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CCP must not go unpunished. The world needs to stand up to their lone wolf style. If we do not stand up against CCP now it will only embolden the evil. Vote wit

CCP must not go unpunished. The world needs to stand up to their lone wolf style. If we do not stand up against CCP now it will only embolden the evil. Vote with your wallets. Avoid buying China made products. Pressure/ Make laws for retailers to enforce Country of Origin information for each and every product especially Amazon. Amazon is flooded with cheap Chinese products almost certainly made in inhumane conditions. CCP and Xi Jinping must not be emboldened any further.

kepler1 6y ago
As long as 95% of the people in the US keep on buying items with their wallets open, and we're distracted with our own internal strife, what hope is there to counter this? Our leadership certainly isn't up to standing against this sort of thing these days.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  Addressing indiviuals for group behaviour is bullshit. It's pointless. Actions that address the result of group behaviour need to come from the group (government). All else is just grandstanding.
- Hydraulix989 6y ago
  Say what you want about Trump, who is a completely disgusting individual, but I have seen more progress this presidential term in this regard than ever before.
  - eloff 6y ago
    You're getting down-voted because trump derangement syndrome. But it's true. No President has taken a harder line on China and the CCP. If you're in the US and you want to do something about the CCP, probably the most effective thing you could do is vote Trump. And I'm saying this as liberal who can't stand Trump. If that's effective for the long-term future and prosperity of the US, which is also important to counter the CCP - I don't know.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      As a leftist, who hates biden AND trump (almost equally) and voted green but almost voted Biden (i'm not in a swing state), I see Trump as a catalyst for change, I wanted him to win to unite people on the left to move more left, and upturn neoliberalism (looks like it's working), however - I'm changing my tune a tiny bit, namely because of covid and how that's going down. I don't think Trump can handle fixing this, and I honestly think we're in over our heads as it is. We really need UBI, stimulus, healthcare reform, and as much as I hate to say it Biden is the closest we get to that. But, vote who you feel is good and safe, I voted green. I'm not gonna vote shame anyone. Just when you vote think about all that's coming : Global Warming, Water Wars (already started in Mexico), Droughts, More Fires, Covid, Covid part 2, Income inequality raised a factor or two, joblessness, homelessness for millions, protests, uprisings, etc... Next two decades will make or break us. TLDR: Trump probably would be best against china, and if that were the only issue facing us, it might be good enough reason to go against the grain, but there's so much shit hitting the fan now, maybe we do need change.
      - throw51319 6y ago
        What kind of fool would vote 3rd party in an election with the gravity of this one? This isn't the time to make some symbolic stand, it's time to vote Trump out - if that's what you believe in.
        spaetzleesser 6y ago
        I am making a stand to not support either of the corrupt big parties in the US. I can't vote for one guy only because the other guy is bad. The democrats should have put up a candidate people actually want to vote for. They didn't do that either in 2016 or 2020. Not being Trump is not a good program.
        eloff 6y ago
        Do the Democratic party have their collective heads in the sand? What were they thinking putting forward Biden. If they lose this election it's because they threw it. All they had to do was field anyone in good health (Biden isn't) who wasn't widely detested and they would have had it in the bag. The party system in the US leaves so much to be desired.
  - whack 6y ago
    > President Donald Trump expressed approval of a concentration camp for Uighur Muslims in China during a private meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, according to former national security adviser John Bolton's upcoming memoir > Xi "explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang," Bolton wrote, citing the interpreter's account. The interpreter added that "Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do," according to the book. > Bolton also wrote in the book that Matthew Pottinger, a retired US Marine and the current deputy national security adviser, "told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China." https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-xinjiang-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-x... Make no mistake about it, Trump's anti-China rhetoric arises purely out of Xenophobia, not concern for Uighurs or human rights.
    - tim333 6y ago
      Still at least he's started the ball rolling on anti China tariffs and the like.
    - adventured 6y ago
      Somehow a war-lusting psychopath like Bolton is trustworthy, as he pushes a book out of a vendetta for having been fired? This is the same Bolton who publicly declared that the single biggest mistake of the Trump presidency was not launching a war against Iran (a war that would kill a million people most likely). The same Bolton who has never shown a problem with aggressively supporting lies, like the foundational lies used for the Iraq war, of which he was a big proponent. There is very little from someone like Bolton that can be trusted directly - which also doesn't mean everything he said about Trump is false, it means there is inherently a severe credibility problem with anything he says.
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      Biden has been pro-China throughout the entirety of his political career. As Senator he voted yes to give China permanent normal trade status, stating: > [Our course is clear. China's growing participation in the international community over the past quarter century has been marked by growing adherence to international norms in the areas of trade, security, and human rights.](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRECB-2000-pt13-Pg18331-7.htm)[Some https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRE... of our colleagues disagree on this point. They would have preferred that the China trade bill be turned into an omnibus China Policy Act. I understand their objectives and their frustration with the slow pace of reform in China. But amendments offered by Senator Smith of New Hampshire--covering such diverse issues as POW/MIA cooperation, forced labor, organ harvesting, etc.--and Senator Wellstone of Minnesota--conditioning PNTR on substantial progress toward the release of all political prisoners in China--pile too much onto this legislation. Moreover, those amendments would effectively hold the trade legislation hostage to changes in China which passing the trade bill would promote. This seems backwards to me.](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRECB-2000-pt13-Pg18331-7.