reality as his worldview was overtaken by hatred for Hillary Clinton. Greenwald's emphasis here is completely unplaced. It is once again an attempt to make things seem equal. Unsubstantiated stories like this get no news time - and yet the fact that the opposite is undeniably true - Trump's children have not only been actively involved in the administration but have been coordinating deals for Trump's businesses, making millions of dollars, and even receiving international quid pro quo such as Chinese patent approvals - is ignored and treated as nothing. If Trump is anything less than an utter disaster, it's seen as a success. If the democratic nominee (Biden or Clinton before him) does anything less than perfect, it dominates the news cycle for weeks.
- ritchiea 6y ago
  Greenwald didn't have to do any work for the Snowden stories, Snowden approached Greenwald. And from my understanding, Snowden didn't approach Greenwald because he was the "best" journalist to break the story. Snowden had an existing relationship with Barton Gellman of the Washington Post who Snowden also leaked to. But Greenwald was willing to put an encrypted key in the leaks to help Snowden prove he was the leaker to foreign governments while seeking asylum, which Gellman wasn't willing to do. Then Greenwald parlayed having Snowden approach him into becoming a celebrity journalist. So Greenwald is a guy who takes a lot of credit for being in the right place at the right time and someone else handing him a scoop. Exactly the kind of person I wouldn't trust.
  - harry8 6y ago
    no support for those assertions provided. Never heard /anything/ like that before. Color me suspicious, sure. But if you've got the supporting evidence I'll change my tune...
    - ritchiea 6y ago
      Listen to Barton Gellman on the Longform podcast or read his book.
      - spsful 6y ago
        Not to be crass but I think just throwing a book out doesn't help to give evidence-- I think they are looking for specific examples.
        ritchiea 6y ago
        He/she said there isn’t evidence for what I was claiming, I told them where I got the info & where they can find it themselves. Couldn’t be a more straightforward interaction.
        harry8 6y ago
- RIMR 6y ago
  I have seen too many journalists gain a reputation for one story, and then ride that reputation into the ground, and while I still have a lot of respect for Greenwald, I feel like that's what I'm watching happen with him right now.
lliamander 6y ago
There absolutely is a "there" there. The DOJ has acknowledged that it has had a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden "and associates" for money laundering since 2019, and there is evidence and a credible witness that the Biden's (including Joe Biden) were involved in a bribery scheme with foreign governments. Just start here: https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/tony-bobulinksi-i-have-now-put-myself-in-huge-risk-for-the-sake-of-the-american-people https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/tony-bobulinksi-i-...
- alisonkisk 6y ago
  Sinclair is a self-admitted Republican media enterprise. The supposed witness is a Trump campaign member who has provided no evident except oral interviews on right-wing media.
  - lliamander 6y ago
    Bobulinski is a member of the campaign? I've seen no evidence of that. Btw, he handed over phones with emails and documents to the FBI.
    - albinofrenchy 6y ago
      Is this not the guy who went to the presidential debate as a guest of Trump's?
      - lliamander 6y ago
        That does not make him a "member of the campaign". The dude is a centrist Democrat. He's pissed because the he was being smeared by association when Adam Schiff and others claimed the laptops contents was part of "Russian disinformation".
fredguth 6y ago
If you read Greenwald’s piece, you will understand why he disagrees with you. I, personally, credit his ethics more than I credit TheIntercept’s editor and this is why I immediately subscribed his substack.
Uhhrrr 6y ago
UPS confirms that the package was lost: https://www.thedailybeast.com/ups-confirms-mystery-tucker-carlson-package-disappeared-in-its-system?ref=home https://www.thedailybeast.com/ups-confirms-mystery-tucker-ca...
- wrycoder 6y ago
  UPS has found it again, per the Beast.
- gitweb 6y ago
  This story still sounds bizarre and like a load of BS. I wouldn't put it past a low level employee to confirm something has been found just to keep the suspense for the gullible alive, especially when the documents could have been scanned and encrypted.
- ggggtez 6y ago
  Don't be confused. Packages are lost, and found, every day. The real question is about what they claim to be the contents of the package. Which as of today, is still unknown. At this point, 4 days from the election, you should be especially skeptical of extraordinary claims without proof.
prawn 6y ago
