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Facebook has the worst platform in the world. It's normal to get 6 support reps in a row ask you the same identical question you've already answered 5 times in

by 55555 6y ago

Facebook has the worst platform in the world. It's normal to get 6 support reps in a row ask you the same identical question you've already answered 5 times in a single thread they can scroll up to read. Each time you reply, a new rep is assigned the ticket, and they want to maximize throughput so they just use a canned response instead of dealing with the issue. But this is normal. They also ban you by default, assuming, I think, that people who aren't legit won't appeal, so legitimate merchants need to appeal to bans multiples times just to begin buying ads. They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you. This bankrupts people who can't pause their unprofitable campaigns. My business partner was being billed ten grand daily via a banned/restricted account for weeks on end. But this is the game. I've spent millions of dollars on G/FB/etc and that's just how it goes.

caspper69 6y ago
Smells like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Is this real? salivating
- 55555 6y ago
  Yes it is real but he/we were profiting handsomely off the restricted account's spend so we weren't complaining. Not that there is anyone to complain to.
anticensor 6y ago
> Each time you reply, a new rep is assigned the ticket This is insane. > They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you. This bankrupts people who can't pause their unprofitable campaigns. This is insane too.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  And almost certainly illegal. If you refused to pay you would probably prevail in a lawsuit, and you might even have a case for extortion or fraud. (IANAL)
  - swyx 6y ago
    could you also put it on a virtual credit card that can be canceled in the event this happens?
- helsinkiandrew 6y ago
  I don't see why you wouldn't limit the spend (or end date) on a single campaign and copy or restart with smaller limits if profitable. The vague reporting of likely spend/speed of showing ads has always scared me of putting a large budget on a single campaign upfront.
nolok 6y ago
The results are also absolutely terrible. There are a ton to criticize about google's adplatform (from user data handling to transparency to semi-monopoly to ...) but at the end of day if I make a proper well targeted campaign I get matching results. Not all of them and there are some obvious false in there (ergo the need for transparency), but for every company who I have personnaly done the adwords campaign, as long as I disable the display network and make sure the campaign is well made, I get my bang for the buck. On the other hand I'm still not sure why anyone who isn't scam or retargeting advertises on facebook, its "leads" are absolutely terrible in quality. I'm the kind who is willing to spend lots of time and a/b testing on my campaign (since at the end of the day it's the source of my money), but no matter what I do it costs me between 3 and 20 times more on facebook than on google to get the same number of end game sales. It's a terrible ad network. When I dabbled in adult toys sales a while back I had to deal with adult networks ads and even THEY were better. Honestly it's impressive to me how bad it is. (ads are purely textual and non retargeted, real products or services with great reviews)
- 55555 6y ago
  The traffic quality is amazing. Your results may vary. We all put up with FB's BS because their traffic is gold. Yes the lead gen feature isnt great but if you can't profit from FB traffic you are doing something wrong.
  - nolok 6y ago
    I'm not saying I can't profit, didn't say that at all. I'm saying if I have a buck to put, it's worth several times more on adwords than on fb. If you are traffic starved then sure fb could be usefull but I suspect the vast majority of small/medium business runs out of ad budget before they run out of adwords growth capabilities, and they value qualified leads much more than raw traffic. Again OF COURSE it varies by business and I'm sure other people have the opposite experience, but mine has been clear cut and I shared it.
    - aerosmile 6y ago
      You shared it without enough nuance, and that turned it into misleading information for most people out there. The fact that you wrote a lengthy piece and gave yourself a lot of credit as a marketer only further exacerbated the negative learnings for anyone who read your first piece. I am glad you received an immediate rebuttal, which leads me to hope that not too many young entrepreneurs were led to turn their back on what's arguably one of the most important marketing channels, and for many companies the only viable one.
berdario 6y ago
> Each time you reply, a new rep is assigned the ticket I recently had to open a support ticket with Paypal, they are exactly the same, unfortunately I understand the incentives that led to this, but it's still crazy to think about it, since it's obviously a worse use of time for everyone (both me and their agents) just to get some metrics to go up
staticautomatic 6y ago
"They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you." This smells like a lawsuit.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I think this is something that would be illegal in almost every country on earth. But there are probably more fun and cheaper things than getting Facebook in front of a judge.
ianai 6y ago
Those charging practices sound like something that either is outright illegal or should be.
justaguyhere 6y ago
Why use FB at all? I understand they have the audience, but if they treat you so poorly to the point of bankruptcy, what is the point? Aren't you encouraging bad behaviour by sticking with them?
rattray 6y ago
Who has the best ad platform in the world?
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Don't follow the platforms. Follow the advertisers. Do whatever Coca-Cola, McDonald's, and the other big and hugely successful advertisers do. They have entire staffs to make sure their ads end up in the right places at the right prices. See what your competitor is doing, and then do slightly better. Assuming you can afford it.
pc86 6y ago
Is this new? I used to run FB ads for my brick and mortar ca. 2016-18 to the tune of about $1k/day at it's height (I know that's not a lot necessarily just providing context). I never had any issues at all, the experience was actually pretty great. But, I've heard similar stories to yours from a lot of people so I know it happened I'm just curious if it was a change in the last couple years or if I just got insanely lucky.
- 55555 6y ago
  Yes the ad platform has gotten more and more poorly managed and the relationship between media buyers and Facebook Ads more and more antagonistic. In the early days it was great.
fxtentacle 6y ago
I'd say it is kind of the new normal that companies treat their customers like criminals. Locking away your backpack in a supermarket, bag inspections in the cinema, online tracking, and captchas. And good luck if you ever get annoyed at the barrage of unnecessary captchas and just click random stuff... You'll get shadowbanned. Because nothing says "robot" more clearly than getting offended by useless interruptions.
bluetidepro 6y ago
> They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you. This bankrupts people who can't pause their unprofitable campaigns. My business partner was being billed ten grand daily via a banned/restricted account for weeks on end. Why would you not just call your bank up, and get it charged back/refunded at that point? Thus Facebook would probably "ban" you (like most merchants when you do a chargeback), but since you're already restricted, who cares. At least you aren't losing money from them.
- 55555 6y ago
  That's what people do, when they're losing money. We were making money, so we let it keep spending.
johnward 6y ago
> hey also ban you by default, assuming, I think I had my account banned the last 3 times I created a new ad. None were against their policies. My account go reinstated each time but still.