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRE...) Biden later lobbied to grant most-favored-nation trade status and World Trade Organization membership to China: > [In the critical fight over whether to grant most-favored-nation trade status and World Trade Organization membership to China in the 1990s — a fight in which, again, many of his party’s leaders in Congress were on the right side — Biden carefully shepherded China through the process from his powerful perch as the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Wherever a brake might have been applied — by placing human-rights or labor conditions on most-favored-nation status, for example — Biden voted the measures down and lobbied other senators for Beijing. Unfortunately, China and Biden got their way, and American workers are still suffering from it.](https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/joe-biden-is-chinas-choice-for-president/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/joe-biden-is-chinas-c...) As Vice President: > ["In order to cement this robust partnership, we have to go beyond close ties between Washington and Beijing, which we’re working on every day, go beyond it to include all levels of government, go beyond it to include classrooms and laboratories, athletic fields and boardrooms."](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > ["Already, we have made thousands of new items available for export to China for exclusive civilian use that were not available before, and tens of thousands of more items will become available very soon. That’s a significant change in our export policy and a rejection of those voices in America that say we should not export that kind of technology to – for civilian use in – China. We disagree, and we’re changing."](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > ["I believed in 1979 and said so and I believe now that a rising China is a positive development, not only for the people of China but for the United States and the world as a whole." He continues: “it is in our self-interest that China continues to prosper” and retained hope “a rising China will fuel economic growth and prosperity and it will bring to the fore a new partner with whom we can meet global challenges together.”](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > [Vice President Biden convinced China's vice president to agree to a deal that would unlock new fortunes for Hollywood. Biden asked Xi Jinping to relax China's quota of allowing only 20 foreign films to be shown at a time and to increase distribution fees for Hollywood firms.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/02/how-biden-helped-hollywood-unlock-china/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/02...) > [In 2013, the Obama administration allowed Chinese companies to invest in U.S. capital markets without having their books inspected by U.S. regulators, after meetings between Chinese officials and Biden.](https://epochtimes.today/where-biden-trump-stand-on-the-chinese-communist-party/ https://epochtimes.today/where-biden-trump-stand-on-the-chin...) As Presidential Candidate: > [In 2019, Biden boasts about having spent more time with Xi Jinping than any other world leader, and that China wasn't a competitior to the United States. "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man," Biden said at the time. "They're not bad folks, folks. But guess what? They're not competition for us."](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-trump-mischaracterizes-our-relationship-with-china https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-trump-mischara...) > [Biden Says He Will End Trump’s Tariffs On Chinese-Made Goods](https://news.yahoo.com/said-trumps-ideas-good-one-153901834.html https://news.yahoo.com/said-trumps-ideas-good-one-153901834....)
- WillPostForFood 6y ago
  People want the information, and if they had it many would adjust their buying behavior. I see the "where is this made" question on Amazon products all the time. Even if it didn't make a difference, having the manufacturing origin, and shipping origin clearly labeled would be a good start. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+is+this+made%22&oq=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+is+this+made%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.10591j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+i...
  - aphextron 6y ago
    Information doesn't matter when you have no other choice. There's practically zero affordable consumer products still made in the US or Europe. Just try finding any form of electronic made outside of Asia. It's nonexistent.
    - spinny 6y ago
      Chy-na imports a large portion of it's food supply, and the recent floods have destroy a large portion of it's own supply. people don't eat consumer electronics.
- ordo_inf 6y ago
  Not just the US, China exports stuff everywhere. I think this can be mitigated by making planned obsolescence illegal and somehow forcing companies to maximize quality. We don't need crappy pens, toys, electronics, etc... I don't know about you, but I'm personally happy to own one ballpoint pen that'll last me for 20 years (and only have to refill it from time to time). If anything, just to not see some poor guy work as a slave (long work-days, minimum pay, suicide nets). Right now you can just go purchase 10x crappy pens that easily break and dry out for around €2, whyyyy?
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crispyporkbites 6y ago
Any Amazon engineers want to comment on why a country of origin flag is not on every product? Has this been discussed internally at Amazon?
- TheKarateKid 6y ago
  Probably because it only serves to hurt their sales. Amazon has also become almost as bad as Alibaba in allowing counterfeit and knockoff items to be sold openly.
  - crispyporkbites 6y ago
    Wouldn’t it push people to higher cost and higher margin products (locally made or from more ethical sources) and thereby increase their profits? Seems to me like you could make a strong case for it
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    At least with Alibaba you're going right to the source and not paying some reseller's markup or for the 'free' Prime shipping that just gets baked into prices on Amazon.
- pjc50 6y ago
  That would cost Amazon money. Besides, the rules around country of origin are complicated, and some countries have product description law about this. And what's to stop Amazon sellers sticking fake country of origin on, as they can already do for CE marking? Or the reverse: Amazon stick a China flag on iPhones. Apple are going to get extremely upset about this and sue/offer money to change that to a US flag. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act may make it illegal to force Israeli sellers to identify their country of origin.
  - juiyout 6y ago
    Amazon could do A-B tests on this. This might just earn them more money instead.
blub 6y ago
Are you posting from 30 years ago? Because of the greed and stupidity of Western governments and companies it is literally impossible to avoid buying China made products.
- eloff 6y ago
