7 ms·

Reimagining the Browser: Introducing Cloudflare Browser Isolation Beta

126 points by adspedia 6y ago

dx87 6y ago
> It’s an open door to nearly every connected system on the planet, which is powerful and terrifying. I guess fearmongering is one way to try and convince people to use your product.
ancharm 6y ago
This is awesome but also means that latency becomes the key metric in internet / service providers. How long until we start seeing the edge become small micro servers that live right beside metro network access points?
corytheboyd 6y ago
> [...] the only thing ever sent to the device is a package of draw commands to render the webpage That sounds like a great solution to this problem, though I’m very curious about the details as to how that works, does anyone have resources to share?
- jgrahamc 6y ago
  Some details here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-is...
  - corytheboyd 6y ago
    Thanks, that exactly answered my questions! This sounds like it has huge potential, and I think Cloudflare has the maturity to pull it off, fingers crossed
  - skybrian 6y ago
    In particular: > A key architectural feature of the Chromium browser is its use of the Skia graphics library. Skia is a widely-used cross-platform graphics engine for Android, Google Chrome, Chrome OS, Mozilla Firefox, Firefox OS, FitbitOS, Flutter, the Electron application framework and many other products. Like Chromium, the pervasiveness of Skia ensures ongoing broad hardware and platform support.
    - ignoramous 6y ago
      Also see: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=S2+Systems+Corp https://patents.google.com/?assignee=S2+Systems+Corp
      - ilaksh 6y ago
        This is an example of why I think software patents are problematic. Because Cloudflare said they are using Skia so the first thing that comes to mind is, how do you hook into Skia in order to intercept graphics commands so that you can efficiently transfer them to the remote? And then the next thing is, what if there are already graphics on the screen before the remote session starts? Do I have to record and transmit everything that happened an hour ago? Or how do I figure out which part needs to be transferred, aside from a clear screen which obviously resets it. So that outline is exactly what I am seeing is being patented. They do mention they are using "hierarchies" to figure out what needs to be synced. But a hierarchy is one of the most fundamental categories of data structure so that really doesn't narrow it down. So now if you're going to hook into a graphics library and use any kind of hierarchy and then transmit it to be updated somewhere else, you have to be worried about the details of this patent? Because what I am seeing is the basic logic that stems directly from the starting point of trying to transmit the graphics at that rendering level. Like if I go fork Skia and hack into a renderer saving the commands into some queue to be compressed and streamed, and keep track of when a new window is opened or shown (a hierarchy), it seems like I will be putting myself at risk of this patent because it is so generic.
djmobley 6y ago
This is fascinating. I assume it means Cloudflare would proxy images and other assets? I assume it would have implications for tracking users, which would now impact not just Cloudflare customers but all web entities?
- yencabulator 6y ago
  They have to do more than just proxy, or image/video/audio format parsing based attacks still exist. They probably re-encode them to simpler formats.
emptyparadise 6y ago
I really don't like this thin client future we're heading towards.
- Frost1x 6y ago
  Its VNC all the way down. Since tech trends seem to go in cycles and rediscover reasons why shifts occurred in the first place, give it another 5-10 years for people to realize providers managing everything isn't always (or even usually) in their best interest. It's only in the financial interest of those pushing this path forward. Its IBM, all over again. On the bright side, somewhere in the swing from personal computing back to centralized computing models, I feel we hit a nice balance that made sense. Leverage the benefits and competitive marketing in personal computing when needed and aspects of centralized computing when it makes sense. Neither extreme is really all that great. Let's hope we can find that nice balance point again because where a bit too heavy on centralized computing IMHO.
  - Accujack 6y ago
    They make too much money on the back and forth "next big thing" to stop doing it. Market analysts sell them on the idea that the next big thing might be a huge competitive advantage and a disruptive technology, so the "smart" companies embrace it. There's also a lack of knowledge in present corporate management (at least in the US) generally speaking where the higher ups will reward apparent progress or activity without considering whether that activity is positive or negative long term. All that matters is that managers appear to be doing something, and when the sales people hand them a full narrative explaining how the next big thing will benefit their company, they accept it because they literally don't have to think or answer any of the hard questions to appear to be doing something useful/positive for their company. It's sad, but I have hopes that as the old generation ages out of control of corporations that newer, smarter ones will form.