Further, the NY Post struggled to find in-house writers that would put their name to the story because they weren't confident about the story's credibility. Of the two bylines, one found out after the fact. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-post-hunter-biden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-p...
refurb 6y ago
Even Fox News wouldn't run the story because it wasn't supported by facts. Run what story? Fox news has been covering the hard drive since it was released. And yes, no concrete evidence of wrong doing, but if you read Glenn's email, he clearly states that "something smells rotten" and the editors response is "we won't even allow pointed questions about Biden". Glenn is offering the Biden camp more benefit of the doubt than the MSM has offered Trump when random allegations arise. That's the issue - the MSM holds up "journalistic integrity" when it suits their political candidate. That's not integrity at all. That's just corruption of the what journalism is supposed to be.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  There was no concrete evidence of the Russia collusion bullshit and yet that dominated the airwaves for 3 years. The major news networks spent 3 years on a poorly conceived conspiracy theory.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Precisely. The press was willing to run with a story that had little to no supporting evidence and in the end turned out to be false. Yet the tables are turned here and suddenly they have concerns about disinformation? To the point they won't even allow it to be discussed? That's what impresses me about Greenwald and Taibbi. They both hate Trump. But they aren't willing to put their journalistic ethics aside because of it.
    - spurgu 6y ago
      > That's what impresses me about Greenwald and Taibbi. They both hate Trump. But they aren't willing to put their journalistic ethics aside because of it. This is exactly why I decided to sub for Greenwald for $5/month on Substack.
- afiori 6y ago
  This especially applies so soon after Trump tax return story, which where objectively result of hacking (unless Trump himself leaked them) and had zero verification.
afiori 6y ago
Carlson never claimed that the evidence is now lost, just that it was stolen. IIRC he also did not claim that it was definitive evidence. Plausible motive for the thief could have been risk assessment for the documents.
ColanR 6y ago
Sounds like the UPS confirms there was a package and it got lost. https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-says-it-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-biden-claim-2020-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-says-it-lost-tucker-carl...
thu2111 6y ago
Tucker Carlson claims that his evidence "got lost in the mail" No he didn't - where did that come from? He claimed the mail had been intercepted, someone had ripped open the parcel in transit and stolen the documents, and that the courier firm had even shown them pictures of the ripped-open package. He then made a series of remarkably precise claims about their interaction with the courier, the search the courier firm mounted to try and find the stolen documents and so on. According to sibling comments this story was now confirmed in its entirety by UPS. Ironically, I learned what Tucker Carlson said by reading the Guardian. Their top story yesterday (in terms of views) was something like "Tucker Carlson mocked after claiming evidence was lost in the mail". Obviously the Guardian, and those people who mocked him or lied about his claims now look very foolish and naive indeed, because his claims have been verified in their entirety by the courier firm themselves. The real story here is that UPS has been corrupted by the same kinds of win-at-any-cost leftists who blocked the story at Twitter and other places: they are so desperate for this to go away that they're actually destroying their own customer's valuables in transit. In the USA every line of communication is being shut down by these radicals, even postal mail.
- neilpointer 6y ago
  and today the package has been found and Tucker is on air saying, "you know what? maybe we should lay off Hunter. After all, he's a troubled man." What's more likely: that Tucker is full of shit and never had the kind of story he claims he did, or that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS and were lying in wait to kill this story and any others like in before the election? The lengths people will go to find a conspiracy when there's a simpler explanation will always baffle me
  - SamReidHughes 6y ago
    Like, he was obviously referring to the underage nudes and PornHub account, which don't directly reflect on his father's conduct. So yeah, there's stuff they're not going to air. > that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS You mean the Teamsters?
  - thu2111 6y ago