  The monster we created. You can say all you want about the mistakes and dirty actions of the USA-led world since the end of the second world war, but you're delusional if you think a CCP led world order would be an improvement.
  - ddelt 6y ago
    > " ... if you think a CCP led world world order would be an improvement." I don't think the parent comment suggested anything like what you just said. And I agree with that parent comment, in that I find it amusing mental-floss to imagine how a very-low income family in the US can completely avoid Chinese made products.
    - eloff 6y ago
      I'm using "you" to refer to the reader, not the OP. English can be confusing at times.
      - sarakayakomzin 6y ago
        > I'm using "you" to refer to the reader, not the OP. English can be confusing at times. and no "you" 'the reader' would be dumb enough to interpret the statement like you have. Communication can be confusing at times.
      - segfaultbuserr 6y ago
        I learned to say "one" instead of "you".
        eloff 6y ago
Canada 6y ago
It's "wolf warrior". Avoiding Chinese made products isn't a practical solution. Contract manufacturing needs to move elsewhere.
- fuck_red_china 6y ago
  We ought to have been making very good friends in South America and Africa starting about ten years ago. We need to catch up very quickly now. They can both replace Red China for cheap labor and keep her from gaining influence in the developing world.
tim333 6y ago
A few individuals buying less stuff isn't going to have much effect. We need something more like the west putting 50% tariffs on Chinese products so all the manufacturing starts moving to other countries. That would probably get their attention.
- hcurtiss 6y ago
  There’s a lot to not like about Trump, but he’s literally the only one in 50 years who’s been willing to play for keeps on Chinese tariffs. And he’s been raked over the coals for it.
  - ansible 6y ago
    And accomplished jack-all. The real problem is not China producing cheap steel, but human rights abuses, and censorship. 45 hasn't done anything about that.
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done to stand up to China. I challenge everyone to name a single person (or country, or continent) who’s done more than him. - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to move their manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, Taiwan, etc. (Biden admittedly said he would end Trump’s China tariffs, but the many companies that already left are unlikely to return), and even high end tech such as the iPhone is starting to get assembled outside China as well. - He was the first US President to speak directly with Taiwan's President since 1979. - He made the largest arms sale to Taiwan in the past few decades. - The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and the Hong Kong Autonomy Act were signed under his administration. - The TAIPEI Act was signed under his administration. - The Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act was singed under his administration. - Meng Wanzhou was arrested under his administration (which dragged Canada into it because China decided to arbitrarily arrest Canadian citizens). - China Mobile was blocked from offering services in the US, citing national security risks. - Huawei was blocked from using Android and chips with US tech (which will effectively kill their mobiles once their stock runs out). - Huawei was blocked from building 5G networks (USA paid other nations to block them as well). - Hong Kong’s special status was revoked. - Universal Postal Union agreed to let countries raise postal rates after Trump threatened to leave - this means you’ll no longer be able to buy cheap junk from Aliexpress (and resellers like Wish) at no shipping cost (the receiving country was previously forced to deliver the products for free, even if you brought some toy for 10 cents). - Trump is pushing for WTO to drop China’s developing country status. - TikTok and WeChat (likely with more to come) would’ve been blocked by now if it wasn’t for judges temporarily blocking the bans. There's a reason China's GDP growth in 2019 was the lowest it's been since 1990, and there's a reason China's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low. That reason is Trump. It's also no surprise that all the nations that suffer the most from CCP's actions, such as Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc. tend to be pro-Trump.
Devils-Avocado 6y ago
Chinese influence runs deeper than manufacturing. Politicians across the West (or sons of politicians) have sold themselves to various Chinese interests. No need to invade the USA when you can just buy off a vice-president's son for $5million, for example.
- ardit33 6y ago
  or have a current president with a hidden bank account and forward some 17mil to him when he gets elected...
  - hcurtiss 6y ago
    The CCP gave Trump $17 million? That’s a new one.
    - ansible 6y ago
      He's paid taxes on... something. If he was just persuing licencing deals, but didn't land any, you'd think there would be no income tax that needs to be paid in China.
    - onei 6y ago
      The account apparently had some millions deposited into in and then withdrawn quickly after. It's not entirely clear who or where that money came from in the first place.
      - hcurtiss 6y ago
        He indicated in the debate that was all before his candidacy. Is there reason to believe that’s not true?
        question000 6y ago
        Because Trump lied about nearly everything related to his finances for decades and has openly admitted that his followers are just gullible and will forgive him for it, so he doesn't care. A cursory google search reveals this to be true and to his credit Trump is very open about his lying. "My net worth is just a function of how I feel at the time" and "I could shoot someone on fifth avenue and people would still support me." Are statements he's stood by and never apologized for in anyway.
throw_m239339 6y ago
> CCP must not go unpunished. The CCP already went unpunished with the Tibetans. Very few people in the west cared and it was before China became member of the WTO. The current administration tried to impose tariffs on China which were deemed illegal by the WTO. Maybe the west should have cared BEFORE welcoming China in the WTO.
- Diesel555 6y ago
  Yes, but arguing we didn’t already do something so we shouldn’t start now isn’t right. I know that isn’t your point, and agreed on the WTO. As a mass we will never sacrifice a 10% cheaper product to stop inhumanities. We need to elect officials who will handle that via economics. I’ve always been a fan of taxing Chinese imports to offset this factor. If only we can just keep partisan politics out of the discussions as the taxes on Chinese products were immediately bashed based on the person who implemented it. We need to look at the decision itself to evaluate it, not the party that made the decision. We can disagree with most of a party’s decisions but if you find you hate 100% of them you are likely applying a bias to something that may be good. Check out Crouching Tiger. It’s a great modern book that includes how we are buying/trading our way into losing the next war.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    There will never be a hot war between China and the US. Or if there is, it'll be the end of the world so it doesn't matter. Two nuclear triad powers simply can't fight directly.
