12 ms·

I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? I mean this seriously but as a lowly computer programmer is the

I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? I mean this seriously but as a lowly computer programmer is there any way we can help these poor people other than offer our sympathy?

morelisp 6y ago
The #1 thing you can do is make sure something similar is not happening in your country. (Do you live in the US? Australia? Turkey? India? Russia? If so, it is.) The #2 thing you can do is make sure your own country is run by politicians who will not do it at home and will pressure China on this actual issue, not as a card in a negotiation actually about economics. I don't mean this as some kind of whataboutism. I mean pragmatically the leverage you have over the government of China is far less than the leverage you have over the government where you work and live. But the leverage they have over of the government of China may be significant.
- cmonnow 6y ago
  Where did India get into the picture here ? The only protests going in India are those which are against government initiatives to help minorities. Interestingly, you didn't mention Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc. where minorities are actually being killed, raped or converted.
  - morelisp 6y ago
    Modi is a racist populist shitbag. How can you call what happened in Kashmir an "initiative to help minorities"? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Jammu_and_Kashmir_lockdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Jammu_and_Ka... for those unfamiliar.) The list was not intended to be exhaustive, and now you are engaging in whataboutism. I listed some nations that have been good at hiding or cloaking their ethnic cleansing and that have a lot of HN readers. The House of Saud doesn't hide it and has probably fewer HN readers than, I don't know, Oklahoma.
    - quetzthecoatl 6y ago
      And you are a nazi pedophile. See anybody can do this. Modi is the first politician since independent Indian republic's inception who represents the Hindu lower class - the poor and oppressed for centuries. The ruling class (Hindu upper castes, Muslims and Christians) has not hidden their disgust at losing power for the first time in about a thousand years. The manufactured propaganda without any specifics but full of adjectives are a derivative of that. Go suck on a lemon nazi pedo.
  - loufe 6y ago
    You're kidding, right? Google "India oppression" and I guarantee you'll see several links towards what's going on in India-controlled Kashmir.
    - quetzthecoatl 6y ago
      Google flat earth. It's sad seeing pakistan funded jihadi narrative getting such acceptance. India should deal with jihadi terrorists who raped, murdered the Hindu pandits in thousands and made half a million of them refugees in their own country with an iron hand. Pak sponsored terrorists who want to establish Islamic state should be dealt in appropriate manner with the full might of Indian state. No compromise.
    - known 6y ago
      Just 5% rapists are punished by Indian regime when the victim is SC/ST https://ncrb.gov.in https://ncrb.gov.in A separate country to 300 million SC/ST is the solution to Untouchability in South Asia https://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr https://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr #HathrasCase
- monoideism 6y ago
  It is utter, all-encompassing tosh to compare the China Uighur situation to the present situation of any US minority group. If you're referring to black Americans, recall that right now, they get preferential treatment from top US universities, government loan programs, tech company jobs, etc. That's not to say that there are no problems, but you're just not speaking reasonably if you compare the two. You're either speaking from emotion, or you're engaging in typical CCP or Putin propaganda (I suspect it's the first in this case). Edit: For sure, historically, there are strong comparisons between the Uighur situation and the situation of African-Americans in the slave and Jim Crow eras. But those are over 150 and 50 years gone by, respectively.
  - morelisp 6y ago
    > You're either speaking from emotion Yeah dude. Concentration camps make me angry, regardless of whether you put Uighurs or Central Americans in them. If you had a heart as half as big as you think your brain is, they'd make you angry too.
    - wait_a_minute 6y ago
      It is incredibly dishonest to compare the US border situation with what is happening to Uighurs in China as if they are at all the same thing.
    - monoideism 6y ago