saagarjha 6y ago
Interesting! Are there any details on what engine the backend is using (Chromium?) How does the “send render commands” thing work? Does it continuously stream page updates as JavaScript updates the page? How’s overhead, or how much data does it save? Can I run extensions (such as a content blocker)? From a security perspective, I’m curious as to whether the attack model includes someone who exploits the browser and does not look to escape into the host OS, instead choosing to create UXSS and the like. Is there any work being done there as well?
- tobezuk 6y ago
  Product Manager for Cloudflare Browser Isolation here. We're running Chromium under the hood and overhead is lower since the browser only receives visual updates and does not need to download invisible third party content. We're working on a detailed technical blog post which will answer your questions in more detail.
  - fabrice_d 6y ago
    What about the privacy considerations? Are you keeping each user profile stored permanently in the cloud or is it somehow synced client side?
infinityplus1 6y ago
Is this like Opera Mini?
- dingaling 6y ago
  Yes, with the justification of security instead of inadequate client resources.
parhamn 6y ago
Looks a lot like Mighty! https://mightyapp.com/ https://mightyapp.com/ I've been working on a productivity oriented browser (early alpha here: https://cloudsynth.com https://cloudsynth.com -- sorry landing isn't complete yet). It's very obvious that those inner rendering frames can be handled by remote servers. We've managed to reduce a lot of chromes memory usage by sleeping/unmounting unused tabs transparently (where we can) and have seen a ton of performance improvement. Looking forward to swapping out the chromium rendering layer to a cloud one down the road! The security implications are interesting too. Moving the 'sandbox' to the cloud for security purposes seems like the browsers definitely missed some of their goals.
jgrahamc 6y ago
It's 1554 UTC as I write. There will be a live demo of this on cloudflare.tv in 6 minutes if people are curious.
resfirestar 6y ago
>Web browsers are the culprit behind 70% of endpoint compromises This seemed like a pretty remarkable statistic to open with (where are the Office macros? If I download a shady exe or vbs with the browser and then run it, is the browser the "culprit"?), so I googled it and found that a previous Cloudflare post [1] cites this Gartner report [2] for that statistic. Unfortunately, there is no methodology to arrive at that number: it's merely listed as an assumption. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-is... [2] https://airlock.cdn.prismic.io/airlock/e0eca969-989e-44ad-b3ae-55100a05ec7e_innovation_insight_for_remot_350577.pdf https://airlock.cdn.prismic.io/airlock/e0eca969-989e-44ad-b3...
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
Sounds like their solution is approach #1 and not a new #3.
ffpip 6y ago
> It’s an open door to nearly every connected system on the planet, which is powerful and terrifying. That is it's purpose. It's not 'terrifying'.
ffpip 6y ago
It's like fullstory[0] but backwards? https://www.fullstory.com/ https://www.fullstory.com/
yosamino 6y ago
So now that all* Websites are "behind Cloudflare", the browser can also move into Cloudflare controlled networks. I'm sure that there is some snarky comment about giving up freedom in exchange for security somewhere in there.... *many enough for it to be annoying
- ilaksh 6y ago
  Outwardly Cloudflare seems like an amazing and great company. But at this point they have more control over the web than most governments. Or maybe all of them. So I would assume that intelligence or military cyber agencies or whatever would feel compelled to somehow hook into Cloudflare. Similar to the way I assume they have done so with other mega tech companies.
infinityplus1 6y ago
How about streaming a whole OS instead of just the browser?
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
This is how the web's re-incarnation could begin. Imagine: • 2020: Websites are too complex. The security implications are too high. Let's run all of that code remotely, and send only draw commands to the user. • 2025: Hey, developers, want your website to be faster and more efficient? Here's an API for performing certain operations directly on the user's machine. Don't worry, we've implemented everything in a limited and security-conscious way. Pinky promise the standard won't grow out of control over time. • 2040: Neo-websites are too complex. Let's run all of that code remotely... I'm not sure if I actually believe this will happen. But, consider how we got here: websites originally relied on server-side rendering, and gradually shifted to client-side rendering over time. Now, Cloudflare is offering a way to force all of that code back on to a server...
- ignoramous 6y ago