    - blonde_ocean 6y ago
      Why not?
- agent00f 6y ago
  Tibet really is the perfect case study for US agitprop. The typical audience for this material literally know nothing about the region outside of state dept/cia pr. For example, the Lamas ran a feudal theocracy but get played up like disney characters. I guess those are only supposed to be bad to the atheists here if it's scary Muslims. Or how it's portrayed as some invasion about as much as the union "invaded" the confederacy. It's also a perfect illustration of how otherwise supposedly intelligent people in tech are just as easily manipulate outside their area of expertise as the fox news audience.
cheese_van 6y ago
Xi Jinping has a constituency and to a degree opaque to the West, that constituency provides his mandate. Discomfit the constituency, the princes and princelings, in their pockets, and that mandate might be withdrawn. That revolution will be messy, but it's needed.
- agent00f 6y ago
  Thanks for at least admitting the goal is regime change, same as for the "Arab spring" which has left much of that region as failed states. It's always amusing when people who cause the most misery in the world shout the loudest about human rights and such.
  - newen 6y ago
    Scream for the blood of their enemies while calling them sinners. It’s as old as time.
phobosanomaly 6y ago
Unfortunately, I don't see that the West, and the United States in particular, is in a position to do anything in the near future. China seems to know that. They have by-and-large solved their Coronavirus problem months ago (with some pretty draconian methods), but the West is still reeling. The US is heading into a pretty contentious election, nobody is sure whether or not we're on the brink of a recession, international diplomatic relationships are in tatters. If the CCP took Taiwan right now, I don't see the US lifting a finger.
- FindMySocks 6y ago
  I've heard people chime in that China used Draconian methods to contain COVID, but what Draconian methods did they use?
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    "How China Slowed Coronavirus: Lockdowns, Surveillance, Enforcers" https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-slowed-coronavirus-lockdowns-surveillance-enforcers-11583868093 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-slowed-coronavirus-lo... "China, Desperate to Stop Coronavirus, Turns Neighbor Against Neighbor" https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/business/china-coronavirus-wuhan-surveillance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/business/china-coronaviru...
    - franklampard 6y ago
      Which part is "Draconian"?
      - phobosanomaly 6y ago
        I guess that's relatively subjective, and depends on what you or I feel is draconian. I might feel something is a little over-the-top, but you might feel it's just fine. You might feel something is a little over-the-top, but I might feel it's just fine. So, I guess my only answer would be that you would have to read the articles and decide for yourself. You may have a different tolerance for the techniques described than I do. "In the eastern province of Jiangsu, quarantine turned to imprisonment after authorities used metal poles to barricade shut the door of a family recently returned from Wuhan." "Authorities have used computerized systems that track ID cards — which must be used to take most long-distance transport and stay in hotels — to round up people from Wuhan." For example, I find this to be a bit much. I do, however concede that it works. You may be perfectly fine with it. I find the prison camps in Xinjiang to be a little draconian. Plenty of other people feel that it's a wonderful idea.
agent00f 6y ago
So what's the punishment for a people whose national pastime is bombing brown/yellow counties and actually killing millions? Before anyone starts crowing whataboutism, I'm just curious what their standards are for themselves. There seems to be none, and this is just typical political grandstanding missing much integrity or character.
totalZero 6y ago
We don't have to punish them. We just have to stop enriching them.
Haga 6y ago
Vote for politicians who make politics instead of privatizing problems?
berdario 6y ago
The US must not go unpunished. The world needs to stand up to their lone wolf style. If we do not stand up against the US now it will only embolden the evil. Vote with your wallets. Avoid using US made products and services. Pressure/ Make laws for retailers to enforce Country of Origin information for each and every product. The web is flooded with services made in the US that spread their propaganda (antivax and QAnon started in the anglosphere) made to keep their population feeble and powerless (some of them even die because they cannot afford insuline). The US, Trump and their 2 party system must not be emboldened any further.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  Stop whitewashing China's crimes. The US and the rest of the West's abuses are no where near the level of the Chinese government's.
  - berdario 6y ago
    China didn't drop the nuke on harmless civilians, the US did. China didn't displace tens of millions of people in the middle east from their homes, the US did. China didn't destabilize dozen of countries (via assassinations, coups, and other unsavory ways to initiate regime change), the US did. There's one threat to world peace, and that's the US. It's ridiculous that people think that somehow China could be worse than that.
    - _-david-_ 6y ago
      Mao killed tens of millions of people which is significantly more than US nukes. China destabilized Korea, Vietnam and other countries in the area. Are seriously suggesting they didn't want regime changes in those countries? Many of those people were displaced. The US under Trump is actually starting to pull out of the Middle East. While bad things happened the US is at least stopping it. China is continuing their aggression towards minorities in their country.
      - berdario 6y ago
Khaine 6y ago
You are absolutely correct. The CCP gains legitimacy from brining prosperity to the Chinese people. This prosperity is off the back of human rights violations, bullying other countries and corporate espionage. It is time we boycotted China. The whole world must turn its back on China to show this behaviour is not acceptable. It may hurt in the short term, but will benefit all of humanity in the long term.
- franklampard 6y ago
  "This prosperity is off the back of human rights violations, bullying other countries and corporate espionage" - USA?
cercatrova 6y ago
What a strange decree. States don't punish or get punished for moralistic reasons. It's like saying we should punish Alexander the Great. It's all a part of history, he was a terrible person for ravaging the land but we celebrate him today. There are no morals in empire building.