      Why insult me instead of just making your case? I'm a bit more sympathetic to a comparison between Central Americans migrants -> US and Uighurs -> China, although there are striking differences even between the two: foremost, Uighurs are Chinese citizens, and Central Americans are not US citizens, which is a major, major difference. As such, Central Americans are not, by definition, a "US minority group". I had assumed you were comparing the present situation of black Americans and the Uighurs. Lots of things made me angry when I was in my teens and 20s that I look back on now in my 50s and understand much better (eg, I was furious at the lack of US intervention in Bosnia. I now understand much better the reasons driving non-interventionism, and I'm able to see the compassion driving it, even if I don't always agree.). Edit: And BTW, it wasn't I who flagged your response, despite the ad hominem. But those things rarely play well on HN, as I'm sure you know.
crocal 6y ago
Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the assholes who do this, and so that UN may offer some form of asylum to their victims. Vote for politicians that oppose this shit publicly. Explain to your kids why this is wrong.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Have my upvote, but honestly don't expect too much from UN. They are the ones who turned a blind eye to Rwanda and gave the guy who sold the guns a top job, aren't they?
  - runarberg 6y ago
    What people criticize about the Rwandan genocide isn’t the lack of military intervention. It is the lack of any response from the international community (think the first decade of HIV/AIDS). No condemnation, no UN response, no relief of asylums for victims, and hardly any news.
    - eitland 6y ago
      > What people criticize about the Rwandan genocide isn’t the lack of military intervention. On 11 January 1994, General Roméo Dallaire, commander of UNAMIR, sent his "Genocide Fax" to UN Headquarters.[108] The fax stated that Dallaire was in contact with "a top level trainer in the cadre of Interhamwe-armed [sic] militia of MRND." The informant—now known to be Mathieu Ngirumpatse's chauffeur, Kassim Turatsinze,[109] a.k.a. "Jean-Pierre"—claimed to have been ordered to register all Tutsi in Kigali. According to the memo, Turatsinze suspected that a genocide against the Tutsis was being planned, and he said that "in 20 minutes his personnel could kill up to 1000 Tutsis".[110] Dallaire's request to protect the informant and his family and to raid the weapons caches he revealed was denied.[110] From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
  - godelski 6y ago
    Btw, things still aren't all clear in Rwanda and from what I hear things are starting to go south again, including Paul Rusesabagina (the main character from the movie) accusing the Rwandan government of kidnapping him and forcing him into a rigged trial[0]. Speaking to a Rwandan friend all he could say is that things were certainty shady and things aren't going well in the country right now. Remembering one of the most powerful lines of the movie > You're black. You're not even a nier. You're an African. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN26Q268 https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN26Q268
sidcool 6y ago
I am very uncomfortable reading it. Can you provide me a euphemistic account of it?
- mkolodny 6y ago
  Genocide.
  - stef25 6y ago
    The article says this genocide should stop yet there's not a single mention of anyone dying. Hundreds of camps have been spotted, plenty of interviews given by ex-detainees. No doubt Uighurs are being detained en masse but I wonder how many don't ever make it out.
    - mkolodny 6y ago
      "The Genocide Convention, to which China is a signatory, defines genocide as specific acts against members of a group with the intent to destroy that group in whole or in part. These acts include (a) killing; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm; (c) deliberately inflicting conditions of life to bring about the group’s physical destruction; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Any one of these categories constitutes genocide." https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/uighur-genocide-xinjiang-china-surveillance-sterilization/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/uighur-genocide-xinjian...
      - throwaway568468 6y ago
