5 ms·

No they're winning slowly. Fifteen years back everyone I know could easily download mp3 from various p2p applications. But now the present generation of youngst

No they're winning slowly. Fifteen years back everyone I know could easily download mp3 from various p2p applications. But now the present generation of youngsters seem to think it is Spotify/Amazon or nothing. They haven't even heard of p2p. Similarly Netflix is slowly eating away at torrenting. The platform owners can and will tighten the noose gradually. End users and hackers have much less power than they like to imagine, especially the latter segment.

syshum 6y ago
15 years back you had to buy a $20 CD to get access to 1 song you liked... Today for $9/mo (or nearly free with Amazon) you can listen to almost any song.... The lowering of costs, and easy access is what is driving lower use of p2p not RIAA lawsuits and more restrictions
- shaan7 6y ago
  Although I get your point, there is an important difference between those two though. Once you've bought the CD you can listen to it forever, that is not true for subscriptions - _that_ is why they are cheaper. I kinda use a hybrid - I discover new music on free tier of subscription services, and once I identify songs that I love, I buy them from iTunes DRM-free. I'm just afraid that option won't remain there forever.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    These streaming services are approaching the right price (digital media’s marginal cost is $0), but at the expense of user freedom to backup, time shift, collect, and use offline. Is $9/mo streaming better than $20 CDs? Maybe, maybe not. The higher quality product (DRM-free files you can store) is still free and unencumbered by usage rules.
  - maxfurman 6y ago
    You said it yourself - now you can pay $1 for 1 song and own it forever. Still a better deal than what we had back in the CD era.
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      I don’t think you own it, just a lifetime license (for you and X friends/« devices » sometimes). Depending on how extensions go, your children and grandchildren may have to re-pay to listen to your collection.
      - patagurbon 6y ago
        Amazon Music used to sell music DRM free, you could download it and do what you wanted with it. Not sure if that's still the case.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    CD's do break, and I'll tire of the music on it. Spotify is cheaper than a CD a month and provides a superior service than radio or music TV ever did. I have absolutely no need to own a piece of music. I'd start here about Spotify not paying artists enough. But honestly, the music industry - as a whole - has been screwing over artists for decades, at least, so it is pretty much same thing in a different dress. If I'm going to support musicians more directly, I'll head over to Bandcamp while still giving the artist listens on spotify if they have music there.
Vivtek 6y ago
But look, this is exactly because Spotify/Amazon/Netflix are responding to reality and providing media at a price point that reflects it. That's a desired outcome.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Not really, because Spotify/Amazon/Netflix aren't giving you media, they only rent it out to you. They can and do retroactively take away access to any piece of content, while keeping the money.
  - phjesusthatguy3 6y ago
    They're not renting media to you, they're selling you an access license to something they may or may not have at any given moment. Literally Nothing-as-a-Service.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- blfr 6y ago
  Will they keep providing the media like that once the threat from piracy is gone? Even right now most video platforms only offer the lowest quality to people on platforms free from DRM. I can easily get a 4k h265 video packed in mkv to play on my Linux laptop. I haven't tested lately but a while back Netflix would serve 720p max. Spotify has been very cool, going as far as delivering a .deb package and Ubuntu repo for their client. However, Rogan podcast doesn't work on Linux because it includes video. Will it before they go exclusive? Maybe, maybe not. I can easily youtube-dl the latest podcast and watch it on Linux.
  - kaszanka 6y ago
    > only offer the lowest quality to people on platforms free from DRM That's not correct, accessing their content at all still requires running malware like Widevine on your computer even on Linux.
- 6y ago
hyperpower 6y ago
If platforms tighten the noose, you'll see people gravitate back towards p2p. People stopped torrenting because Netflix and company made it extremely easy and more affordable to consume a wide range of media. Affordable enough that the hassle of torrenting was no longer worth it. If that changes, you'll see a resurgance.
- baq 6y ago
  i feel like we're one streaming service away from people becoming fed up with the whole idea and going back to torrents. having to pay for five subscriptions just to see the one show you want in each every quarter will be too much.
- feanaro 6y ago
  Also, people haven't stopped torrenting at all in many parts of the world.
- blfr 6y ago
  If platforms tighten the noose, you'll see people gravitate back towards p2p. Assuming there's something to go back to. General purpose computing has been limited by the rise of mobile. These devices are both limited by battery and CPU and more constrained in their abilities by tightly controlled operating systems. And yet surprisingly many young people don't have anything better. Most still have laptops but it's also not a great hardware platform for torrenting. Internet connections have been moving away from wires to more convenient but less spacious radio. And even wired connections are often degraded by carrier grade NATs. Now, the very tools for gathering content are under assault. We need to act because a free and open Internet is not one of the laws of physics and corporations are capable opponents.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
I thought torrentting was back on the uptick because of the increasing platform fragmentation?
KnobbleMcKnees 6y ago
But this boils down to convenience not prevention. It's so, so easy to get access to a million pieces of media through the accounts your parents or siblings already have. Further those services provide specific family plans to make it even easier again. As gaben said, "Piracy is almost always a service problem".
avh02 6y ago
ah, with netflix i believe it _was_ going well... but we're getting to a point (with disney+, etc and moving content) where it's fragmenting again to the point where I don't want to pay $50 for 4-6 different services to watch whatever I want. I think that'll be the return of either torrenting, or the casual pooling of subscription services between people.
corobo 6y ago
Spotify and Netflix offered an easier alternative to piracy. I've heard a few people mentioning there's so many video services to sign up to now that they're back to flying the internet jolly roger having cancelled them all. If any big exclusive content music services pop up we'll be right back on the pirate bay for everything again

