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Sadly I think far too many people will not evaluate the Green New Deal on it's actual merits and instead write it off because Bernie Sanders, AOC, and others ha

Sadly I think far too many people will not evaluate the Green New Deal on it's actual merits and instead write it off because Bernie Sanders, AOC, and others have written/supported it. The strife and division we are seeing in the US will be a significant impact to climate action. We've already seen its impact on something as simple as mask wearing becoming politicized and difficult to coordinate on.

defterGoose 6y ago
I can only hope that those driving the division (older people) will be dead soon, so that the younger generations who are by and large more eco-friendly can get on with the difficult work that needs to be done. Its past time for the old, rotten way of thinking to be plowed under.
- lefrenchy 6y ago
  I'm not entirely convinced older people are driving the division.
  - defterGoose 6y ago
    The average age of congressional representatives is roughly 60, and has been creeping up for 40 years. Im not sure how to not analyze that as a problem with ideological stagnation. Additionally, people from younger generations never experienced the relative boom period of the 50s and 60s so there's not as much dogmatic inertia there.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    I think the split is among party lines. The closer to the political right you go the more resistance against solutions of climate change you're going to see at any age group. Trump is pretty much the poster child but not because he is old, it's simply because he is a republican.
  - ihm 6y ago
    Yeah, it's a class conflict and class/wealth is correlated with age. Bernie (who is old last I checked) being one of the biggest supporters gives the lie to this.
- okr 6y ago
  Aha. What is old for you and what is young? (Younger generations eco-friendly? That must be a joke. My parents do even unplug devices at night to save energy.)
- ihm 6y ago
  The interests opposed to actual change are the oil+coal industry most obviously, but also the rich more generally who are opposed to the redistribution which is necessary to make real climate action politically viable. (We will need to reduce certain forms of carbon-intensive production, and without wealth redistribution to compensate for that, the resulting society will be unstable.) Unfortunately we can't wait for the coal industry or the rich to die, they reproduce themselves.
  - lopmotr 6y ago
    There are also people, like myself, who just don't like the negativity of it all. We want progress and not regression but are told to use less of this, do less of that, ban this, ban that. But most importantly, stop looking forward to a brighter future for humanity. We should move backwards, not forwards. Destroy what we've created and make the future worse than the present because good things are bad, like puritanism. For optimistic people, this is just painful. For hopeless aimless people, it might give them a sense of something to fight for.
    - ihm 6y ago
      Totally agree. That’s the idea the Green New Deal tries to articulate. The book “A Planet to Win”[0] describes a detailed vision of how we can come out of a transition off fossil fuels as a stronger, more prosperous society. To quote some reviews “the tone of the book is urgent and pragmatic. It's also refreshingly optimistic and future-oriented, filled with specific ideas.... Their portrait of a planet transformed by the [Green New Deal] is designed to spark that effort." And "its optimism is inspiring....The authors’ battle-ready tone on this score breaks with the often moralistic and soul-searching mode of some of the higher-profile climate books of the last few years." [0]: https://www.versobooks.com/books/3107-a-planet-to-win https://www.versobooks.com/books/3107-a-planet-to-win
- picodguyo 6y ago
  "Older people" is a renewable resource. I've been surprised by how much more conservative my older relatives have become as they've aged.
- lopmotr 6y ago
  What an arrogant statement. When old and young disagree on a political issue, you assume the old are wrong? Why? Is there some fact they don't know? Have they not thought through all the correct chains of causation, whereas you have? Of course not. They might turn out to be right. You can't assume you're right just because all your peers agree with you and the outsider group is wrong because that's not the group you belong to. I know a child who's afraid of climate change. Not in a political way but afraid of drowning in high sea water or her house being destroyed by the weather or something like that. Her grandmother reassured her that it's all blown out of proportion and people will manage to cope just fine. Who's right - old or young? Don't pretend you know the answer because you don't. Nobody does.
  - defterGoose 6y ago
    Or maybe I'm completely right and you're just making ad hominem attacks because you can't deal with the fact that there are people who rightfully fear that the basic underpinnings of life are being threatened? Can i ask how old you are? Because in my experience, age correlates strongly with a tendency to look inward towards oneself rather than outwards towards the problems in the world. You seem threatened by pessimism. I see it as a tool.