        It seems that the CCP admit the goal of forced assimilation. We might even say that their goal is an ethnocide. But calling it a genocide is using a definition of the term that is controversial (and not accepted by a majority of scholars). The core of the debate is on what "intent to destroy" means: "The specific intent element defines the purpose of committing the acts: "to destroy in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such". The specific intent is a core factor distinguishing genocide from other international crimes, such as war crimes or crimes against humanity. In 2007, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) noted in its judgement on Jorgic v. Germany case that, in 1992, the majority of legal scholars took the narrow view that "intent to destroy" in the CPPCG meant the intended physical-biological destruction of the protected group, and that this was still the majority opinion. But the ECHR also noted that a minority took a broader view, and did not consider biological-physical destruction to be necessary, as the intent to destroy a national, racial, religious or ethnic group was enough to qualify as genocide.[29]" Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
AnHonestComment 6y ago
Not allow @dang and HN to shadowban “flame war” topics in the name of decorum. This normalizes decorum over inconvenient truths. @dang shadowbanned me for accurately discussing the propaganda warfare happening in US vs China relations, and the way current neo-Marxist riots tie into a long history of subversive movements.
- rhapsodic 6y ago
  > Not allow @dang and HN to shadowban “flame war” topics in the name of decorum. How would one go about that?
brianhorakh 6y ago
Educate yourself. Reddit r/sino is a great place to read the opposition. There are ALWAYs two sides to these stories. Many are fabricated to apply for diplomatic immunity. Uighers represent a very small minority of the overall Chinese population, but almost all domestic terrorism (when the campaign against their culture started in 2014). Yes, their religious culture is being attacked, yes many (most) are good people, yet as Muslims they self-identify as separate from the han culture. It also is used by "bad" Uighers to do hide crime, not pay taxes, etc. The muslim community has a very us vs them mentality which is not healthy for national unity that china ccp desires. So the Chinese are cracking down. China has a 5000 year old culture and a majority of people experienced significant hardships and starvation in the last century. They emphasize national unity (vs individalism) in a way western people cannot even begin to understand, but belonging to such a group is not entirely bad. This Uigher generation is suffering so the future uigher can fit into the society better.
- randomsearch 6y ago
  Do you not see the parallels between your words and those of the Nazi’s?
- sdwa 6y ago
  Yours is possibly the most vile comment I think I've ever read on this website.
  - eznzt 6y ago
    I guess you feel the same about what Macron is doing?
    - sdwa 6y ago
      I am not well-versed in the details of Macron is doing regards Islam in France, but I am certain that he is not committing genocide, which is what the CCP is doing, and what the OP is defending. Like arguing that the Nazis were doing the jews a favour with the holocaust. Beyond, beyond, beyond ludicrous. I don't even know where to begin with the idea that the victims of genocide benefit in any way from said genocide.
mkolodny 6y ago
From the Uyghur Human Rights Project: > Contact your Senators to urge them to co-sponsor the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act [0] > Endorse the global campaign for fashion brands to end complicity in Uyghur forced labour [1] And several other things including signing petitions you can find on their website: https://uhrp.org/what-you-can-do https://uhrp.org/what-you-can-do [0] https://wilberforce.salsalabs.org/preventforcedlabor/index.html https://wilberforce.salsalabs.org/preventforcedlabor/index.h... [1] https://enduyghurforcedlabour.org/ https://enduyghurforcedlabour.org/
baybal2 6y ago
> I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? > I mean this seriously but as a lowly computer programmer is there any way we can help these poor people other than offer our sympathy? You are not a lowly computer programmer, but a person near the top of income vertical for as long as salaried people go. The two most potent political instruments ever are the money, and firearms. You may not have the second, but certainly have first. Saying this, people have to ask a question not who are the bigger enemies to the civilised mankind, but who are the biggest threat. Are they are the people who perpetrate genocides in parts of the world where the light doesn't shine, or the people who cover for them in