  What Cloudflare's announced is more than just DOM reconstruction, though. They sound very different to the likes of Opera Mini Turbo or Amazon Silk's Cloud Browser or Chrome's Fly Wheel...[0] In Cloudflare's case, the rendering happens on the server and only rasterization commands are sent to the clients similar to AWS NICE [1]. As a security product (if you trust Cloudflare), browser isolation sounds super tempting on-paper. As they mention in the blogspot, an ashtonishing 70% of the exploits are through various forms of Phishing and other attacks in the browser. DNS based blocklists (and Google SafeBrowsing) which form a viable defence against Phising can only protect you from so much [2]. So, my point is, regardless of the thin-client / thick-client cycle, there's a real value to this product. It isn't for everyone but there's no denying its utility, especially when you consider the fact that most SaaS tools are browser-friendly. I have also been following MightyApp.com that is trying to do something similar but for consumers and with focus on productivity. It is interesting to see how this would play out. If there's a huge market for this, Google is sure to pounce on it too, and then things will get real interesting... as if AMP, WebComponents [2] and Privacy Sandbox [3] weren't already enough. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774768 [1] https://aws.amazon.com/hpc/dcv/ https://aws.amazon.com/hpc/dcv/ [2] https://blogs.akamai.com/2018/01/a-death-match-of-domain-generation-algorithms.html https://blogs.akamai.com/2018/01/a-death-match-of-domain-gen... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24390324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24390324 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20767891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20767891
modzu 6y ago
the cost is anonymity - inside their bubble you're uniqueness is guaranteed and the value of the ads just went up! hooray!
CivBase 6y ago
So... it's GeForce Now for browsers? How can they monetize this?
acarrera94 6y ago
I wonder if anyone is working on an open source version of this? I’ve seen a few Firefox and chrome docker containers, but as far as I can tell they stream through vnc.
armoredkitten 6y ago
So the company that makes browsing the web with a VPN a constant annoyance wants me to use a web browser that's completely on their server because it's "more secure"? No thanks.
diegocg 6y ago
If this works for browsers, it will work for many other programs...
riquito 6y ago
> Zero Trust week Hm, they'll be able to see every password, every url, every video frame... That's a lot of trust required to me. Cool tech though
billyzs 6y ago
What would it take to get a self-hosted version of this, preferably using FireFox on the server? How hard would it be to get plugins working as well? Would this be essentially a way of using Blink/Servo based engine on i(Pad)OS?
- heipei 6y ago
  Check out browserless for something that's the same direction: https://www.browserless.io/ https://www.browserless.io/
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  I'm imagining a slightly weirder use case where the user is on a network which replaces TLS certificates with locally-issued ones (to allow snooping, but generally not tampering), so the connection needs another layer of encryption done in the application layer. The user could load a locally saved (and audited) page in their browser which contains the JavaScript client that connects to the self-hosted version of this Cloudflare service. The client would require the user to enter a pre-shared secret which is used to encrypt and authenticate the data being sent back and forth with the server.
instaheat 6y ago
How will this affect my Cloudflare stock? Thanks.
zokier 6y ago
Not directly related to the product, but seeing more detailed, even if approximate, isochrone map of internet connectivity (similar to what that last picture is) would be really cool.
addicted 6y ago
Doesn’t Opera already do this?
jfengel 6y ago
The slogan "the network is the computer", prominently marked as (R), struck me, because that was Sun Microsystem's slogan. So I checked the TESS database, and things got weird. Nobody bothered to record it until Oracle did, in 2009: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jrw1o.2.2 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jr... but it's also marked DEAD as of 2011, without any indicator as to why. There is a live trademark, created 2018, and it does indeed belong to Cloudflare: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jrw1o.2.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jr... I suppose Oracle doesn't really see itself as taking on the Sun mantle there, but I'm surprised they'd abandon a catchy slogan. Surely they'd find some reason to use it? How long would they have to ignore it before it got marked dead; is it really just two years? Why bother to file for it in the first place?
- kentonv 6y ago
  Right, Oracle didn't renew the trademark, and then Cloudflare registered it. https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-network-is-the-computer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-network-is-the-computer/
corobo 6y ago
Who can see your browser history?
homakov 6y ago
This can also protect the server from attacks if it runs all sessions in isolation. All you can is click and type, no more sqli or xss that require messing with params or API. So it could be useful either way.
doublerabbit 6y ago
All a browser is, is a tabbed UI that renders HTML. That's all the internet will ever be. Rendered HTML. Until someone creates a new engine, protocol and something other then HTTP without Webkit/Gecko/V8 there will be no "re-imagining the browser". PR from Cloudflare wanting you to use their network instead of others, I don't buy it. Respect them a little trying to knock google down a peg but still a power-hungry company.