marcusverus 6y ago

Glenn Greenwald is a Pulitzer prize winning journalist. He broke the Snowden story--another sensational-sounding scoop which likely sounded like total bullshit at first. Is it possible that Mr. Greenwald is a better judge of whether or not there is a story here?

drewrv 6y ago
It's also possible he's a once great journalist who has gone off the rails. Which seems likely given the fact that the editors at a publication he founded refused to publish this piece.
- outsomnia 6y ago
  The big problem for me is he does not set the context for the allegations, that the US is about to go to a critical and fiercely-contested election, last time there were all kinds of manipulations, and the role he s set on playing right in the last few days is analogous to that of Comey v2 and the laptop is "the emails". Without the context, it's not being given to the reader to judge why this is a story, the real provonance of the maguffin-laptop, if it really has any impact in the Biden vs Trump question or is just noise...
  - afiori 6y ago
    In this context jumping on claims of Russian interference is similarly damaging. Moreover I feel like this would be a bad precedent. Suppose Biden wins now and Trump runs again in 2024, I personally would not like a similar grace being offered to him (with no evidence of interference).
originalvichy 6y ago
I think saying he brokenthe stort is a bit of a stretch. Didn’t Snowden himself contact journalists? Snowden was tightly in contact with these journalists and showed them undoubtable proof that he did indeed work with the NSA. This story as I understand it is not even close to the level of verification that the Snowden story had.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Wait so what's the claim at this point? The Hunter Biden emails are fake? or that they are real, but Giuliani got them from Russian agents? Or that they are real, but "the big guy" doesn't refer to Joe Biden? Or that they are real, but Hunter Biden was just saying shit, and Joe didn't actually do any of these things? Any but the last claim seems likely false to me, pretty hilarious to see so many on the thread arguing otherwise.
  - titanomachy 6y ago
    The last one seems plausible. It's pretty clear that Hunter implied that he could influence the US government in an effort to make deals. It's less clear that his claim was true.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      Agreed, which is why it’s the only one I labeled as not pretty clearly false. I think it’s a dumb reason to not vote for Biden, but I find the cognitive dissonance with which this story is being treated sorta astonishing.
  - kangaroozach 6y ago
    There is no claim. It’s all misdirection. All you have to do is cite some known figure supporting the mere possibility of some vague non-claim and it becomes the branch that ideologues desperately cling to. No one is overtly making any of the logical claims you posit above. Not Biden nor his family or campaign. They simply need to use buzzwords like Smear, Russia, and 50 high ranking officials, and that’s all the sheeple, especially those in the SV echo chamber, need to hear.
rat87 6y ago
It's more likely that Greenwalds colleagues are a better judge
- ethanwillis 6y ago
  It's more likely that the Church is right about heliocentrism being wrong. They do after all, have more people on their side. In my opinion this is weak reasoning and it only serves to allow people to cement their minority opinions more. Regardless of whether they're correct or not.
  - weakfish 6y ago
    Logical fallacy, straw man argument.
    - ethanwillis 6y ago
      Well, unless rat87 clarifies their argument about why it is they think the colleagues are more likely to be correct this is the best we can do. There's no inherent reason the colleagues are more likely to be correct.
  - syshum 6y ago
    The authoritarian left today is not about facts or reality or science. it is about "My Personal Truth", majoritarianism, and tribal dogma This is the culture / ideology that has taken over a large part of the "news" industry It is very much regressive and has all the same kind of tribal dogma that fueled rhetoric that aligns nicely with those dark times where scientists where executed for daring to refute the dogma of the majority While we are not physically executing people today, cancel culture is emotionally, socially, and virtually executing anyone that dares to disagree with their tribe
- cambalache 6y ago
  Oh yes, your character judged by your peers, a la Cultural Revolution. Wonderful.
r-w 6y ago
The namesake of the Pulitzer prize, Joseph Pulitzer, was one of the foremost proponents of yellow journalism. Rudy Giuliani, an American hero for a couple of years after 9/11, is now a foreign asset for all intents and purposes. Having prestige doesn't make you infallible, it just means you were in the right place at the right time.
- lliamander 6y ago
  The DNI has already stated that there is no evidence that Hunter Biden's laptop is "Russian disinformation".
  - seppin 6y ago
    partisanship makes people stupid.
    - lliamander 6y ago
      Please show me the evidence of Russian influence. There has been plenty of evidence that the contents of the laptop are authentic.
      - free_rms 6y ago
        Even if they're not authentic, it could just be a regular old lie. You know, lies? Like happen all the time in politics? Why does everything have to be a Russian conspiracy. There was a front page article on HN the other day with people taking a Russian Death Ray seriously. Taking it seriously! Come on, people.
        lliamander 6y ago