the West, while living a comfy life, and enjoying all benefits of life in a civil state. Without any hesitation I will say that while Xis, Putins, and Sisis are the biggest enemies of the civilised mankind, but the biggest threat to civil state as we know it comes from people in the West who made their ascension to power possible. I believe the majority opinion of WW2 historians is that the war was very well preventable, or it was possible to nip it at the bud if the West wasn't stalled in its tracks by internal political sabotage by people who were not much dissimilar to those Western politicians who now flirt with rouge regimes, and sometimes directly facilitating them. A very good reason to think to all of HN readers who were fortunate to be born in the free world. From my lifelong misfortune with politics, I can affirm the saying that it's much, much, much more hard to "create" new power, than it is to take, or receive existing power from somebody else. My advise, join all major political parties, and fight, fight, fight, until you can do something real, and the money you have can help you in this a lot.
lordnacho 6y ago
> I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? I'm surprised at your surprise. Aren't there stories about improper arrest and torture quite often? Heck, a friend of mine was improperly arrested recently (the cops lied about what he was doing) and I actually met a guy who had been tortured (soon before I met him) by a state secret police. I also knew a Holocaust survivor. I can't be the only person who thinks states behaving badly is more the norm than the exception?
GoodJokes 6y ago
Wait till you learn about US history.
phobosanomaly 6y ago
You're actually in a better position than you think. Check out the history of Brown Moses, and Bellingcat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins "Higgins' analyses of Syrian weapons, which began as a hobby out of his home in his spare time, are frequently cited by the press and human rights groups and have led to parliamentary discussion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat "Bellingcat (stylized as bell¿ngcat) is an investigative journalism website that specializes in fact-checking and open-source intelligence (OSINT). It was founded by British journalist and former blogger Eliot Higgins in July 2014. Bellingcat publishes the findings of both professional and citizen journalist investigations into war zones, human rights abuses, and the criminal underworld. The site's contributors also publish guides to their techniques, as well as case studies." Check out some of the work being done peering into North Korea as well for ideas e.g.: "North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Center: Flood Damage Repairs Underway" https://www.38north.org/2020/10/yongbyon201022/ https://www.38north.org/2020/10/yongbyon201022/ There is probably a lot to be learned from constructing various elements of an open-source intelligence pipeline that uses software to aggregate information from dissidents, analyze satellite imagery to identify concentration camps, provide encryption, translation, etc.
- agent00f 6y ago
  > Higgins' analyses of Syrian weapons The ironic and actually instructive part of this is that his work was used to rationalize the Syrian war for the west, which has left an absolutely devastating trail of misery for countless millions of Syrian people. Even more instructive is that the people responsibly for that misery all still pretend to be the good guys.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    I'm not sure I'd be as quick to boil that whole thing down to a 'neocons did Iraq'-style narrative. I don't think the pieces of Syria fit quite so neatly together.
  - dang 6y ago
    I appreciate the contrary view that you're representing but at the same time your account is badly violating the HN guidelines against using this site primarily for political battle, and you're also posting in the flamewar style which is not ok here. We ban accounts that do that, regardless of what they're battling for or against, or how good or bad it is. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended, we'd appreciate it. The intended use is this: primarily for intellectual curiosity, only secondarily for politics, and then only in the form of curious and thoughtful conversation—not smiting enemies.
agent00f 6y ago
> How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? Yeah, it's pretty shocking that americans are actively bombing brown people by the millions, while simultaneously pretending to be the good guys grandstanding about "human rights" or whatever.

