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Apple iPhone 12: The chip advance set to make smartphones smarter
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mahkeiro 6y agoA funny things is that we keep hearing about US only tech power, but AMSL (NL), is needed by TSMC (TW) to engrave a reference design by ARM (UK). But US is going one more time to limit EU tech by getting its hand on both ARM and AMSL as they previously did with many EU tech companies... At one point EU should realize that the US are playing the same game as the Chinese and are really not business friend.
- lnsru 6y agoARM isn’t UK company since 2016. Maybe current situation isn’t that bad and will lead to international RISC-V explosion.
- mahkeiro 6y agoAgain this shareholder nationality things? (A Japanese shareholder don’t make ARM a Japanese company). Because by this metric a lot of US companies are not US... (a couple of them can even be Norwegian or Saudi despite having no presence were there shareholders resides).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kqvamxurcagg 6y agoI've been involved with many international groups where the controlling shareholders have a different domicile to the operating company. The shareholders will always call the shots. They can replace operating teams, restructure the business and transfer technology. The ultimate shareholder has control - have absolutely no doubt about that.
- simonh 6y agoFrom an economic perspective that's not really the issue, it's the facilities, employment, skills and access to technology that governments mainly care about. Who the owner is only really matters to the extent that it influences those facts on the ground. Any owner could move the company's operations, no matter what their nationality.
- bjorn2k 6y agoAlso Cymer is a US company acquired by ASML (https://www.asml.com/en/company/about-asml/cymer https://www.asml.com/en/company/about-asml/cymer). They provide the technology for EUV source.
- parsimo2010 6y agoThe EU knows this, but they will continue to comply with US trade sanctions until they can live without the US in all areas. A giant hurdle (but not the only one) is NATO and being able to counter Russia. While NATO and the EU are separate, many countries are members of both. If the EU took a hard stance and said that they value trade with China more than the US's security complaints, the US could very well use that as an excuse to pull troops out of Europe. And if anyone thinks that doesn't matter, just know that a Russian invasion (or more likely erosion of borders) is something that terrifies EU leaders far more than missing out on sales to China.
- akie 6y agoAll this talk about NATO still being an active entity in the protection of Europe is dangerous and hopelessly naïve. As long as Trump is president, I don't think we need to have any illusions as to which side he would chose in a hypothetical armed conflict between the EU and Russia (he would pick no side). EU politicians should wake up and smell the coffee, and invest in an EU army before it's too late. We really (desperately) need strategic independence from the US and other foreign powers. The US in particular has been an unpredictable, unreliable, and untrustworthy partner in the past two decades or so (e.g. Iran deal, Paris climate accords, Iraq war, EU-US trade wars, ...) EDIT: Stop downvoting me and tell me instead where I'm wrong.
- DFHippie 6y ago> As long as Trump is president So until January 21st.
- parsimo2010 6y ago> EU politicians should wake up and smell the coffee, and invest in an EU army before it’s too late They could, but at least in the short term it appears to be cheaper to let the US spend the money on their military and still get the benefits, even factoring some lost trade to China. It would take many $123mm lithography machines to make up for the billions they would need to create a standing army. That trade off will change, but everything hinges on the “before it’s too late” part of your argument, which you can be assured that virtually no democratically elected politician will get right, since they are looking at <10 years by nature of political campaigns.
- mtgx 6y agoSame with Qualcomm trying to buy NXP (also from NL). It only failed because the Chinese gov refused to accept the merger. But the EU had already agreed to it. The UK should have never agreed to Google buying DeepMind either. These companies have tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars in cash. They can afford to "create" a new competitor in the market, rather than take out OUT of the market, and it we would all be better off. I really think all $100+ million acquisitions of companies should enter automatic anti-trust review. Maybe even lower than that. These acquisitions by large companies hurt consumers in two ways. Either they squander the disruptive technology and nothing comes out of it, slowing down progress for everyone, or they put it to good use and then they get to maintain or extend their dominant positions - and we don't want any of that to happen as consumers. We want these large companies to continue to have healthy competition. It's better for consumers and it's better for the job market, too (fewer companies in the market = fewer job hunting opportunities = downward pressure on salaries).
