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The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment (which by the way was also a suggestion Elon Musk

by mtgx 6y ago

The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment (which by the way was also a suggestion Elon Musk made before it happened), is probably what will save VW in the long-term. It really started a fire underneath them that they couldn't just ignore, as most other carmakers, including VW continued to have the ingrained thinking that EVs are just a "fad" or a "niche market" that they need to address "somehow", but mostly not put a lot of effort into it. Tesla Model 3 having 400,000 pre-orders in week 1 probably freaked out most carmakers, too, though. I'm glad VW, as well as other carmakers have realized by now that EVs are the future of the vast majority of road vehicles, and there is nothing stopping it.

gambiting 6y ago
>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that level(it has already led to Mercedes completely stopping sales of AMG vehicles since September until the end of the year, because they are so badly over the threshold), and then in few years the required average drops to 75g of CO2/km and then 50g. Those targets are bonkers, and impossible to achieve on pure ICEs(the 100g target is maybe just possible, but definitely not the 75 or 50g ones). So every manufacturer who sells cars in EU has to innovate and has to move towards PHEVs and BEVs, because otherwise it will be simply impossible to sell any cars at a profit over here. VW of course knows this and that's why there is such a strong push from their entire group towards electric vehicles. I have no idea what impact the US market had on this, but from my perspective it was zero - just like American manufacturers have pulled out even further from EU, European manufacturers are simply cutting out all models that are hard to sell in US due to their regulations.
- mtgx 6y ago
  >From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard Actually, the EU, pushed hard by Merkel, delayed and diluted the next-gen emissions standard, because they would've hurt the German car industry too much (go figure). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24532284 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24532284 https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-emissions-pollution-how-germany-lost-battle/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-emissions-polluti... And the German carmakers are STILL fighting the new standards in 2020: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-ask-eu-delay-latest-euro-6-emissions-standard https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-ask-eu-del...
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  Hybrids are great! So setting a goal that's impossible to meet with pure ICE isn't bonkers.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    You're misunderstanding me. The goals were bonkers in the sense that the average goal was set way below pretty much every vehicle on the market - so the day it was announced, there were maybe 2-3 compliant models. Bonkers as in - "crazy" low. Not that they are bad. I myself drive a PHEV and my next car is definitely going to be a full electric.
    - virgilp 6y ago
      Do you know when are those reductions to 75/50g set to go into effect? I've been hoping to move to electric vehicles for a while now but unfortunately the infrastructure is lacking, it's simply not practical to do so. I'm hopeful though that with these changes there will be more investment in electric recharging infrastructure.
- odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
  One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service. I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most people in my country live in apartments, a lot of them without garages even. What will people do? (I end up charging my car at my parents when I need, but even so it is a PITA as I have to leave it there for a few hours and then walk back home for 10-15 minutes)
  - clouddrover 6y ago
    Wireless charging would be the best solution. Charge where you park and no cables on the street: https://witricity.com/products/automotive/ https://witricity.com/products/automotive/
    - gambiting 6y ago
      My local council barely has enough money to patch potholes in the streets, they are switching the lights off at night to save money. Yet somehow.....they will build this expensive to build and maintain infrastructure? I imagine the first answer people will have is "it's simple! We will just let the private sector handle this!" - to which I say, this is an absolutely awful idea. The charging infrastructure is already handled like this and it's an absolute mess - every charger requires a different app, from a different provider, they all have different rules and requirements, if you turn up to a charger that you don't already have an account for, good luck spending the next 15-20 minutes setting up an account and hoping it actually works(instead of giving you "unknown error occurred" like it happens in my experience, just yesterday I wanted to use a "public" charger but failed because the 1 star android app by that provider kept crashing - it's a shitshow basically). The best thing that could happen to it is either all charging infrastructure being nationalized, or at least the government introducing very strict standards like they do with petrol stations.
      - clouddrover 6y ago

by mtgx 6y ago

gambiting 6y ago

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that level(it has already led to Mercedes completely stopping sales of AMG vehicles since September until the end of the year, because they are so badly over the threshold), and then in few years the required average drops to 75g of CO2/km and then 50g. Those targets are bonkers, and impossible to achieve on pure ICEs(the 100g target is maybe just possible, but definitely not the 75 or 50g ones). So every manufacturer who sells cars in EU has to innovate and has to move towards PHEVs and BEVs, because otherwise it will be simply impossible to sell any cars at a profit over here. VW of course knows this and that's why there is such a strong push from their entire group towards electric vehicles. I have no idea what impact the US market had on this, but from my perspective it was zero - just like American manufacturers have pulled out even further from EU, European manufacturers are simply cutting out all models that are hard to sell in US due to their regulations.

mtgx 6y ago
>From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard Actually, the EU, pushed hard by Merkel, delayed and diluted the next-gen emissions standard, because they would've hurt the German car industry too much (go figure). https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24532284 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24532284 https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-emissions-pollution-how-germany-lost-battle/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-car-emissions-polluti... And the German carmakers are STILL fighting the new standards in 2020: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-ask-eu-delay-latest-euro-6-emissions-standard https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/automakers-ask-eu-del...
Dylan16807 6y ago
Hybrids are great! So setting a goal that's impossible to meet with pure ICE isn't bonkers.
- gambiting 6y ago
  You're misunderstanding me. The goals were bonkers in the sense that the average goal was set way below pretty much every vehicle on the market - so the day it was announced, there were maybe 2-3 compliant models. Bonkers as in - "crazy" low. Not that they are bad. I myself drive a PHEV and my next car is definitely going to be a full electric.
  - virgilp 6y ago
    Do you know when are those reductions to 75/50g set to go into effect? I've been hoping to move to electric vehicles for a while now but unfortunately the infrastructure is lacking, it's simply not practical to do so. I'm hopeful though that with these changes there will be more investment in electric recharging infrastructure.
odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service. I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most people in my country live in apartments, a lot of them without garages even. What will people do? (I end up charging my car at my parents when I need, but even so it is a PITA as I have to leave it there for a few hours and then walk back home for 10-15 minutes)
- clouddrover 6y ago
  Wireless charging would be the best solution. Charge where you park and no cables on the street: https://witricity.com/products/automotive/ https://witricity.com/products/automotive/
  - gambiting 6y ago
    My local council barely has enough money to patch potholes in the streets, they are switching the lights off at night to save money. Yet somehow.....they will build this expensive to build and maintain infrastructure? I imagine the first answer people will have is "it's simple! We will just let the private sector handle this!" - to which I say, this is an absolutely awful idea. The charging infrastructure is already handled like this and it's an absolute mess - every charger requires a different app, from a different provider, they all have different rules and requirements, if you turn up to a charger that you don't already have an account for, good luck spending the next 15-20 minutes setting up an account and hoping it actually works(instead of giving you "unknown error occurred" like it happens in my experience, just yesterday I wanted to use a "public" charger but failed because the 1 star android app by that provider kept crashing - it's a shitshow basically). The best thing that could happen to it is either all charging infrastructure being nationalized, or at least the government introducing very strict standards like they do with petrol stations.
    - clouddrover 6y ago