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I think it’s an absolutely insane idea that you’re supposed to use five days of the week working, and then the remaining two working on something else. Weekends

by nikanj 6y ago

I think it’s an absolutely insane idea that you’re supposed to use five days of the week working, and then the remaining two working on something else. Weekends are for resting and recovery.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
And building relationships with people not computers.
o_class_star 6y ago
It used to be six and a half. It became five because a bunch of people were smart enough to figure out their bosses weren't their friends, and fought for a shorter workweek (also reducing unemployment and increasing the value of each worker). We've gotten lazy, collectively speaking, and the bosses have crept it back up to five-plus-some-extras. Five is still ridiculous, though. There's so much waste in the system these days; the world would run fine on a three-day week. It's time for working people to get fighting again.
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  I would be fine working six and a half days per week. Given a full work day was considered to be 2 hours.
  - wccrawford 6y ago
    I couldn't believe that a "work day" was ever 2 hours, so I looked it up. https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/84600/how-many-hours-did-people-work-in-history https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/84600/how-many-hours-d... That says 3-5, and it was a long time ago.
    - CameronNemo 6y ago
      My comment was meant to convey conditionality. As in I would happily work those days if I had those hours. Thanks for the interesting link. If I only worked 2 hours a day on a computer, I would likely spend my free time on hunter-gatherer-gardener-cook tasks. Perhaps art and science as well.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- nradov 6y ago
  It used to be six and a half until higher farm yields and productivity gains from automation produced enough surplus to even allow for less. From the dawn of urban civilization until well into the industrial revolution there was barely enough food to keep the population alive. Even if the bosses had been nicer about it that wouldn't have kept people from starving. Yes I am aware that early hunter gatherers worked fewer hours per week and generally had better diets. But that lifestyle wasn't sustainable after the human population expanded.
  - jbay808 6y ago
    At least in Judaism, all forms of labour, including domestic labour, has been strictly banned on Saturday, for centuries at least. They managed to survive alright. More to the point, a recent series of history blog posts discussed this question, and it seems like for most of the population, the food supply was not really limited by labour but rather by food storage ability and land area productivity (which is different). For much of the year aside from during the harvest, there was a lot of leisure time (even if people were starving, that wasn't something that harder work would necessarily solve). https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-farmers/ https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they...
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      Livestock require care 7 days a week, even by the frum.
  - jariel 6y ago
    It was 'on the farm' on 'your own terms' before the industrialized revolutions, may have included some Sunday work. But the number of hours worked rose quite a lot during the Industrial revolution in the mines and factories, this was 'peak work'. Some data points [1]. [1] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  This, but I want to emphasize: “fought” is literal here, at least in terms of employers’ response. The reality is that the notion that we even get to decide whether to rest on weekends or labor is entirely owed to the fact that people who came before us got literally killed to pave the way.
ilaksh 6y ago
The basic idea is that many people can't really get ahead on their salary. And people like me are wasting most of their energy building wealth for other people. So building a product or service seems like a primary way to get control of my life and stop putting all of my effort to benefit someone else. The weekend is usually the only opportunity to do it. If I could quit my job and have someone give me a bunch of seed money for my project then I would. That's not going to happen. I don't have the connections or charisma and even if I had it, they are just research ideas right now. So for me it's very sane to spend time on the weekends working on my project and I do feel guilty when I don't put enough time into it. Because I just know that I need to build my own thing if I am going to have financial security.
- nullsense 6y ago
  Probably team up with someone with connections and charisma else you build it and they just don't come and nor are you the kind of person to go out and get them to come and the whole thing goes nowhere and your productive weekends were all just a waste. Source: experience

by nikanj 6y ago

I think it’s an absolutely insane idea that you’re supposed to use five days of the week working, and then the remaining two working on something else. Weekends are for resting and recovery.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

And building relationships with people not computers.

o_class_star 6y ago

It used to be six and a half. It became five because a bunch of people were smart enough to figure out their bosses weren't their friends, and fought for a shorter workweek (also reducing unemployment and increasing the value of each worker). We've gotten lazy, collectively speaking, and the bosses have crept it back up to five-plus-some-extras. Five is still ridiculous, though. There's so much waste in the system these days; the world would run fine on a three-day week. It's time for working people to get fighting again.

CameronNemo 6y ago
I would be fine working six and a half days per week. Given a full work day was considered to be 2 hours.
- wccrawford 6y ago
  I couldn't believe that a "work day" was ever 2 hours, so I looked it up. https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/84600/how-many-hours-did-people-work-in-history https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/84600/how-many-hours-d... That says 3-5, and it was a long time ago.
  - CameronNemo 6y ago
    My comment was meant to convey conditionality. As in I would happily work those days if I had those hours. Thanks for the interesting link. If I only worked 2 hours a day on a computer, I would likely spend my free time on hunter-gatherer-gardener-cook tasks. Perhaps art and science as well.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
nradov 6y ago
It used to be six and a half until higher farm yields and productivity gains from automation produced enough surplus to even allow for less. From the dawn of urban civilization until well into the industrial revolution there was barely enough food to keep the population alive. Even if the bosses had been nicer about it that wouldn't have kept people from starving. Yes I am aware that early hunter gatherers worked fewer hours per week and generally had better diets. But that lifestyle wasn't sustainable after the human population expanded.
- jbay808 6y ago
  At least in Judaism, all forms of labour, including domestic labour, has been strictly banned on Saturday, for centuries at least. They managed to survive alright. More to the point, a recent series of history blog posts discussed this question, and it seems like for most of the population, the food supply was not really limited by labour but rather by food storage ability and land area productivity (which is different). For much of the year aside from during the harvest, there was a lot of leisure time (even if people were starving, that wasn't something that harder work would necessarily solve). https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-farmers/ https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they...
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Livestock require care 7 days a week, even by the frum.
- jariel 6y ago
  It was 'on the farm' on 'your own terms' before the industrialized revolutions, may have included some Sunday work. But the number of hours worked rose quite a lot during the Industrial revolution in the mines and factories, this was 'peak work'. Some data points [1]. [1] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w...
eyelidlessness 6y ago
This, but I want to emphasize: “fought” is literal here, at least in terms of employers’ response. The reality is that the notion that we even get to decide whether to rest on weekends or labor is entirely owed to the fact that people who came before us got literally killed to pave the way.

ilaksh 6y ago

The basic idea is that many people can't really get ahead on their salary. And people like me are wasting most of their energy building wealth for other people. So building a product or service seems like a primary way to get control of my life and stop putting all of my effort to benefit someone else. The weekend is usually the only opportunity to do it. If I could quit my job and have someone give me a bunch of seed money for my project then I would. That's not going to happen. I don't have the connections or charisma and even if I had it, they are just research ideas right now. So for me it's very sane to spend time on the weekends working on my project and I do feel guilty when I don't put enough time into it. Because I just know that I need to build my own thing if I am going to have financial security.

nullsense 6y ago
Probably team up with someone with connections and charisma else you build it and they just don't come and nor are you the kind of person to go out and get them to come and the whole thing goes nowhere and your productive weekends were all just a waste. Source: experience