- kabes 6y agoAnd IMEC (BE) is pretty important in that chain as well
- mschuster91 6y ago> At one point EU should realize that the US are playing the same game as the Chinese and are really not business friend. While I (as a German) agree that the US imperialism and dominance in high tech is a problem, I would not go as low and say the US is on the same level as China, which is an outright threat to all core values of the Western nations.
- someguydave 6y agoyes, for one thing German companies can and do purchase and operate US subsidiaries without much government interference, unlike in China
- oblio 6y agoI find the irony of your comment quite funny. I'm assuming the previous comment about "core Western values" wasn't referring to "unfettered capitalism" but to stuff like "democracy", "respect of human rights", ... :-)
- hajile 6y agoCapitalism is fundamentally as flawed as people are -- but it beats everything else by a huge margin. If you're going to parse hairs, democracy is inherently NOT a "western value". Alexander Hamilton went on at great length in the early federalist papers about the fate of democracies. All failed rather quickly. We formed a republic with democratic elements BECAUSE direct democracy is so tyrannical and doesn't protect minority groups leading to it's downfall. Despite all the complaints, I'd love to see a country throughout history with better treatment of minorities. That country just doesn't exist and countries making things better for minorities over time was even less known at the USA founding. Finally, foreign affairs are much closer to anarcho-capitalism than anything which implies that anarcho-capitalism is the most free one could theoretically be (though the immediate fall into despotism would make the short-lived freedom of little value).
- someguydave 6y ago
- bgorman 6y agoIntel, a US company provided ASML the funds to develop their latest technology (EUV). (https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-and-asml-reach-agreements-to-accelerate-key-next-generation-semiconductor-manufacturing-technologies/ https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-and-asml-reac...) In retrospect, Intel should have insisted on much more onerous terms. There are other suppliers who make photolithography equipment, if ASML went bankrupt, the industry would just fund the competitors.
- pieterr 6y agoYour link is from 2012. Five years later, Intel reduced their stake in ASML. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-intel-stake/intel-reduces-stake-in-asml-to-below-3-percent-idUSKCN1MM0QD https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-intel-stake/...
- bitcurious 6y agoOn ARM: > The company was founded in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd and structured as a joint venture between Acorn Computers, Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.) and VLSI Technology. > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm_Holdings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm_Holdings
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- SkyMarshal 6y agoHow is the US getting ASML? I hadn't heard anything about that.
- supernova87a 6y agoWell, super interesting, in that it is the first time I'd heard of a tin plasma laser (produces the EUV)!
- bleepblorp 6y agoIf you think about it, it's deeply depressing how much incredibly interesting technology (and cumulative human effort) goes into portable computing devices that have the primary commercial purpose of forcing people to look at advertising. There's something deeply wrong when the best purpose humanity can find for all the effort that goes into things like 5G and EUV lithography is to use it to keep people addicted to Facebook and unregulated gambling ("game with in-app payment") apps.
- diydsp 6y agoI believe that's the initial, scribbled signature of homo sapiens and post-modernism. We're past survival and aware enough to know something is up, but highly susceptible to our instincts and especially to control by others. While we could survive with so little work, others keep us in artifical scarcity to elevate their quality of life and protect themselves from people more predatory than them.
- autosharp 6y agoNah, that is just the funding mechanism for the tech but not the actual objective.
- pradn 6y agoIt's torturous to claim that phones have a "primary commercial purpose of forcing people to look at advertising". Most people would say phones are for talking to loved ones, having fun, getting the news, and playing games. Just today, I skimmed the NYT and FT, read about the Polish author Jan Potocki (and tweeted out quotes from the article), emailed my landlord, and reminisced with friends about our favorite biscuit shop. Perhaps I saw some ads, incidentally. I realize not everyone is doing what I'm doing. But, seeing my friends' baby's pictures and all on Facebook isn't altogether worthless. There's a limit to useful cynicism.