morelisp 6y ago

The #1 thing you can do is make sure something similar is not happening in your country. (Do you live in the US? Australia? Turkey? India? Russia? If so, it is.) The #2 thing you can do is make sure your own country is run by politicians who will not do it at home and will pressure China on this actual issue, not as a card in a negotiation actually about economics. I don't mean this as some kind of whataboutism. I mean pragmatically the leverage you have over the government of China is far less than the leverage you have over the government where you work and live. But the leverage they have over of the government of China may be significant.

cmonnow 6y ago
Where did India get into the picture here ? The only protests going in India are those which are against government initiatives to help minorities. Interestingly, you didn't mention Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc. where minorities are actually being killed, raped or converted.
- morelisp 6y ago
  Modi is a racist populist shitbag. How can you call what happened in Kashmir an "initiative to help minorities"? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Jammu_and_Kashmir_lockdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Jammu_and_Ka... for those unfamiliar.) The list was not intended to be exhaustive, and now you are engaging in whataboutism. I listed some nations that have been good at hiding or cloaking their ethnic cleansing and that have a lot of HN readers. The House of Saud doesn't hide it and has probably fewer HN readers than, I don't know, Oklahoma.
  - quetzthecoatl 6y ago
    And you are a nazi pedophile. See anybody can do this. Modi is the first politician since independent Indian republic's inception who represents the Hindu lower class - the poor and oppressed for centuries. The ruling class (Hindu upper castes, Muslims and Christians) has not hidden their disgust at losing power for the first time in about a thousand years. The manufactured propaganda without any specifics but full of adjectives are a derivative of that. Go suck on a lemon nazi pedo.
- loufe 6y ago
  You're kidding, right? Google "India oppression" and I guarantee you'll see several links towards what's going on in India-controlled Kashmir.
  - quetzthecoatl 6y ago
    Google flat earth. It's sad seeing pakistan funded jihadi narrative getting such acceptance. India should deal with jihadi terrorists who raped, murdered the Hindu pandits in thousands and made half a million of them refugees in their own country with an iron hand. Pak sponsored terrorists who want to establish Islamic state should be dealt in appropriate manner with the full might of Indian state. No compromise.
  - known 6y ago
    Just 5% rapists are punished by Indian regime when the victim is SC/ST https://ncrb.gov.in https://ncrb.gov.in A separate country to 300 million SC/ST is the solution to Untouchability in South Asia https://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr https://chng.it/kJphRWWBRr #HathrasCase
monoideism 6y ago
It is utter, all-encompassing tosh to compare the China Uighur situation to the present situation of any US minority group. If you're referring to black Americans, recall that right now, they get preferential treatment from top US universities, government loan programs, tech company jobs, etc. That's not to say that there are no problems, but you're just not speaking reasonably if you compare the two. You're either speaking from emotion, or you're engaging in typical CCP or Putin propaganda (I suspect it's the first in this case). Edit: For sure, historically, there are strong comparisons between the Uighur situation and the situation of African-Americans in the slave and Jim Crow eras. But those are over 150 and 50 years gone by, respectively.
- morelisp 6y ago
  > You're either speaking from emotion Yeah dude. Concentration camps make me angry, regardless of whether you put Uighurs or Central Americans in them. If you had a heart as half as big as you think your brain is, they'd make you angry too.
  - wait_a_minute 6y ago
    It is incredibly dishonest to compare the US border situation with what is happening to Uighurs in China as if they are at all the same thing.
  - monoideism 6y ago
    Why insult me instead of just making your case? I'm a bit more sympathetic to a comparison between Central Americans migrants -> US and Uighurs -> China, although there are striking differences even between the two: foremost, Uighurs are Chinese citizens, and Central Americans are not US citizens, which is a major, major difference. As such, Central Americans are not, by definition, a "US minority group". I had assumed you were comparing the present situation of black Americans and the Uighurs. Lots of things made me angry when I was in my teens and 20s that I look back on now in my 50s and understand much better (eg, I was furious at the lack of US intervention in Bosnia. I now understand much better the reasons driving non-interventionism, and I'm able to see the compassion driving it, even if I don't always agree.). Edit: And BTW, it wasn't I who flagged your response, despite the ad hominem. But those things rarely play well on HN, as I'm sure you know.

crocal 6y ago

Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the assholes who do this, and so that UN may offer some form of asylum to their victims. Vote for politicians that oppose this shit publicly. Explain to your kids why this is wrong.

skinkestek 6y ago
Have my upvote, but honestly don't expect too much from UN. They are the ones who turned a blind eye to Rwanda and gave the guy who sold the guns a top job, aren't they?
- runarberg 6y ago
  What people criticize about the Rwandan genocide isn’t the lack of military intervention. It is the lack of any response from the international community (think the first decade of HIV/AIDS). No condemnation, no UN response, no relief of asylums for victims, and hardly any news.
  - eitland 6y ago
    > What people criticize about the Rwandan genocide isn’t the lack of military intervention. On 11 January 1994, General Roméo Dallaire, commander of UNAMIR, sent his "Genocide Fax" to UN Headquarters.[108] The fax stated that Dallaire was in contact with "a top level trainer in the cadre of Interhamwe-armed [sic] militia of MRND." The informant—now known to be Mathieu Ngirumpatse's chauffeur, Kassim Turatsinze,[109] a.k.a. "Jean-Pierre"—claimed to have been ordered to register all Tutsi in Kigali. According to the memo, Turatsinze suspected that a genocide against the Tutsis was being planned, and he said that "in 20 minutes his personnel could kill up to 1000 Tutsis".[110] Dallaire's request to protect the informant and his family and to raid the weapons caches he revealed was denied.[110] From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
- godelski 6y ago
  Btw, things still aren't all clear in Rwanda and from what I hear things are starting to go south again, including Paul Rusesabagina (the main character from the movie) accusing the Rwandan government of kidnapping him and forcing him into a rigged trial[0]. Speaking to a Rwandan friend all he could say is that things were certainty shady and things aren't going well in the country right now. Remembering one of the most powerful lines of the movie > You're black. You're not even a nier. You're an African. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN26Q268 https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN26Q268

sidcool 6y ago

I am very uncomfortable reading it. Can you provide me a euphemistic account of it?