defterGoose 6y ago

I can only hope that those driving the division (older people) will be dead soon, so that the younger generations who are by and large more eco-friendly can get on with the difficult work that needs to be done. Its past time for the old, rotten way of thinking to be plowed under.

lefrenchy 6y ago
I'm not entirely convinced older people are driving the division.
- defterGoose 6y ago
  The average age of congressional representatives is roughly 60, and has been creeping up for 40 years. Im not sure how to not analyze that as a problem with ideological stagnation. Additionally, people from younger generations never experienced the relative boom period of the 50s and 60s so there's not as much dogmatic inertia there.
- imtringued 6y ago
  I think the split is among party lines. The closer to the political right you go the more resistance against solutions of climate change you're going to see at any age group. Trump is pretty much the poster child but not because he is old, it's simply because he is a republican.
- ihm 6y ago
  Yeah, it's a class conflict and class/wealth is correlated with age. Bernie (who is old last I checked) being one of the biggest supporters gives the lie to this.
okr 6y ago
Aha. What is old for you and what is young? (Younger generations eco-friendly? That must be a joke. My parents do even unplug devices at night to save energy.)
ihm 6y ago
The interests opposed to actual change are the oil+coal industry most obviously, but also the rich more generally who are opposed to the redistribution which is necessary to make real climate action politically viable. (We will need to reduce certain forms of carbon-intensive production, and without wealth redistribution to compensate for that, the resulting society will be unstable.) Unfortunately we can't wait for the coal industry or the rich to die, they reproduce themselves.
- lopmotr 6y ago
  There are also people, like myself, who just don't like the negativity of it all. We want progress and not regression but are told to use less of this, do less of that, ban this, ban that. But most importantly, stop looking forward to a brighter future for humanity. We should move backwards, not forwards. Destroy what we've created and make the future worse than the present because good things are bad, like puritanism. For optimistic people, this is just painful. For hopeless aimless people, it might give them a sense of something to fight for.
  - ihm 6y ago
    Totally agree. That’s the idea the Green New Deal tries to articulate. The book “A Planet to Win”[0] describes a detailed vision of how we can come out of a transition off fossil fuels as a stronger, more prosperous society. To quote some reviews “the tone of the book is urgent and pragmatic. It's also refreshingly optimistic and future-oriented, filled with specific ideas.... Their portrait of a planet transformed by the [Green New Deal] is designed to spark that effort." And "its optimism is inspiring....The authors’ battle-ready tone on this score breaks with the often moralistic and soul-searching mode of some of the higher-profile climate books of the last few years." [0]: https://www.versobooks.com/books/3107-a-planet-to-win https://www.versobooks.com/books/3107-a-planet-to-win
picodguyo 6y ago
"Older people" is a renewable resource. I've been surprised by how much more conservative my older relatives have become as they've aged.
lopmotr 6y ago
What an arrogant statement. When old and young disagree on a political issue, you assume the old are wrong? Why? Is there some fact they don't know? Have they not thought through all the correct chains of causation, whereas you have? Of course not. They might turn out to be right. You can't assume you're right just because all your peers agree with you and the outsider group is wrong because that's not the group you belong to. I know a child who's afraid of climate change. Not in a political way but afraid of drowning in high sea water or her house being destroyed by the weather or something like that. Her grandmother reassured her that it's all blown out of proportion and people will manage to cope just fine. Who's right - old or young? Don't pretend you know the answer because you don't. Nobody does.
- defterGoose 6y ago
  Or maybe I'm completely right and you're just making ad hominem attacks because you can't deal with the fact that there are people who rightfully fear that the basic underpinnings of life are being threatened? Can i ask how old you are? Because in my experience, age correlates strongly with a tendency to look inward towards oneself rather than outwards towards the problems in the world. You seem threatened by pessimism. I see it as a tool.