        The timing if the this all coming out is super suspicious, but the "it's the Russians!" thing just made me groan. If Democrats had simply said it was a lie I would have found that much more believable.
jacobolus 6y ago
Here’s what his own (ex-) colleagues say: > We have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be, and we remain proud of much of the work we did with him over the past six years. It is Glenn who has strayed from his original journalistic roots, not The Intercept. https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-the-intercept/ https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-...
- pengaru 6y ago
  Who constitute those being criticized remaining with The Intercept... no bias whatsoever likely coloring those statements. /s
- gwd 6y ago
  It would have been much better if they responded to the factual claims Greenwald laid out in the article they refused to publish. I read that article, and his argument for why the Biden emails pass at least the plausibility bar sound reasonable. BTW, the DKIM signature on at least one of the emails has been verified: https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim EDIT: OK, rather than downvoting, which isn't going to change my mind, why don't you help address his points? If you change my mind, I'll go try to change other people's minds. "The Hunter Biden documents have at least as much verification as those other archives [the Panama Papers, Wikileaks war logs, Podesta / DNC emails from 2016] that were widely reported. There are sources in the email chains who have verified that the published emails are accurate. The archive contains private photos and videos of Hunter whose authenticity is not in doubt. A former business partner of Hunter has stated, unequivocally and on the record, that not only are the emails authentic but they describe events accurately, including proposed participation by the former Vice President in at least one deal Hunter and Jim Biden were pursuing in China. And, most importantly of all, neither Hunter Biden nor the Biden campaign has even suggested, let alone claimed, that a single email or text is fake." Add to that that at least one email has had its DKIM signature verified (see the link above). I hate Trump and think a second term would be an unmitigated disaster for our democracy. Even if the worst of the allegations or insinuations were true I think Biden would be better for our country than Trump. If I were an editor of a newspaper, I'd certainly think twice before publishing something like this, even if I thought they were accurate. But I would never throw shade on a fellow journalist for writing something like this. And as a voter, if I'm going to choose the lesser of two evils, I want to know just how evil the lesser one is.
untog 6y ago
The Pulitzer focus on the individual journalist has a lot to answer for sometimes. The amazing stories Greenwald wrote were all edited by an editor that helped refine, focus and potentially correct mistakes. Would he win a Pulitzer for a piece he wrote entirely by himself? We don’t know. But the emails he released today show him objecting to exactly this process. The editor gave him a number of suggested improvements and clarifications, and he balked.
LiquidSky 6y ago
No. The story is what the evidence supports. He had Snowden and plenty of credible evidence when he broke that story. He claims he had to leave because of intolerable political bias and censorship, The Intercept says it was because he wanted to publish claims that were not supported by the current evidence. If I understand correctly, Greenwald himself doesn't dispute that he doesn't have access to the files in question and therefore can't have substantiated anything in his article beyond what is already publicly known, which is very little. Greenwald may be a great journalist but that doesn't mean his word is now taken on faith alone.
- noobermin 6y ago
  This to me is the more interesting story. What happened here? I understand that russiagate made many people crazy, both those who believed it and those who vehemently fought against it. I don't however understand how some people became turned into complete contrarians over it like Greenwald seems to have.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Greenwald has always been incredibly critical of the media, and that is his main point both here and with Russiagate.
tootie 6y ago
Greenwald is a lifelong sensationalist. His blog in the old days was extremely colorful and featured a lot of leaps of logic. It won him a fan base that included Ed Snowden. He's really a terrible journalist who just happened to get his hands on a treasure trove. The Guardian was part of the Snowden story as well and they don't publish garbage like the Biden laptop story with any undue credence.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  What is your reference for a good journalist? Your criticism sounds baseless to be honest. Sensationalism because he uncovered evidence of mass surveillance. Who is a better journalist?
  - sidibe 6y ago
    I remember reading an article by him about the Mali conflict a few years ago where it was so obvious he didn't know shit about what was happening there and was just using it to say West is Bad. It was rather supportive of the pre-ISIS that had taken over northern Mali and led me to believe his MO as a journalist is to start with his contrarian agenda and then look for ways to turn any event into supporting evidence (with rhetoric more than facts), more so than other journalists
    - seppin 6y ago