- bb101 6y agoGood work by the BBC, introducing us to the technology that many of us use without even considering its complexities.
- amelius 6y ago> That it has been, is in large part down to the ingenuity of a relatively obscure Dutch company - ASML. I hope they charge Apple 30% for every phone sold.
- martimarkov 6y agoWhy should they do that?
- naveen_ 6y agoThat will only make Apple to increase the price 30% for every phone... and transfer that burden to customer. Apple doesn't like to comprosmise on their profits. (Saying based on Apple's response to current Govt. Tax system)
- jryle70 6y agoASML's revenue has tripled since 2007 - [0]. Stock price increased ten fold. I'm sure they don't complain about how things turn out for them thanks to the proliferation of mobile devices after iPhone. [0]- https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ASML/asml-holding/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ASML/asml-holding/...
- amelius 6y ago> I'm sure they don't complain about how things turn out for them Apple also shouldn't complain, but still they let the consumer pay twice: once for the phone, and then the tax.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- a5withtrrs 6y agoCool tech. And I'm all for making integrated circuits and components more dense and space efficient. But I also wish that wouldn't result in the devices getting unreasonably thin/fragile. I'd rather have a sturdier device with 2-3x the battery capacity any day. As it is, I put a bulky case/screen protector and carry a spare battery and cable. Not exactly an ideal solution.
- deergomoo 6y ago> But I also wish that wouldn't result in the devices getting unreasonably thin/fragile. I'd rather have a sturdier device with 2-3x the battery capacity any day Is that still the case though? I'm not sure about the Android world, but the last several iPhones have been getting thicker and heavier with bigger batteries, to the point that I would say the iPhone 11 is heavier than I'd like. Fragility I agree with, but I think it's less the thinness and more that every high-end phone now has a glass back for wireless charging. I tend not to use cases and I've never once charged my phone wirelessly (and really don't care about it), so I wish there was an option for an aluminium back.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoThere's some phone manufacturers that optimize for battery capacity and / or sturdiness; CAT has lent their brand to stupidly sturdy phones that can be yote freely (https://www.catphones.com/ https://www.catphones.com/).
- a5withtrrs 6y agoThis is actually fantastic, I can't believe I haven't seen it before. Especially the Pro variant with a thermal camera. Thanks!
- Analemma_ 6y agoEvery generation of the iPhone after the 6 has been thicker, with more battery capacity, than the previous one. Where is this meme about "they just keep making the phones thinner with worse battery life" coming from?
- mtgx 6y agoI don't get it. Didn't we already know about the 5nm A14, which seems to add just slight CPU improvement over the A12?
- mensetmanusman 6y agoWill be interesting when Biden is elected and pulls back on all this anti-China stuff.
- simonh 6y agoI don't think the anti-China stuff is going away regardless of the election. Maybe some of the more egregious footgun stuff and the more petty sanctions and goading that are mainly for show, but the fact is there have been brewing disputes with China for a long time and Trump has brought them to a head. However beating down on China over their behaviour only achieves anything if it changes that behaviour, otherwise what the heck are we doing? I don't think Trump has it in him to actually solve those problems. I'm not entirely sure Biden does either, but even if he doesn't at least there's a chance he might listen to people who do.
- ianai 6y agoThe market would soar after ending the tariffs.
- skygazer 6y agoThe market is a Paperclip Maximizer.
- jm4 6y agoThe market is also incredibly shortsighted most of the time. Trump being obnoxious and overall just bad - depending on your perspective - and Trump being right to want to do something about China are not mutually exclusive. It was a growing problem that needed to be addressed. I hope the president for the next 4 years and beyond handles it well.
