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I'm guessing this was flagged by their nipple detection algorithm. Personally, I think it's time for our society to grow out of that phase, the whole nipple cen
by didibus 6y ago
I'm guessing this was flagged by their nipple detection algorithm. Personally, I think it's time for our society to grow out of that phase, the whole nipple censoring is just ridiculous at this point. Can we change the laws around it? Or why is that even still in place?
- Igelau 6y agoSeriously. Sometimes I think everything wrong with America would gradually settle down if we could just collectively disillusion ourselves from the notion that human female nipples are an indecent horrid thing.
- eden_hazard 6y agoCause everyone being naked is the pinnacle of society?
- krapp 6y agoNot caring about it is better than caring about it so much we wind up with robots censoring images of onions lest they offend our Puritan sensibilities with their lascivious roundness.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 6y agoThe more I think about it, the weirder becomes the fact that the one and only part of human anatomy that is specifically made to go into a baby’s mouth is a sex symbol. If it had been men’s nipples, which are otherwise useless, that had been sexualised, that would’ve been much less weird; but it’s fine for me to go around topless and nobody cares.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoIt's a pretty standard type of signal. Only females nurse -> nipples are a signal of being female. Females are sexually interesting -> nipples excite sexual interest, because they are indicators of femaleness.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoIt would be, but that's not the signal. Men conflate women's sexuality with child rearing to control women > men insist women cover voluptuous body parts > men exploit women's sexuality with modesty constraint for additional power and control > men decide women's nipples are hidden = modesty, and sexualize women's nipples > nipples somehow mean something different if they're attached to a woman
- thaumasiotes 6y agoYour theory fails to explain why women have breasts. (Compare monkeys, which don't.)
- eyelidlessness 6y agoMen have breasts. Also, my "theory" doesn't need to explain why women have breasts?
- eyelidlessness 6y agoHN you disappoint me. No basic science, no basic reading comprehension. Just downvotes for not playing along with easily discarded misogyny
- Igelau 6y agoIf I had to guess, compared to other primates it takes human young too long to be any good for anything. Permanent breasts would make cross-nursing more feasible in the event that a mother died or couldn't produce enough during scarcity. No sources or background, just throwing darts at a plausible "the ones who didn't died" scenario.
- autokad 6y agoto me its no surprise at all. there are good articles and youtube videos on why woman's boobs are sexy. the common denominator is that in all societies all boobs are considered sexy. lindybeige's channel suggested it may have to do with some sort of trickery. ie the woman wants to be protected so they are always 'full' unlike other animals. I think the fact that they are considered sexy across all cultures regardless of shape/size tells us something obvious. they are to show the woman is of mating age.
- xkcd-sucks 6y agoTo be fair, basically every body part can be sexy (on an attractive ~= reproductive age person). Hair, feet, thighs, face, eyes, back, etc
- ben_w 6y agoI mean specifically the nipples, not the entire boob. It isn’t considered nudity (at least in the places I’ve been) for a woman to expose any part of their breast except the nipple itself. That (plus men’s nipples being so boring nobody even thinks to mention them) is what I find weird. That does raise one obvious question: is the cultural difference (1) a real difference of sexualisation of body parts, or (2) does the average [†] hetero women look at topless men the same way that the average [†] hereto man looks at topless women, but society as a whole hasn’t noticed because it is male-dominated and not enough men in power ask women? {As an aside: In the context lindybeige would be an example of argument from authority fallacy; expecting him to be right about comparative global sexuality is like expecting sexplanations to be right about comparing the relative merits of ancient Athenian and Persian armour. That doesn’t mean he must be wrong (if I said that I world be making the fallacy fallacy), but surely there is a better example to use than him?} [†] to emphasise: average as in “no I can’t just ask my exes that would be anecdotes”
- op03 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_motivation_and_hormones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_motivation_and_hormones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory
- Lio 6y agoI remember reading a Desmond Morris book that put forward the theory that female human breasts developed, unlike those of other animals, to mimic the sexualised female bum and encourage the missionary during sex. The theory is that this aids with conception. ...and as for you going topless in public, actually we do care; nobody wants to see that. ;)
- tshaddox 6y agoYou’re using a definition of “naked” that depends on your particular societal views, so that’s a circular question. Most people don’t where clothing over their hands in public, but you probably don’t call that “naked.” What reason is there to cover one’s nipples unless it’s for comfort, protection, or warmth?