      Many on the left operate with "The US is to blame for all the world's problems" as their main worldview. Everything they report on is filtered through this prism. Greenwald is the de facto leader of this movement.
  - tootie 6y ago
    The NY Times exposed far more than Greenwald did. James Risen went to court to protect his sources in multiple occasions. And Risen works with a team and has the full support of his editors and employer. Greenwald is a journalistic berserker. He swings wildly and occasionally hits a target others can't get to. Really though it is my opinion based on observation.
dragonwriter 6y ago
Lots of people that are good with editors decline in quality when they become stars that are too big to listen to editors. That's not restricted to journalism, either.
noobermin 6y ago
Was he trying to pitch an actual story with new evidence and sources or just an op-ed? I agree with the general idea that having Greenwald resign sucks but I don't really know if there is any real evidence behind the Hunter Biden story beyond what is sort of already obvious.
rorykoehler 6y ago
The Biden story sounds like bs? I was under the impression that their alleged behaviour was the de facto standard in a capitalist system. I’d be surprised if anyone with that kind of power wasn’t leveraging it to secure generational wealth. It’s like athletes and doping. You’d be stupid not to try given the potential rewards.
- intended 6y ago
  From what I gather, the circumstances for the “laptop” to be obtained by a legally blind store an improbably large distance away from anywhere hunter Biden would be, is among the first of many red flags that this is a disinformation attempt. Part of it getting past scrutiny, is playing on the assumption that people will cheat. I mean sure, but this stupidly? After Trump used taxpayer money to stay at his hotels publicly?
  - techdevangelist 6y ago
    Add in they paid $85 for data recovery on 3 water logged Apple laptops... I’ve paid for data recovery services on drives, it’s a lot more than 85 bucks...
    - intended 6y ago
      What? $85 for data recovery? That's nuts. Side note: NBC broke a story broke a few hours ago showing that this was a case of false news. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-...
      - Amezarak 6y ago
        The NBC story is about a completely separate incident. It has nothing to do with the laptop. The contents of the laptop are not "fake news." At least one email has had its DKIM signature verified. Multiple people who were copied on the emails have verified their authenticity. The pictures and videos of Hunter Biden on the laptop speak for themselves. It is entirely possible that the story of how the laptop was acquired is at least partially fake, but there's no actual evidence of that, and some evidence pointing the other way - why would Biden's lawyer ask the computer shop owner for the laptop if he didn't have it, and Biden if Biden thought he didn't have it? This story is truly shocking to me, not so much for the allegations of corruption, which are neither surprising nor interesting, but for the willful blindness of so many very smart people who are using a lot of brainpower to rationalize it away.
Arainach 6y ago
A Pulitzer-winning journalist who grew more and more detached from reality as his worldview was overtaken by hatred for Hillary Clinton. Greenwald's emphasis here is completely unplaced. It is once again an attempt to make things seem equal. Unsubstantiated stories like this get no news time - and yet the fact that the opposite is undeniably true - Trump's children have not only been actively involved in the administration but have been coordinating deals for Trump's businesses, making millions of dollars, and even receiving international quid pro quo such as Chinese patent approvals - is ignored and treated as nothing. If Trump is anything less than an utter disaster, it's seen as a success. If the democratic nominee (Biden or Clinton before him) does anything less than perfect, it dominates the news cycle for weeks.
ritchiea 6y ago
Greenwald didn't have to do any work for the Snowden stories, Snowden approached Greenwald. And from my understanding, Snowden didn't approach Greenwald because he was the "best" journalist to break the story. Snowden had an existing relationship with Barton Gellman of the Washington Post who Snowden also leaked to. But Greenwald was willing to put an encrypted key in the leaks to help Snowden prove he was the leaker to foreign governments while seeking asylum, which Gellman wasn't willing to do. Then Greenwald parlayed having Snowden approach him into becoming a celebrity journalist. So Greenwald is a guy who takes a lot of credit for being in the right place at the right time and someone else handing him a scoop. Exactly the kind of person I wouldn't trust.
- harry8 6y ago
  no support for those assertions provided. Never heard /anything/ like that before. Color me suspicious, sure. But if you've got the supporting evidence I'll change my tune...
  - ritchiea 6y ago
    Listen to Barton Gellman on the Longform podcast or read his book.
    - spsful 6y ago
      Not to be crass but I think just throwing a book out doesn't help to give evidence-- I think they are looking for specific examples.
      - ritchiea 6y ago
        He/she said there isn’t evidence for what I was claiming, I told them where I got the info & where they can find it themselves. Couldn’t be a more straightforward interaction.
        harry8 6y ago
RIMR 6y ago
I have seen too many journalists gain a reputation for one story, and then ride that reputation into the ground, and while I still have a lot of respect for Greenwald, I feel like that's what I'm watching happen with him right now.