mkolodny 6y ago
Genocide.
- stef25 6y ago
  The article says this genocide should stop yet there's not a single mention of anyone dying. Hundreds of camps have been spotted, plenty of interviews given by ex-detainees. No doubt Uighurs are being detained en masse but I wonder how many don't ever make it out.
  - mkolodny 6y ago
    "The Genocide Convention, to which China is a signatory, defines genocide as specific acts against members of a group with the intent to destroy that group in whole or in part. These acts include (a) killing; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm; (c) deliberately inflicting conditions of life to bring about the group’s physical destruction; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Any one of these categories constitutes genocide." https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/uighur-genocide-xinjiang-china-surveillance-sterilization/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/uighur-genocide-xinjian...
    - throwaway568468 6y ago
      It seems that the CCP admit the goal of forced assimilation. We might even say that their goal is an ethnocide. But calling it a genocide is using a definition of the term that is controversial (and not accepted by a majority of scholars). The core of the debate is on what "intent to destroy" means: "The specific intent element defines the purpose of committing the acts: "to destroy in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such". The specific intent is a core factor distinguishing genocide from other international crimes, such as war crimes or crimes against humanity. In 2007, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) noted in its judgement on Jorgic v. Germany case that, in 1992, the majority of legal scholars took the narrow view that "intent to destroy" in the CPPCG meant the intended physical-biological destruction of the protected group, and that this was still the majority opinion. But the ECHR also noted that a minority took a broader view, and did not consider biological-physical destruction to be necessary, as the intent to destroy a national, racial, religious or ethnic group was enough to qualify as genocide.[29]" Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

AnHonestComment 6y ago

Not allow @dang and HN to shadowban “flame war” topics in the name of decorum. This normalizes decorum over inconvenient truths. @dang shadowbanned me for accurately discussing the propaganda warfare happening in US vs China relations, and the way current neo-Marxist riots tie into a long history of subversive movements.

rhapsodic 6y ago
> Not allow @dang and HN to shadowban “flame war” topics in the name of decorum. How would one go about that?

brianhorakh 6y ago

Educate yourself. Reddit r/sino is a great place to read the opposition. There are ALWAYs two sides to these stories. Many are fabricated to apply for diplomatic immunity. Uighers represent a very small minority of the overall Chinese population, but almost all domestic terrorism (when the campaign against their culture started in 2014). Yes, their religious culture is being attacked, yes many (most) are good people, yet as Muslims they self-identify as separate from the han culture. It also is used by "bad" Uighers to do hide crime, not pay taxes, etc. The muslim community has a very us vs them mentality which is not healthy for national unity that china ccp desires. So the Chinese are cracking down. China has a 5000 year old culture and a majority of people experienced significant hardships and starvation in the last century. They emphasize national unity (vs individalism) in a way western people cannot even begin to understand, but belonging to such a group is not entirely bad. This Uigher generation is suffering so the future uigher can fit into the society better.

randomsearch 6y ago
Do you not see the parallels between your words and those of the Nazi’s?
sdwa 6y ago
Yours is possibly the most vile comment I think I've ever read on this website.
- eznzt 6y ago
  I guess you feel the same about what Macron is doing?
  - sdwa 6y ago
    I am not well-versed in the details of Macron is doing regards Islam in France, but I am certain that he is not committing genocide, which is what the CCP is doing, and what the OP is defending. Like arguing that the Nazis were doing the jews a favour with the holocaust. Beyond, beyond, beyond ludicrous. I don't even know where to begin with the idea that the victims of genocide benefit in any way from said genocide.