126 points by adspedia 6y ago

dx87 6y ago

> It’s an open door to nearly every connected system on the planet, which is powerful and terrifying. I guess fearmongering is one way to try and convince people to use your product.

ancharm 6y ago

This is awesome but also means that latency becomes the key metric in internet / service providers. How long until we start seeing the edge become small micro servers that live right beside metro network access points?

corytheboyd 6y ago

> [...] the only thing ever sent to the device is a package of draw commands to render the webpage That sounds like a great solution to this problem, though I’m very curious about the details as to how that works, does anyone have resources to share?

jgrahamc 6y ago
Some details here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-is...
- corytheboyd 6y ago
  Thanks, that exactly answered my questions! This sounds like it has huge potential, and I think Cloudflare has the maturity to pull it off, fingers crossed
- skybrian 6y ago
  In particular: > A key architectural feature of the Chromium browser is its use of the Skia graphics library. Skia is a widely-used cross-platform graphics engine for Android, Google Chrome, Chrome OS, Mozilla Firefox, Firefox OS, FitbitOS, Flutter, the Electron application framework and many other products. Like Chromium, the pervasiveness of Skia ensures ongoing broad hardware and platform support.
  - ignoramous 6y ago
    Also see: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=S2+Systems+Corp https://patents.google.com/?assignee=S2+Systems+Corp
    - ilaksh 6y ago
      This is an example of why I think software patents are problematic. Because Cloudflare said they are using Skia so the first thing that comes to mind is, how do you hook into Skia in order to intercept graphics commands so that you can efficiently transfer them to the remote? And then the next thing is, what if there are already graphics on the screen before the remote session starts? Do I have to record and transmit everything that happened an hour ago? Or how do I figure out which part needs to be transferred, aside from a clear screen which obviously resets it. So that outline is exactly what I am seeing is being patented. They do mention they are using "hierarchies" to figure out what needs to be synced. But a hierarchy is one of the most fundamental categories of data structure so that really doesn't narrow it down. So now if you're going to hook into a graphics library and use any kind of hierarchy and then transmit it to be updated somewhere else, you have to be worried about the details of this patent? Because what I am seeing is the basic logic that stems directly from the starting point of trying to transmit the graphics at that rendering level. Like if I go fork Skia and hack into a renderer saving the commands into some queue to be compressed and streamed, and keep track of when a new window is opened or shown (a hierarchy), it seems like I will be putting myself at risk of this patent because it is so generic.

djmobley 6y ago

This is fascinating. I assume it means Cloudflare would proxy images and other assets? I assume it would have implications for tracking users, which would now impact not just Cloudflare customers but all web entities?

yencabulator 6y ago
They have to do more than just proxy, or image/video/audio format parsing based attacks still exist. They probably re-encode them to simpler formats.

emptyparadise 6y ago

I really don't like this thin client future we're heading towards.

Frost1x 6y ago
Its VNC all the way down. Since tech trends seem to go in cycles and rediscover reasons why shifts occurred in the first place, give it another 5-10 years for people to realize providers managing everything isn't always (or even usually) in their best interest. It's only in the financial interest of those pushing this path forward. Its IBM, all over again. On the bright side, somewhere in the swing from personal computing back to centralized computing models, I feel we hit a nice balance that made sense. Leverage the benefits and competitive marketing in personal computing when needed and aspects of centralized computing when it makes sense. Neither extreme is really all that great. Let's hope we can find that nice balance point again because where a bit too heavy on centralized computing IMHO.
- Accujack 6y ago
  They make too much money on the back and forth "next big thing" to stop doing it. Market analysts sell them on the idea that the next big thing might be a huge competitive advantage and a disruptive technology, so the "smart" companies embrace it. There's also a lack of knowledge in present corporate management (at least in the US) generally speaking where the higher ups will reward apparent progress or activity without considering whether that activity is positive or negative long term. All that matters is that managers appear to be doing something, and when the sales people hand them a full narrative explaining how the next big thing will benefit their company, they accept it because they literally don't have to think or answer any of the hard questions to appear to be doing something useful/positive for their company. It's sad, but I have hopes that as the old generation ages out of control of corporations that newer, smarter ones will form.