lliamander 6y ago

There absolutely is a "there" there. The DOJ has acknowledged that it has had a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden "and associates" for money laundering since 2019, and there is evidence and a credible witness that the Biden's (including Joe Biden) were involved in a bribery scheme with foreign governments. Just start here: https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/tony-bobulinksi-i-have-now-put-myself-in-huge-risk-for-the-sake-of-the-american-people https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/tony-bobulinksi-i-...

alisonkisk 6y ago
Sinclair is a self-admitted Republican media enterprise. The supposed witness is a Trump campaign member who has provided no evident except oral interviews on right-wing media.
- lliamander 6y ago
  Bobulinski is a member of the campaign? I've seen no evidence of that. Btw, he handed over phones with emails and documents to the FBI.
  - albinofrenchy 6y ago
    Is this not the guy who went to the presidential debate as a guest of Trump's?
    - lliamander 6y ago
      That does not make him a "member of the campaign". The dude is a centrist Democrat. He's pissed because the he was being smeared by association when Adam Schiff and others claimed the laptops contents was part of "Russian disinformation".

fredguth 6y ago

If you read Greenwald’s piece, you will understand why he disagrees with you. I, personally, credit his ethics more than I credit TheIntercept’s editor and this is why I immediately subscribed his substack.

Uhhrrr 6y ago

UPS confirms that the package was lost: https://www.thedailybeast.com/ups-confirms-mystery-tucker-carlson-package-disappeared-in-its-system?ref=home https://www.thedailybeast.com/ups-confirms-mystery-tucker-ca...

wrycoder 6y ago
UPS has found it again, per the Beast.
gitweb 6y ago
This story still sounds bizarre and like a load of BS. I wouldn't put it past a low level employee to confirm something has been found just to keep the suspense for the gullible alive, especially when the documents could have been scanned and encrypted.
ggggtez 6y ago
Don't be confused. Packages are lost, and found, every day. The real question is about what they claim to be the contents of the package. Which as of today, is still unknown. At this point, 4 days from the election, you should be especially skeptical of extraordinary claims without proof.