- krapp 6y ago>What reason is there to cover one’s nipples unless it’s for comfort, protection, or warmth? Several thousand years of Judeo-Christian cultural indoctrination teaching that because Eve tempted Adam into original sin, women and their bodies are inherently unclean and can lead men astray, and thus are to be treated as taboo.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- reaperducer 6y agoSeveral thousand years of Judeo-Christian cultural indoctrination teaching that because Eve tempted Adam into original sin, women and their bodies are inherently unclean and can lead men astray, and thus are to be treated as taboo. This was going on long before Judeo-Christianity existed, and in almost every single culture on the planet before each made contact with the first Christian.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- krapp 6y agoNevertheless, as far as the Western world is concerned (and the US in particular,) Christianity has been the primary influence on the nature and culture of sexual morality. Almost all of our gender views and stereotypes can be traced back to the Bible in some form or another, among them the prejudice that female sexuality exists to serve men, and that the female body is inherently more vulgar than the male.
- 6y ago
- ves 6y agoSomething need not be the pinnacle for it to not be horrid.
- carapace 6y agoGreek statues.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago...well, I don't. Changing obscenity standards is not going to help us with climate change, for instance, or do much against COVID-19.
- mdifrgechd 6y agoThis attitude is a real problem for society: leaving outdated laws on the books just because they are not the most pressing issue encourages bureaucracy, a bloated enforcement system, and worst of all selective enforcement that can mean its easier to find a way to punish groups society generally doesn't dislike. I think there should be a regular purge of old laws as we should be deliberately retaining the ones we still feel are relevant. Just because this sort of thing doesnt rise to the level of the crisis de jour is not a reason to ignore it.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoSorry, I was responding to the parent saying: > I think _everything wrong with America would gradually settle down_ if we could just collectively disillusion ourselves from the notion that human female nipples are an indecent horrid thing. Emphasis added—I should have re-quoted in my post, as I think it got lost. It's not that our obscenity standards are good or that we should ignore that problem—but it's not going to magically solve everything else too!
- save_ferris 6y agoBecause it’s illegal in many places. A female exposing her nipples in public is considered an act of public indecency in states like Illinois, which is a misdemeanor[0]. Edit: not that I agree with this law. It’s a very clear double-standard with roots in conservative Christian thinking. 0: https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a19545146/nipple-double-standard/ https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a19545146/nipple-double...
- tedunangst 6y agoIt's unclear how that Illinois law would apply to advertisements posted on Facebook.
- filoleg 6y ago>A female exposing her nipples in public is considered an act of public indecency in states like Illinois, which is a misdemeanor This is a very bad comparison. That's like saying "drinking on the street in public is illegal in many states, so showing any visual references to people drinking on Facebook is potentially illegal and should be removed".
- DenisM 6y ago>> Can we change the laws around it? Or why is that even still in place? > Because it’s illegal in many places. So... it's illegal because it's illegal?
- anuila 6y agoThat's the logic around most "moral" laws.
- reaperducer 6y agoroots in conservative Christian thinking This existed thousands of years before the first Christian, and in almost every culture on the planet. You might want to re-examine your biases to figure out why you assume that things you disagree with are automatically "conservative Christian thinking."
- bitL 6y agoBecause it creates an automatic subconscious response (excitement) in males. I guess brain is built that way for the sake of reproduction of human population.
- quacked 6y agoYou're right and you're wrong. Men who grow up being exposed to the idea of nipples as sexual have a subconscious response; men who have not, don't, which is why some lineages of humanity don't have the same taboo, like most pre-modern tribes. It's the same reason that an ankle could be scandalous and arousing in 1750, but isn't now (with some exceptions in modern subculture.) Personally I'm in favor of modesty, and would prefer not to have sexuality flaunted everywhere like it is, but your answer isn't quite accurate.
- young_unixer 6y agoI guess that has more to do with sensory habituation/satiety than with attraction to breasts being a social construct.
- rcoveson 6y ago> Personally I'm in favor of modesty... I'm a little confused. Didn't your first paragraph illustrate how "modesty" is basically subjective? If that's the case, what does it mean to be in favor of it? Are you in favor of the current notion of modesty as it is today in your country, and if so, why?
- LudwigNagasena 6y agoHumans share many subjective feelings and views. Just because something is subjective it doesn’t mean it should be disregarded. What days should be holidays is also pretty subjective, but if the society can agree on which days to consider as holidays, probably it can also agree on what is considered sexual and modest. (Which is actually way more important than holidays because it impacts children that could be traumatized by certain sexual behaviors).
- pvaldes 6y agoThis is probably not about nipples. My bet would be that the machine is interpreting a naked round belly, vagina (vertical black shadowed area) and open legs in the arrangement of the three onions in the top.