mkolodny 6y ago

From the Uyghur Human Rights Project: > Contact your Senators to urge them to co-sponsor the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act [0] > Endorse the global campaign for fashion brands to end complicity in Uyghur forced labour [1] And several other things including signing petitions you can find on their website: https://uhrp.org/what-you-can-do https://uhrp.org/what-you-can-do [0] https://wilberforce.salsalabs.org/preventforcedlabor/index.html https://wilberforce.salsalabs.org/preventforcedlabor/index.h... [1] https://enduyghurforcedlabour.org/ https://enduyghurforcedlabour.org/

baybal2 6y ago

> I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? > I mean this seriously but as a lowly computer programmer is there any way we can help these poor people other than offer our sympathy? You are not a lowly computer programmer, but a person near the top of income vertical for as long as salaried people go. The two most potent political instruments ever are the money, and firearms. You may not have the second, but certainly have first. Saying this, people have to ask a question not who are the bigger enemies to the civilised mankind, but who are the biggest threat. Are they are the people who perpetrate genocides in parts of the world where the light doesn't shine, or the people who cover for them in the West, while living a comfy life, and enjoying all benefits of life in a civil state. Without any hesitation I will say that while Xis, Putins, and Sisis are the biggest enemies of the civilised mankind, but the biggest threat to civil state as we know it comes from people in the West who made their ascension to power possible. I believe the majority opinion of WW2 historians is that the war was very well preventable, or it was possible to nip it at the bud if the West wasn't stalled in its tracks by internal political sabotage by people who were not much dissimilar to those Western politicians who now flirt with rouge regimes, and sometimes directly facilitating them. A very good reason to think to all of HN readers who were fortunate to be born in the free world. From my lifelong misfortune with politics, I can affirm the saying that it's much, much, much more hard to "create" new power, than it is to take, or receive existing power from somebody else. My advise, join all major political parties, and fight, fight, fight, until you can do something real, and the money you have can help you in this a lot.

lordnacho 6y ago

> I'm in complete and utter disbelief reading this. How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? I'm surprised at your surprise. Aren't there stories about improper arrest and torture quite often? Heck, a friend of mine was improperly arrested recently (the cops lied about what he was doing) and I actually met a guy who had been tortured (soon before I met him) by a state secret police. I also knew a Holocaust survivor. I can't be the only person who thinks states behaving badly is more the norm than the exception?

GoodJokes 6y ago

Wait till you learn about US history.

phobosanomaly 6y ago

You're actually in a better position than you think. Check out the history of Brown Moses, and Bellingcat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins "Higgins' analyses of Syrian weapons, which began as a hobby out of his home in his spare time, are frequently cited by the press and human rights groups and have led to parliamentary discussion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat "Bellingcat (stylized as bell¿ngcat) is an investigative journalism website that specializes in fact-checking and open-source intelligence (OSINT). It was founded by British journalist and former blogger Eliot Higgins in July 2014. Bellingcat publishes the findings of both professional and citizen journalist investigations into war zones, human rights abuses, and the criminal underworld. The site's contributors also publish guides to their techniques, as well as case studies." Check out some of the work being done peering into North Korea as well for ideas e.g.: "North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Center: Flood Damage Repairs Underway" https://www.38north.org/2020/10/yongbyon201022/ https://www.38north.org/2020/10/yongbyon201022/ There is probably a lot to be learned from constructing various elements of an open-source intelligence pipeline that uses software to aggregate information from dissidents, analyze satellite imagery to identify concentration camps, provide encryption, translation, etc.

agent00f 6y ago
> Higgins' analyses of Syrian weapons The ironic and actually instructive part of this is that his work was used to rationalize the Syrian war for the west, which has left an absolutely devastating trail of misery for countless millions of Syrian people. Even more instructive is that the people responsibly for that misery all still pretend to be the good guys.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  I'm not sure I'd be as quick to boil that whole thing down to a 'neocons did Iraq'-style narrative. I don't think the pieces of Syria fit quite so neatly together.
- dang 6y ago
  I appreciate the contrary view that you're representing but at the same time your account is badly violating the HN guidelines against using this site primarily for political battle, and you're also posting in the flamewar style which is not ok here. We ban accounts that do that, regardless of what they're battling for or against, or how good or bad it is. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended, we'd appreciate it. The intended use is this: primarily for intellectual curiosity, only secondarily for politics, and then only in the form of curious and thoughtful conversation—not smiting enemies.

agent00f 6y ago

> How can stuff like this be happening in 2020? Yeah, it's pretty shocking that americans are actively bombing brown people by the millions, while simultaneously pretending to be the good guys grandstanding about "human rights" or whatever.