prawn 6y ago

Further, the NY Post struggled to find in-house writers that would put their name to the story because they weren't confident about the story's credibility. Of the two bylines, one found out after the fact. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-post-hunter-biden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-p...

refurb 6y ago

Even Fox News wouldn't run the story because it wasn't supported by facts. Run what story? Fox news has been covering the hard drive since it was released. And yes, no concrete evidence of wrong doing, but if you read Glenn's email, he clearly states that "something smells rotten" and the editors response is "we won't even allow pointed questions about Biden". Glenn is offering the Biden camp more benefit of the doubt than the MSM has offered Trump when random allegations arise. That's the issue - the MSM holds up "journalistic integrity" when it suits their political candidate. That's not integrity at all. That's just corruption of the what journalism is supposed to be.

chrisco255 6y ago
There was no concrete evidence of the Russia collusion bullshit and yet that dominated the airwaves for 3 years. The major news networks spent 3 years on a poorly conceived conspiracy theory.
- refurb 6y ago
  Precisely. The press was willing to run with a story that had little to no supporting evidence and in the end turned out to be false. Yet the tables are turned here and suddenly they have concerns about disinformation? To the point they won't even allow it to be discussed? That's what impresses me about Greenwald and Taibbi. They both hate Trump. But they aren't willing to put their journalistic ethics aside because of it.
  - spurgu 6y ago
    > That's what impresses me about Greenwald and Taibbi. They both hate Trump. But they aren't willing to put their journalistic ethics aside because of it. This is exactly why I decided to sub for Greenwald for $5/month on Substack.
afiori 6y ago
This especially applies so soon after Trump tax return story, which where objectively result of hacking (unless Trump himself leaked them) and had zero verification.

afiori 6y ago

Carlson never claimed that the evidence is now lost, just that it was stolen. IIRC he also did not claim that it was definitive evidence. Plausible motive for the thief could have been risk assessment for the documents.

ColanR 6y ago

Sounds like the UPS confirms there was a package and it got lost. https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-says-it-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-biden-claim-2020-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-says-it-lost-tucker-carl...

thu2111 6y ago

Tucker Carlson claims that his evidence "got lost in the mail" No he didn't - where did that come from? He claimed the mail had been intercepted, someone had ripped open the parcel in transit and stolen the documents, and that the courier firm had even shown them pictures of the ripped-open package. He then made a series of remarkably precise claims about their interaction with the courier, the search the courier firm mounted to try and find the stolen documents and so on. According to sibling comments this story was now confirmed in its entirety by UPS. Ironically, I learned what Tucker Carlson said by reading the Guardian. Their top story yesterday (in terms of views) was something like "Tucker Carlson mocked after claiming evidence was lost in the mail". Obviously the Guardian, and those people who mocked him or lied about his claims now look very foolish and naive indeed, because his claims have been verified in their entirety by the courier firm themselves. The real story here is that UPS has been corrupted by the same kinds of win-at-any-cost leftists who blocked the story at Twitter and other places: they are so desperate for this to go away that they're actually destroying their own customer's valuables in transit. In the USA every line of communication is being shut down by these radicals, even postal mail.

neilpointer 6y ago
and today the package has been found and Tucker is on air saying, "you know what? maybe we should lay off Hunter. After all, he's a troubled man." What's more likely: that Tucker is full of shit and never had the kind of story he claims he did, or that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS and were lying in wait to kill this story and any others like in before the election? The lengths people will go to find a conspiracy when there's a simpler explanation will always baffle me
- SamReidHughes 6y ago
  Like, he was obviously referring to the underage nudes and PornHub account, which don't directly reflect on his father's conduct. So yeah, there's stuff they're not going to air. > that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS You mean the Teamsters?
- thu2111 6y ago