- howlgarnish 6y agoAI doesn't work that way. It's the overall combo of skin tones and curves that resemble the training material it was fed (porn), and that's why it's triggering.
- nullsense 6y ago>I'm guessing this was flagged by their nipple detection algorithm. Needs more leetcode.
- rv-de 6y ago> I think it's time for our society to grow out of that phase for sure I thought ML tech already grew out of that phase where it cannot distinguish between an onion and a breast. Now if this quality of AI is to be considered state of the art then the good news is that the Singularity is not to be expected soon.
- k_sze 6y agoOr the Singularity will be much worse than we thought... or much more hilarious.
- IIAOPSW 6y agoI robot, except the AI decides to kill us to protect us from seeing our own nipples.
- amelius 6y agoIt's still a matter of statistics. If only 1 in a million photos is classified incorrectly, then most researchers as well as most "normal" people would consider the algorithm ok for the purpose (regardless of whether the purpose is justified). Yet on the scale of Facebook, errors are very likely to happen on a daily basis.
- NicolasGorden 6y agoNo, it's not about nipples. I know this algorithm well. Facebook does not allow advertisers to use Zoomed in images of body parts to artificially inflate CTR and play with their ad algorithm. The onion image that was banned has the exact contour of breasts viewed from above zoomed in.
- warent 6y agoI think it's a matter of hiding them because of so many people fetishizing tits, which ironically is likely due to them being hidden in the first place. It'll probably take a couple generations of uncensoring them before it's not socially pornographic
- xkcd-sucks 6y agoBy the time that happens, feet will have replaced titties
- egeozcan 6y agoWas there always so many foot fetishists and we're just realizing because of social media comments, or is it a generational thing?
- Larrikin 6y agoIt's probably related to your brain. https://www.livescience.com/33525-foot-fetishes-toe-suck-fairy.html https://www.livescience.com/33525-foot-fetishes-toe-suck-fai... . Makes sense to me that despite all the "hype" around feet for the last decade, I still find them the ugliest part of the female body.
- warent 6y agoWhy did the open that article talking about someone who assaulted another person? That just seems random and unrelated, like if if an article about sex toys just randomly opened with a paragraph about rape.
- tyfon 6y agoIt might be true, as a European I was surprised when I learned that you have adult magazines in the US dedicated to woman breasts. It's just not a big deal here. Forbidden fruit and all :)
- 6y ago
- SturgeonsLaw 6y agoAre there even laws around it? It's Facebook's website, if they wanted to allow nudity on it, then I don't see what's legally stopping them. Reddit has plenty of NSFW subreddits for example.
- Broken_Hippo 6y agoYes. More in some places, less in others. I'm guessing that their minimum age (13) has something to do with it. I am sure there are other options that can be done - restricting some content in some countries, restricting content for minors, and allowing adults other places to opt out or opt into nudity. I do not trust facebook to implement these well enough to appease governments and I think the prudish regulations align with Zuch's views on things. Not to mention that as long as folks use the service, they aren't really here to make folks happy. I'm not looking for change any time soon.
- bleepblorp 6y agoOnly Zucker---- can speak to the rationale for Facebook's nudity policies. However, I've seen it speculated that FB's policy is driven by the fact that advertisers don't want to risk the blowback if one of their products were to be seen advertised next to any content religious conservatives will get upset about. Other sites that used to post various forms of semi-nudity have run into this problem. Facebook itself may also be unwilling to risk losing advertising from conservatively-aligned companies by allowing material that their conservative clients would find offensive. Religious conservatives can cause tremendous brand damage if a megachurch pastor happens to 'find' something blasphemous that he can use to motivate his flock to up their donations that week. For most companies it's not worth the risk of stirring up these people and it would not be surprising if this is also the case with Facebook.
- 082349872349872 6y agoOne way my country "tramples on its citizens' inherent religious rights" is that priests here must, just as for the other professions, have degrees from accredited theological studies. Not only does it free us from the more radical sort of bomb throwing islamic fundamentalist extremism, it also frees us from the more radical sort of female curve covering puritan fundamentalist extremism.
- intricatedetail 6y ago"Religious conservatives" is another term for victims of manipulation techniques used by different organisations. It is all about enslaving ones mind in order to extract value from such person. Their sick views shouldn't be imposed on the rest of the society. "Religious" organisations should be banned from using various techniques e.q. If you don't do what's in the book, you will burn in hell. "Religion" should only be available to consenting adults.
- mytailorisrich 6y agoI'm now imagining an engineer having a job interview and explaining how they were "Nipple Detection Lead" at Facebook...
- rayiner 6y agoI hate to break it to you, but censorship isn’t the only reason people find breasts erotic.