kepler1 6y ago

As long as 95% of the people in the US keep on buying items with their wallets open, and we're distracted with our own internal strife, what hope is there to counter this? Our leadership certainly isn't up to standing against this sort of thing these days.

apexalpha 6y ago
Addressing indiviuals for group behaviour is bullshit. It's pointless. Actions that address the result of group behaviour need to come from the group (government). All else is just grandstanding.
Hydraulix989 6y ago
Say what you want about Trump, who is a completely disgusting individual, but I have seen more progress this presidential term in this regard than ever before.
- eloff 6y ago
  You're getting down-voted because trump derangement syndrome. But it's true. No President has taken a harder line on China and the CCP. If you're in the US and you want to do something about the CCP, probably the most effective thing you could do is vote Trump. And I'm saying this as liberal who can't stand Trump. If that's effective for the long-term future and prosperity of the US, which is also important to counter the CCP - I don't know.
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    As a leftist, who hates biden AND trump (almost equally) and voted green but almost voted Biden (i'm not in a swing state), I see Trump as a catalyst for change, I wanted him to win to unite people on the left to move more left, and upturn neoliberalism (looks like it's working), however - I'm changing my tune a tiny bit, namely because of covid and how that's going down. I don't think Trump can handle fixing this, and I honestly think we're in over our heads as it is. We really need UBI, stimulus, healthcare reform, and as much as I hate to say it Biden is the closest we get to that. But, vote who you feel is good and safe, I voted green. I'm not gonna vote shame anyone. Just when you vote think about all that's coming : Global Warming, Water Wars (already started in Mexico), Droughts, More Fires, Covid, Covid part 2, Income inequality raised a factor or two, joblessness, homelessness for millions, protests, uprisings, etc... Next two decades will make or break us. TLDR: Trump probably would be best against china, and if that were the only issue facing us, it might be good enough reason to go against the grain, but there's so much shit hitting the fan now, maybe we do need change.
    - throw51319 6y ago
      What kind of fool would vote 3rd party in an election with the gravity of this one? This isn't the time to make some symbolic stand, it's time to vote Trump out - if that's what you believe in.
      - spaetzleesser 6y ago
        I am making a stand to not support either of the corrupt big parties in the US. I can't vote for one guy only because the other guy is bad. The democrats should have put up a candidate people actually want to vote for. They didn't do that either in 2016 or 2020. Not being Trump is not a good program.
        eloff 6y ago
        Do the Democratic party have their collective heads in the sand? What were they thinking putting forward Biden. If they lose this election it's because they threw it. All they had to do was field anyone in good health (Biden isn't) who wasn't widely detested and they would have had it in the bag. The party system in the US leaves so much to be desired.
- whack 6y ago
  > President Donald Trump expressed approval of a concentration camp for Uighur Muslims in China during a private meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, according to former national security adviser John Bolton's upcoming memoir > Xi "explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang," Bolton wrote, citing the interpreter's account. The interpreter added that "Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do," according to the book. > Bolton also wrote in the book that Matthew Pottinger, a retired US Marine and the current deputy national security adviser, "told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China." https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-xinjiang-2020-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-x... Make no mistake about it, Trump's anti-China rhetoric arises purely out of Xenophobia, not concern for Uighurs or human rights.
  - tim333 6y ago
    Still at least he's started the ball rolling on anti China tariffs and the like.
  - adventured 6y ago
    Somehow a war-lusting psychopath like Bolton is trustworthy, as he pushes a book out of a vendetta for having been fired? This is the same Bolton who publicly declared that the single biggest mistake of the Trump presidency was not launching a war against Iran (a war that would kill a million people most likely). The same Bolton who has never shown a problem with aggressively supporting lies, like the foundational lies used for the Iraq war, of which he was a big proponent. There is very little from someone like Bolton that can be trusted directly - which also doesn't mean everything he said about Trump is false, it means there is inherently a severe credibility problem with anything he says.
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    Biden has been pro-China throughout the entirety of his political career. As Senator he voted yes to give China permanent normal trade status, stating: > [Our course is clear. China's growing participation in the international community over the past quarter century has been marked by growing adherence to international norms in the areas of trade, security, and human rights.](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRECB-2000-pt13-Pg18331-7.htm)[Some https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRE... of our colleagues disagree on this point. They would have preferred that the China trade bill be turned into an omnibus China Policy Act. I understand their objectives and their frustration with the slow pace of reform in China. But amendments offered by Senator Smith of New Hampshire--covering such diverse issues as POW/MIA cooperation, forced labor, organ harvesting, etc.--and Senator Wellstone of Minnesota--conditioning PNTR on substantial progress toward the release of all political prisoners in China--pile too much onto this legislation. Moreover, those amendments would effectively hold the trade legislation hostage to changes in China which passing the trade bill would promote. This seems backwards to me.](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRECB-2000-pt13-Pg18331-7.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2000-pt13/html/CRE...) Biden later lobbied to grant most-favored-nation trade status and World Trade Organization membership to China: > [In the critical fight over whether to grant most-favored-nation trade status and World Trade Organization membership to China in the 1990s — a fight in which, again, many of his party’s leaders in Congress were on the right side — Biden carefully shepherded China through the process from his powerful perch as the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Wherever a brake might have been applied — by placing human-rights or labor conditions on most-favored-nation status, for example — Biden voted the measures down and lobbied other senators for Beijing. Unfortunately, China and Biden got their way, and American workers are still suffering from it.](https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/joe-biden-is-chinas-choice-for-president/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/joe-biden-is-chinas-c...) As Vice President: > ["In order to cement this robust partnership, we have to go beyond close ties between Washington and Beijing, which we’re working on every day, go beyond it to include all levels of government, go beyond it to include classrooms and laboratories, athletic fields and boardrooms."](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > ["Already, we have made thousands of new items available for export to China for exclusive civilian use that were not available before, and tens of thousands of more items will become available very soon. That’s a significant change in our export policy and a rejection of those voices in America that say we should not export that kind of technology to – for civilian use in – China. We disagree, and we’re changing."](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > ["I believed in 1979 and said so and I believe now that a rising China is a positive development, not only for the people of China but for the United States and the world as a whole." He continues: “it is in our self-interest that China continues to prosper” and retained hope “a rising China will fuel economic growth and prosperity and it will bring to the fore a new partner with whom we can meet global challenges together.”](https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-ccp-intrusion-into-all-levels-of-us-govt-classrooms-labs-and-boardrooms/ https://newspunch.com/unearthed-biden-speech-in-china-urged-...) > [Vice President Biden convinced China's vice president to agree to a deal that would unlock new fortunes for Hollywood. Biden asked Xi Jinping to relax China's quota of allowing only 20 foreign films to be shown at a time and to increase distribution fees for Hollywood firms.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/02/how-biden-helped-hollywood-unlock-china/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/05/02...) > [In 2013, the Obama administration allowed Chinese companies to invest in U.S. capital markets without having their books inspected by U.S. regulators, after meetings between Chinese officials and Biden.](https://epochtimes.today/where-biden-trump-stand-on-the-chinese-communist-party/ https://epochtimes.today/where-biden-trump-stand-on-the-chin...) As Presidential Candidate: > [In 2019, Biden boasts about having spent more time with Xi Jinping than any other world leader, and that China wasn't a competitior to the United States. "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man," Biden said at the time. "They're not bad folks, folks. But guess what? They're not competition for us."](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-trump-mischaracterizes-our-relationship-with-china https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-trump-mischara...) > [Biden Says He Will End Trump’s Tariffs On Chinese-Made Goods](https://news.yahoo.com/said-trumps-ideas-good-one-153901834.html https://news.yahoo.com/said-trumps-ideas-good-one-153901834....)
WillPostForFood 6y ago
People want the information, and if they had it many would adjust their buying behavior. I see the "where is this made" question on Amazon products all the time. Even if it didn't make a difference, having the manufacturing origin, and shipping origin clearly labeled would be a good start. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+is+this+made%22&oq=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+is+this+made%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.10591j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+i...
- aphextron 6y ago
  Information doesn't matter when you have no other choice. There's practically zero affordable consumer products still made in the US or Europe. Just try finding any form of electronic made outside of Asia. It's nonexistent.
  - spinny 6y ago
    Chy-na imports a large portion of it's food supply, and the recent floods have destroy a large portion of it's own supply. people don't eat consumer electronics.
ordo_inf 6y ago
Not just the US, China exports stuff everywhere. I think this can be mitigated by making planned obsolescence illegal and somehow forcing companies to maximize quality. We don't need crappy pens, toys, electronics, etc... I don't know about you, but I'm personally happy to own one ballpoint pen that'll last me for 20 years (and only have to refill it from time to time). If anything, just to not see some poor guy work as a slave (long work-days, minimum pay, suicide nets). Right now you can just go purchase 10x crappy pens that easily break and dry out for around €2, whyyyy?
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crispyporkbites 6y ago