by 55555 6y ago

caspper69 6y ago

Smells like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Is this real? salivating

55555 6y ago
Yes it is real but he/we were profiting handsomely off the restricted account's spend so we weren't complaining. Not that there is anyone to complain to.

anticensor 6y ago

> Each time you reply, a new rep is assigned the ticket This is insane. > They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you. This bankrupts people who can't pause their unprofitable campaigns. This is insane too.

dreamcompiler 6y ago
And almost certainly illegal. If you refused to pay you would probably prevail in a lawsuit, and you might even have a case for extortion or fraud. (IANAL)
- swyx 6y ago
  could you also put it on a virtual credit card that can be canceled in the event this happens?
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
I don't see why you wouldn't limit the spend (or end date) on a single campaign and copy or restart with smaller limits if profitable. The vague reporting of likely spend/speed of showing ads has always scared me of putting a large budget on a single campaign upfront.

nolok 6y ago

The results are also absolutely terrible. There are a ton to criticize about google's adplatform (from user data handling to transparency to semi-monopoly to ...) but at the end of day if I make a proper well targeted campaign I get matching results. Not all of them and there are some obvious false in there (ergo the need for transparency), but for every company who I have personnaly done the adwords campaign, as long as I disable the display network and make sure the campaign is well made, I get my bang for the buck. On the other hand I'm still not sure why anyone who isn't scam or retargeting advertises on facebook, its "leads" are absolutely terrible in quality. I'm the kind who is willing to spend lots of time and a/b testing on my campaign (since at the end of the day it's the source of my money), but no matter what I do it costs me between 3 and 20 times more on facebook than on google to get the same number of end game sales. It's a terrible ad network. When I dabbled in adult toys sales a while back I had to deal with adult networks ads and even THEY were better. Honestly it's impressive to me how bad it is. (ads are purely textual and non retargeted, real products or services with great reviews)