saagarjha 6y ago

Interesting! Are there any details on what engine the backend is using (Chromium?) How does the “send render commands” thing work? Does it continuously stream page updates as JavaScript updates the page? How’s overhead, or how much data does it save? Can I run extensions (such as a content blocker)? From a security perspective, I’m curious as to whether the attack model includes someone who exploits the browser and does not look to escape into the host OS, instead choosing to create UXSS and the like. Is there any work being done there as well?

tobezuk 6y ago
Product Manager for Cloudflare Browser Isolation here. We're running Chromium under the hood and overhead is lower since the browser only receives visual updates and does not need to download invisible third party content. We're working on a detailed technical blog post which will answer your questions in more detail.
- fabrice_d 6y ago
  What about the privacy considerations? Are you keeping each user profile stored permanently in the cloud or is it somehow synced client side?

infinityplus1 6y ago

Is this like Opera Mini?

dingaling 6y ago
Yes, with the justification of security instead of inadequate client resources.

parhamn 6y ago

Looks a lot like Mighty! https://mightyapp.com/ https://mightyapp.com/ I've been working on a productivity oriented browser (early alpha here: https://cloudsynth.com https://cloudsynth.com -- sorry landing isn't complete yet). It's very obvious that those inner rendering frames can be handled by remote servers. We've managed to reduce a lot of chromes memory usage by sleeping/unmounting unused tabs transparently (where we can) and have seen a ton of performance improvement. Looking forward to swapping out the chromium rendering layer to a cloud one down the road! The security implications are interesting too. Moving the 'sandbox' to the cloud for security purposes seems like the browsers definitely missed some of their goals.

jgrahamc 6y ago

It's 1554 UTC as I write. There will be a live demo of this on cloudflare.tv in 6 minutes if people are curious.

resfirestar 6y ago

>Web browsers are the culprit behind 70% of endpoint compromises This seemed like a pretty remarkable statistic to open with (where are the Office macros? If I download a shady exe or vbs with the browser and then run it, is the browser the "culprit"?), so I googled it and found that a previous Cloudflare post [1] cites this Gartner report [2] for that statistic. Unfortunately, there is no methodology to arrive at that number: it's merely listed as an assumption. [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-isolation/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-and-remote-browser-is... [2] https://airlock.cdn.prismic.io/airlock/e0eca969-989e-44ad-b3ae-55100a05ec7e_innovation_insight_for_remot_350577.pdf https://airlock.cdn.prismic.io/airlock/e0eca969-989e-44ad-b3...

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

Sounds like their solution is approach #1 and not a new #3.

ffpip 6y ago

> It’s an open door to nearly every connected system on the planet, which is powerful and terrifying. That is it's purpose. It's not 'terrifying'.

ffpip 6y ago

It's like fullstory[0] but backwards? https://www.fullstory.com/ https://www.fullstory.com/

yosamino 6y ago

So now that all* Websites are "behind Cloudflare", the browser can also move into Cloudflare controlled networks. I'm sure that there is some snarky comment about giving up freedom in exchange for security somewhere in there.... *many enough for it to be annoying

ilaksh 6y ago
Outwardly Cloudflare seems like an amazing and great company. But at this point they have more control over the web than most governments. Or maybe all of them. So I would assume that intelligence or military cyber agencies or whatever would feel compelled to somehow hook into Cloudflare. Similar to the way I assume they have done so with other mega tech companies.

infinityplus1 6y ago

How about streaming a whole OS instead of just the browser?

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

This is how the web's re-incarnation could begin. Imagine: • 2020: Websites are too complex. The security implications are too high. Let's run all of that code remotely, and send only draw commands to the user. • 2025: Hey, developers, want your website to be faster and more efficient? Here's an API for performing certain operations directly on the user's machine. Don't worry, we've implemented everything in a limited and security-conscious way. Pinky promise the standard won't grow out of control over time. • 2040: Neo-websites are too complex. Let's run all of that code remotely... I'm not sure if I actually believe this will happen. But, consider how we got here: websites originally relied on server-side rendering, and gradually shifted to client-side rendering over time. Now, Cloudflare is offering a way to force all of that code back on to a server...