Any Amazon engineers want to comment on why a country of origin flag is not on every product? Has this been discussed internally at Amazon?

TheKarateKid 6y ago
Probably because it only serves to hurt their sales. Amazon has also become almost as bad as Alibaba in allowing counterfeit and knockoff items to be sold openly.
- crispyporkbites 6y ago
  Wouldn’t it push people to higher cost and higher margin products (locally made or from more ethical sources) and thereby increase their profits? Seems to me like you could make a strong case for it
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  At least with Alibaba you're going right to the source and not paying some reseller's markup or for the 'free' Prime shipping that just gets baked into prices on Amazon.
pjc50 6y ago
That would cost Amazon money. Besides, the rules around country of origin are complicated, and some countries have product description law about this. And what's to stop Amazon sellers sticking fake country of origin on, as they can already do for CE marking? Or the reverse: Amazon stick a China flag on iPhones. Apple are going to get extremely upset about this and sue/offer money to change that to a US flag. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act may make it illegal to force Israeli sellers to identify their country of origin.
- juiyout 6y ago
  Amazon could do A-B tests on this. This might just earn them more money instead.

blub 6y ago

Are you posting from 30 years ago? Because of the greed and stupidity of Western governments and companies it is literally impossible to avoid buying China made products.

eloff 6y ago
The monster we created. You can say all you want about the mistakes and dirty actions of the USA-led world since the end of the second world war, but you're delusional if you think a CCP led world order would be an improvement.
- ddelt 6y ago
  > " ... if you think a CCP led world world order would be an improvement." I don't think the parent comment suggested anything like what you just said. And I agree with that parent comment, in that I find it amusing mental-floss to imagine how a very-low income family in the US can completely avoid Chinese made products.
  - eloff 6y ago
    I'm using "you" to refer to the reader, not the OP. English can be confusing at times.
    - sarakayakomzin 6y ago
      > I'm using "you" to refer to the reader, not the OP. English can be confusing at times. and no "you" 'the reader' would be dumb enough to interpret the statement like you have. Communication can be confusing at times.
    - segfaultbuserr 6y ago
      I learned to say "one" instead of "you".
      - eloff 6y ago