55555 6y ago
The traffic quality is amazing. Your results may vary. We all put up with FB's BS because their traffic is gold. Yes the lead gen feature isnt great but if you can't profit from FB traffic you are doing something wrong.
- nolok 6y ago
  I'm not saying I can't profit, didn't say that at all. I'm saying if I have a buck to put, it's worth several times more on adwords than on fb. If you are traffic starved then sure fb could be usefull but I suspect the vast majority of small/medium business runs out of ad budget before they run out of adwords growth capabilities, and they value qualified leads much more than raw traffic. Again OF COURSE it varies by business and I'm sure other people have the opposite experience, but mine has been clear cut and I shared it.
  - aerosmile 6y ago
    You shared it without enough nuance, and that turned it into misleading information for most people out there. The fact that you wrote a lengthy piece and gave yourself a lot of credit as a marketer only further exacerbated the negative learnings for anyone who read your first piece. I am glad you received an immediate rebuttal, which leads me to hope that not too many young entrepreneurs were led to turn their back on what's arguably one of the most important marketing channels, and for many companies the only viable one.

berdario 6y ago

> Each time you reply, a new rep is assigned the ticket I recently had to open a support ticket with Paypal, they are exactly the same, unfortunately I understand the incentives that led to this, but it's still crazy to think about it, since it's obviously a worse use of time for everyone (both me and their agents) just to get some metrics to go up

staticautomatic 6y ago

"They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you." This smells like a lawsuit.

raxxorrax 6y ago
I think this is something that would be illegal in almost every country on earth. But there are probably more fun and cheaper things than getting Facebook in front of a judge.

ianai 6y ago

Those charging practices sound like something that either is outright illegal or should be.

justaguyhere 6y ago

Why use FB at all? I understand they have the audience, but if they treat you so poorly to the point of bankruptcy, what is the point? Aren't you encouraging bad behaviour by sticking with them?

rattray 6y ago

Who has the best ad platform in the world?

reaperducer 6y ago
Don't follow the platforms. Follow the advertisers. Do whatever Coca-Cola, McDonald's, and the other big and hugely successful advertisers do. They have entire staffs to make sure their ads end up in the right places at the right prices. See what your competitor is doing, and then do slightly better. Assuming you can afford it.

pc86 6y ago

Is this new? I used to run FB ads for my brick and mortar ca. 2016-18 to the tune of about $1k/day at it's height (I know that's not a lot necessarily just providing context). I never had any issues at all, the experience was actually pretty great. But, I've heard similar stories to yours from a lot of people so I know it happened I'm just curious if it was a change in the last couple years or if I just got insanely lucky.

55555 6y ago
Yes the ad platform has gotten more and more poorly managed and the relationship between media buyers and Facebook Ads more and more antagonistic. In the early days it was great.

fxtentacle 6y ago

I'd say it is kind of the new normal that companies treat their customers like criminals. Locking away your backpack in a supermarket, bag inspections in the cinema, online tracking, and captchas. And good luck if you ever get annoyed at the barrage of unnecessary captchas and just click random stuff... You'll get shadowbanned. Because nothing says "robot" more clearly than getting offended by useless interruptions.

bluetidepro 6y ago

> They also restrict your account so you can't do anything, but they leave the ads running and keep billing you. This bankrupts people who can't pause their unprofitable campaigns. My business partner was being billed ten grand daily via a banned/restricted account for weeks on end. Why would you not just call your bank up, and get it charged back/refunded at that point? Thus Facebook would probably "ban" you (like most merchants when you do a chargeback), but since you're already restricted, who cares. At least you aren't losing money from them.

55555 6y ago
That's what people do, when they're losing money. We were making money, so we let it keep spending.

johnward 6y ago

> hey also ban you by default, assuming, I think I had my account banned the last 3 times I created a new ad. None were against their policies. My account go reinstated each time but still.