- ianai 6y agoHow does a country of 300 million go up against a country of 1.4 billion in any way based on per capita aggregates? Previous administrations saw the “baby” elephant for what it was and decided to introduce it to the world on US terms instead of Chinese terms. That’s basically what Kissinger says Mao communicated to him when they met-that China would surpass the US someday and they were planning for it centuries out if needed. There is a silver lining though. The US land is more fertile and has greater resources than China. It’s also got a more diverse system across the board - and the world stage typically prefers the US to China (at least before Trump). You tell me how the US positions itself any better than what it did and now seeks to undo.
- jonplackett 6y agoOK so I hope to br proven wrong, but the stats for the iPad Air don't really back this up being such a big deal. They compare it to the A12 for a start rather than the A13 of last year, so it can't be that big of a leap. Plus it's clocked faster which would account for almost all of the increase in performance from the A13. I'm sure it's a solid new chip - as always - but I see no evidence of a particularly massive revolution this year, in the iPhone or iPad Air. Of course the rumoured 16 core version for MacBook (maybe iPad Pro too?) is a different matter! That's where I'm excited.
- easton 6y agoThey compare it to the A12 I think because the iPad Pro and previous iPad Air (I believe, can’t remember) were both running A12 variants. It may still have something over the A13, but if they are trying to convince people to upgrade they probably want to compare it to the previous gen.
- hajile 6y agoThe issue is more fundamental. Apple hasn't made any computing breakthroughs. They got a lot of gains by going super-wide to extract obvious parallel performance. They are now at the point where adding more units costs more than it offers (at present). Their fundamental advantage over x86 is that aarch64 is less quirky, so implementing good ideas takes less time. Their only "easy" dial left is ramping clocks, but that's linear power scaling, so it doesn't matter too much for their portable electronics. I'd guess they'll be focusing a lot more on data locality and caching. It's probably 5-10% gains every couple years from here on out.
- jonplackett 6y agoI think this was borne out pretty well with the announcement. Most of the 'breakthrough' tech enabled by A14 was just stuff the A13 could already do just fine. They spent about 10 minutes talking about deep fusion FFS. (still buying one though...)
- egsmi 6y ago
- st1x7 6y ago> the tiny on-off switches are now only about 25 atoms wide Speaking as someone completely clueless about the engineering at that level... damn, that's impressive.
- egsmi 6y agoThat would be impressive, unfortunately it is not correct. You can see this article, and the comments, for more information. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24618031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24618031
- otikik 6y agoI used to like that my tech was "smarter". Last night my son took my earphones from the table to play with them, and I spent an inordinate amount of time looking for them (they ended up in the terrace!). But this morning I got several ads on youtube for headphones. I don't like this one bit.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- wruza 6y agoMy coworker told me stories like this and I thought that it was a coincidence or he just googled similar keywords without remembering it. But then I got a new phone and one day it (very unusually) suggested me anti-diarrhea pills. It was an interesting sensation, because guess what I was doing for last ten minutes before seeing this ads.
- wltprgm 6y agothe machine learning on A14 is still slower than Qualcomm and Samsung chips [0] Android smartphones are smarter than iPhone technically by the article's common sense [0] https://youtu.be/F_IsBD6E3O4 https://youtu.be/F_IsBD6E3O4
- saagarjha 6y agoNobody has these chips in their hands, so I would treat any claims with skepticism at this point.
- wltprgm 6y agohttps://youtu.be/F_IsBD6E3O4?t=801 https://youtu.be/F_IsBD6E3O4?t=801 13:21 in the video clearly shows that Snapdragon 865 already at 15 TOPS while A14 only has 11 TOPS how is that skepticism?
- helsinkiandrew 6y ago> A nanometre is one billionth of a metre. That's roughly the speed a human hair grows every second. That’s a great fact to impress friends and family with.
- gen3 6y agoIn the past I've heard it called a "Beard second" :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard-second https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard-second
- criddell 6y agoA demonstration that always stuck with me is from when Grace Hopper was on David Letterman. She had a piece of wire about 30cm long to show how far light travels in a nanosecond. Then she pulled out a little packet of pepper to show how far light travels in a picosecond.