Canada 6y ago

It's "wolf warrior". Avoiding Chinese made products isn't a practical solution. Contract manufacturing needs to move elsewhere.

fuck_red_china 6y ago
We ought to have been making very good friends in South America and Africa starting about ten years ago. We need to catch up very quickly now. They can both replace Red China for cheap labor and keep her from gaining influence in the developing world.

tim333 6y ago

A few individuals buying less stuff isn't going to have much effect. We need something more like the west putting 50% tariffs on Chinese products so all the manufacturing starts moving to other countries. That would probably get their attention.

hcurtiss 6y ago
There’s a lot to not like about Trump, but he’s literally the only one in 50 years who’s been willing to play for keeps on Chinese tariffs. And he’s been raked over the coals for it.
- ansible 6y ago
  And accomplished jack-all. The real problem is not China producing cheap steel, but human rights abuses, and censorship. 45 hasn't done anything about that.
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    Here’s an incomplete list of things Trump has done to stand up to China. I challenge everyone to name a single person (or country, or continent) who’s done more than him. - He refers to the Wuhan Virus as the China/Chinese Virus (CCP is trying very hard from distancing themselves from responsibility; they won’t even let us into Wuhan to investigate). - He started a trade war with China, which has forced companies to move their manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, Taiwan, etc. (Biden admittedly said he would end Trump’s China tariffs, but the many companies that already left are unlikely to return), and even high end tech such as the iPhone is starting to get assembled outside China as well. - He was the first US President to speak directly with Taiwan's President since 1979. - He made the largest arms sale to Taiwan in the past few decades. - The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and the Hong Kong Autonomy Act were signed under his administration. - The TAIPEI Act was signed under his administration. - The Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act was singed under his administration. - Meng Wanzhou was arrested under his administration (which dragged Canada into it because China decided to arbitrarily arrest Canadian citizens). - China Mobile was blocked from offering services in the US, citing national security risks. - Huawei was blocked from using Android and chips with US tech (which will effectively kill their mobiles once their stock runs out). - Huawei was blocked from building 5G networks (USA paid other nations to block them as well). - Hong Kong’s special status was revoked. - Universal Postal Union agreed to let countries raise postal rates after Trump threatened to leave - this means you’ll no longer be able to buy cheap junk from Aliexpress (and resellers like Wish) at no shipping cost (the receiving country was previously forced to deliver the products for free, even if you brought some toy for 10 cents). - Trump is pushing for WTO to drop China’s developing country status. - TikTok and WeChat (likely with more to come) would’ve been blocked by now if it wasn’t for judges temporarily blocking the bans. There's a reason China's GDP growth in 2019 was the lowest it's been since 1990, and there's a reason China's worldwide reputation is at an all-time low. That reason is Trump. It's also no surprise that all the nations that suffer the most from CCP's actions, such as Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc. tend to be pro-Trump.

Devils-Avocado 6y ago

Chinese influence runs deeper than manufacturing. Politicians across the West (or sons of politicians) have sold themselves to various Chinese interests. No need to invade the USA when you can just buy off a vice-president's son for $5million, for example.

ardit33 6y ago
or have a current president with a hidden bank account and forward some 17mil to him when he gets elected...
- hcurtiss 6y ago
  The CCP gave Trump $17 million? That’s a new one.
  - ansible 6y ago
    He's paid taxes on... something. If he was just persuing licencing deals, but didn't land any, you'd think there would be no income tax that needs to be paid in China.
  - onei 6y ago
    The account apparently had some millions deposited into in and then withdrawn quickly after. It's not entirely clear who or where that money came from in the first place.
    - hcurtiss 6y ago
      He indicated in the debate that was all before his candidacy. Is there reason to believe that’s not true?
      - question000 6y ago
        Because Trump lied about nearly everything related to his finances for decades and has openly admitted that his followers are just gullible and will forgive him for it, so he doesn't care. A cursory google search reveals this to be true and to his credit Trump is very open about his lying. "My net worth is just a function of how I feel at the time" and "I could shoot someone on fifth avenue and people would still support me." Are statements he's stood by and never apologized for in anyway.

throw_m239339 6y ago

> CCP must not go unpunished. The CCP already went unpunished with the Tibetans. Very few people in the west cared and it was before China became member of the WTO. The current administration tried to impose tariffs on China which were deemed illegal by the WTO. Maybe the west should have cared BEFORE welcoming China in the WTO.

Diesel555 6y ago
Yes, but arguing we didn’t already do something so we shouldn’t start now isn’t right. I know that isn’t your point, and agreed on the WTO. As a mass we will never sacrifice a 10% cheaper product to stop inhumanities. We need to elect officials who will handle that via economics. I’ve always been a fan of taxing Chinese imports to offset this factor. If only we can just keep partisan politics out of the discussions as the taxes on Chinese products were immediately bashed based on the person who implemented it. We need to look at the decision itself to evaluate it, not the party that made the decision. We can disagree with most of a party’s decisions but if you find you hate 100% of them you are likely applying a bias to something that may be good. Check out Crouching Tiger. It’s a great modern book that includes how we are buying/trading our way into losing the next war.
- xxpor 6y ago
  There will never be a hot war between China and the US. Or if there is, it'll be the end of the world so it doesn't matter. Two nuclear triad powers simply can't fight directly.
  - blonde_ocean 6y ago
    Why not?
agent00f 6y ago
Tibet really is the perfect case study for US agitprop. The typical audience for this material literally know nothing about the region outside of state dept/cia pr. For example, the Lamas ran a feudal theocracy but get played up like disney characters. I guess those are only supposed to be bad to the atheists here if it's scary Muslims. Or how it's portrayed as some invasion about as much as the union "invaded" the confederacy. It's also a perfect illustration of how otherwise supposedly intelligent people in tech are just as easily manipulate outside their area of expertise as the fox news audience.