syshum 6y ago

15 years back you had to buy a $20 CD to get access to 1 song you liked... Today for $9/mo (or nearly free with Amazon) you can listen to almost any song.... The lowering of costs, and easy access is what is driving lower use of p2p not RIAA lawsuits and more restrictions

shaan7 6y ago
Although I get your point, there is an important difference between those two though. Once you've bought the CD you can listen to it forever, that is not true for subscriptions - _that_ is why they are cheaper. I kinda use a hybrid - I discover new music on free tier of subscription services, and once I identify songs that I love, I buy them from iTunes DRM-free. I'm just afraid that option won't remain there forever.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  These streaming services are approaching the right price (digital media’s marginal cost is $0), but at the expense of user freedom to backup, time shift, collect, and use offline. Is $9/mo streaming better than $20 CDs? Maybe, maybe not. The higher quality product (DRM-free files you can store) is still free and unencumbered by usage rules.
- maxfurman 6y ago
  You said it yourself - now you can pay $1 for 1 song and own it forever. Still a better deal than what we had back in the CD era.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    I don’t think you own it, just a lifetime license (for you and X friends/« devices » sometimes). Depending on how extensions go, your children and grandchildren may have to re-pay to listen to your collection.
    - patagurbon 6y ago
      Amazon Music used to sell music DRM free, you could download it and do what you wanted with it. Not sure if that's still the case.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  CD's do break, and I'll tire of the music on it. Spotify is cheaper than a CD a month and provides a superior service than radio or music TV ever did. I have absolutely no need to own a piece of music. I'd start here about Spotify not paying artists enough. But honestly, the music industry - as a whole - has been screwing over artists for decades, at least, so it is pretty much same thing in a different dress. If I'm going to support musicians more directly, I'll head over to Bandcamp while still giving the artist listens on spotify if they have music there.

Vivtek 6y ago

But look, this is exactly because Spotify/Amazon/Netflix are responding to reality and providing media at a price point that reflects it. That's a desired outcome.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Not really, because Spotify/Amazon/Netflix aren't giving you media, they only rent it out to you. They can and do retroactively take away access to any piece of content, while keeping the money.
- phjesusthatguy3 6y ago
  They're not renting media to you, they're selling you an access license to something they may or may not have at any given moment. Literally Nothing-as-a-Service.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
blfr 6y ago
Will they keep providing the media like that once the threat from piracy is gone? Even right now most video platforms only offer the lowest quality to people on platforms free from DRM. I can easily get a 4k h265 video packed in mkv to play on my Linux laptop. I haven't tested lately but a while back Netflix would serve 720p max. Spotify has been very cool, going as far as delivering a .deb package and Ubuntu repo for their client. However, Rogan podcast doesn't work on Linux because it includes video. Will it before they go exclusive? Maybe, maybe not. I can easily youtube-dl the latest podcast and watch it on Linux.
- kaszanka 6y ago
  > only offer the lowest quality to people on platforms free from DRM That's not correct, accessing their content at all still requires running malware like Widevine on your computer even on Linux.
6y ago

hyperpower 6y ago

If platforms tighten the noose, you'll see people gravitate back towards p2p. People stopped torrenting because Netflix and company made it extremely easy and more affordable to consume a wide range of media. Affordable enough that the hassle of torrenting was no longer worth it. If that changes, you'll see a resurgance.

baq 6y ago
i feel like we're one streaming service away from people becoming fed up with the whole idea and going back to torrents. having to pay for five subscriptions just to see the one show you want in each every quarter will be too much.
feanaro 6y ago
Also, people haven't stopped torrenting at all in many parts of the world.
blfr 6y ago
If platforms tighten the noose, you'll see people gravitate back towards p2p. Assuming there's something to go back to. General purpose computing has been limited by the rise of mobile. These devices are both limited by battery and CPU and more constrained in their abilities by tightly controlled operating systems. And yet surprisingly many young people don't have anything better. Most still have laptops but it's also not a great hardware platform for torrenting. Internet connections have been moving away from wires to more convenient but less spacious radio. And even wired connections are often degraded by carrier grade NATs. Now, the very tools for gathering content are under assault. We need to act because a free and open Internet is not one of the laws of physics and corporations are capable opponents.

Dirlewanger 6y ago

I thought torrentting was back on the uptick because of the increasing platform fragmentation?

KnobbleMcKnees 6y ago

But this boils down to convenience not prevention. It's so, so easy to get access to a million pieces of media through the accounts your parents or siblings already have. Further those services provide specific family plans to make it even easier again. As gaben said, "Piracy is almost always a service problem".

avh02 6y ago

ah, with netflix i believe it _was_ going well... but we're getting to a point (with disney+, etc and moving content) where it's fragmenting again to the point where I don't want to pay $50 for 4-6 different services to watch whatever I want. I think that'll be the return of either torrenting, or the casual pooling of subscription services between people.

corobo 6y ago

Spotify and Netflix offered an easier alternative to piracy. I've heard a few people mentioning there's so many video services to sign up to now that they're back to flying the internet jolly roger having cancelled them all. If any big exclusive content music services pop up we'll be right back on the pirate bay for everything again