ignoramous 6y ago
What Cloudflare's announced is more than just DOM reconstruction, though. They sound very different to the likes of Opera Mini Turbo or Amazon Silk's Cloud Browser or Chrome's Fly Wheel...[0] In Cloudflare's case, the rendering happens on the server and only rasterization commands are sent to the clients similar to AWS NICE [1]. As a security product (if you trust Cloudflare), browser isolation sounds super tempting on-paper. As they mention in the blogspot, an ashtonishing 70% of the exploits are through various forms of Phishing and other attacks in the browser. DNS based blocklists (and Google SafeBrowsing) which form a viable defence against Phising can only protect you from so much [2]. So, my point is, regardless of the thin-client / thick-client cycle, there's a real value to this product. It isn't for everyone but there's no denying its utility, especially when you consider the fact that most SaaS tools are browser-friendly. I have also been following MightyApp.com that is trying to do something similar but for consumers and with focus on productivity. It is interesting to see how this would play out. If there's a huge market for this, Google is sure to pounce on it too, and then things will get real interesting... as if AMP, WebComponents [2] and Privacy Sandbox [3] weren't already enough. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774768 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774768 [1] https://aws.amazon.com/hpc/dcv/ https://aws.amazon.com/hpc/dcv/ [2] https://blogs.akamai.com/2018/01/a-death-match-of-domain-generation-algorithms.html https://blogs.akamai.com/2018/01/a-death-match-of-domain-gen... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24390324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24390324 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20767891 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20767891

modzu 6y ago

the cost is anonymity - inside their bubble you're uniqueness is guaranteed and the value of the ads just went up! hooray!

CivBase 6y ago

So... it's GeForce Now for browsers? How can they monetize this?

acarrera94 6y ago

I wonder if anyone is working on an open source version of this? I’ve seen a few Firefox and chrome docker containers, but as far as I can tell they stream through vnc.

armoredkitten 6y ago

So the company that makes browsing the web with a VPN a constant annoyance wants me to use a web browser that's completely on their server because it's "more secure"? No thanks.

diegocg 6y ago

If this works for browsers, it will work for many other programs...

riquito 6y ago

> Zero Trust week Hm, they'll be able to see every password, every url, every video frame... That's a lot of trust required to me. Cool tech though

billyzs 6y ago

What would it take to get a self-hosted version of this, preferably using FireFox on the server? How hard would it be to get plugins working as well? Would this be essentially a way of using Blink/Servo based engine on i(Pad)OS?

heipei 6y ago
Check out browserless for something that's the same direction: https://www.browserless.io/ https://www.browserless.io/
dane-pgp 6y ago
I'm imagining a slightly weirder use case where the user is on a network which replaces TLS certificates with locally-issued ones (to allow snooping, but generally not tampering), so the connection needs another layer of encryption done in the application layer. The user could load a locally saved (and audited) page in their browser which contains the JavaScript client that connects to the self-hosted version of this Cloudflare service. The client would require the user to enter a pre-shared secret which is used to encrypt and authenticate the data being sent back and forth with the server.

instaheat 6y ago

How will this affect my Cloudflare stock? Thanks.

zokier 6y ago

Not directly related to the product, but seeing more detailed, even if approximate, isochrone map of internet connectivity (similar to what that last picture is) would be really cool.

addicted 6y ago

Doesn’t Opera already do this?

jfengel 6y ago

The slogan "the network is the computer", prominently marked as (R), struck me, because that was Sun Microsystem's slogan. So I checked the TESS database, and things got weird. Nobody bothered to record it until Oracle did, in 2009: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jrw1o.2.2 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jr... but it's also marked DEAD as of 2011, without any indicator as to why. There is a live trademark, created 2018, and it does indeed belong to Cloudflare: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jrw1o.2.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4802:6jr... I suppose Oracle doesn't really see itself as taking on the Sun mantle there, but I'm surprised they'd abandon a catchy slogan. Surely they'd find some reason to use it? How long would they have to ignore it before it got marked dead; is it really just two years? Why bother to file for it in the first place?

kentonv 6y ago
Right, Oracle didn't renew the trademark, and then Cloudflare registered it. https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-network-is-the-computer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-network-is-the-computer/

corobo 6y ago

Who can see your browser history?

homakov 6y ago

This can also protect the server from attacks if it runs all sessions in isolation. All you can is click and type, no more sqli or xss that require messing with params or API. So it could be useful either way.

doublerabbit 6y ago

All a browser is, is a tabbed UI that renders HTML. That's all the internet will ever be. Rendered HTML. Until someone creates a new engine, protocol and something other then HTTP without Webkit/Gecko/V8 there will be no "re-imagining the browser". PR from Cloudflare wanting you to use their network instead of others, I don't buy it. Respect them a little trying to knock google down a peg but still a power-hungry company.