cheese_van 6y ago

Xi Jinping has a constituency and to a degree opaque to the West, that constituency provides his mandate. Discomfit the constituency, the princes and princelings, in their pockets, and that mandate might be withdrawn. That revolution will be messy, but it's needed.

agent00f 6y ago
Thanks for at least admitting the goal is regime change, same as for the "Arab spring" which has left much of that region as failed states. It's always amusing when people who cause the most misery in the world shout the loudest about human rights and such.
- newen 6y ago
  Scream for the blood of their enemies while calling them sinners. It’s as old as time.

phobosanomaly 6y ago

Unfortunately, I don't see that the West, and the United States in particular, is in a position to do anything in the near future. China seems to know that. They have by-and-large solved their Coronavirus problem months ago (with some pretty draconian methods), but the West is still reeling. The US is heading into a pretty contentious election, nobody is sure whether or not we're on the brink of a recession, international diplomatic relationships are in tatters. If the CCP took Taiwan right now, I don't see the US lifting a finger.

FindMySocks 6y ago
I've heard people chime in that China used Draconian methods to contain COVID, but what Draconian methods did they use?
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  "How China Slowed Coronavirus: Lockdowns, Surveillance, Enforcers" https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-slowed-coronavirus-lockdowns-surveillance-enforcers-11583868093 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-china-slowed-coronavirus-lo... "China, Desperate to Stop Coronavirus, Turns Neighbor Against Neighbor" https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/business/china-coronavirus-wuhan-surveillance.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/business/china-coronaviru...
  - franklampard 6y ago
    Which part is "Draconian"?
    - phobosanomaly 6y ago
      I guess that's relatively subjective, and depends on what you or I feel is draconian. I might feel something is a little over-the-top, but you might feel it's just fine. You might feel something is a little over-the-top, but I might feel it's just fine. So, I guess my only answer would be that you would have to read the articles and decide for yourself. You may have a different tolerance for the techniques described than I do. "In the eastern province of Jiangsu, quarantine turned to imprisonment after authorities used metal poles to barricade shut the door of a family recently returned from Wuhan." "Authorities have used computerized systems that track ID cards — which must be used to take most long-distance transport and stay in hotels — to round up people from Wuhan." For example, I find this to be a bit much. I do, however concede that it works. You may be perfectly fine with it. I find the prison camps in Xinjiang to be a little draconian. Plenty of other people feel that it's a wonderful idea.

agent00f 6y ago

So what's the punishment for a people whose national pastime is bombing brown/yellow counties and actually killing millions? Before anyone starts crowing whataboutism, I'm just curious what their standards are for themselves. There seems to be none, and this is just typical political grandstanding missing much integrity or character.

totalZero 6y ago

We don't have to punish them. We just have to stop enriching them.

Haga 6y ago

Vote for politicians who make politics instead of privatizing problems?

berdario 6y ago

The US must not go unpunished. The world needs to stand up to their lone wolf style. If we do not stand up against the US now it will only embolden the evil. Vote with your wallets. Avoid using US made products and services. Pressure/ Make laws for retailers to enforce Country of Origin information for each and every product. The web is flooded with services made in the US that spread their propaganda (antivax and QAnon started in the anglosphere) made to keep their population feeble and powerless (some of them even die because they cannot afford insuline). The US, Trump and their 2 party system must not be emboldened any further.

_-david-_ 6y ago
Stop whitewashing China's crimes. The US and the rest of the West's abuses are no where near the level of the Chinese government's.
- berdario 6y ago
  China didn't drop the nuke on harmless civilians, the US did. China didn't displace tens of millions of people in the middle east from their homes, the US did. China didn't destabilize dozen of countries (via assassinations, coups, and other unsavory ways to initiate regime change), the US did. There's one threat to world peace, and that's the US. It's ridiculous that people think that somehow China could be worse than that.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    Mao killed tens of millions of people which is significantly more than US nukes. China destabilized Korea, Vietnam and other countries in the area. Are seriously suggesting they didn't want regime changes in those countries? Many of those people were displaced. The US under Trump is actually starting to pull out of the Middle East. While bad things happened the US is at least stopping it. China is continuing their aggression towards minorities in their country.
    - berdario 6y ago

Khaine 6y ago

You are absolutely correct. The CCP gains legitimacy from brining prosperity to the Chinese people. This prosperity is off the back of human rights violations, bullying other countries and corporate espionage. It is time we boycotted China. The whole world must turn its back on China to show this behaviour is not acceptable. It may hurt in the short term, but will benefit all of humanity in the long term.

franklampard 6y ago
"This prosperity is off the back of human rights violations, bullying other countries and corporate espionage" - USA?

cercatrova 6y ago

What a strange decree. States don't punish or get punished for moralistic reasons. It's like saying we should punish Alexander the Great. It's all a part of history, he was a terrible person for ravaging the land but we celebrate him today. There are no morals in empire building.