8 ms·

Greenland Melting Fastest Any Time in Last 12,000 Years

156 points by joubert 6y ago

maallooc 6y ago
So.... Greenland was melting faster than now in say, 10,000 BC, right?
- klocksib 6y ago
  yes
- samcheng 6y ago
  Which was the end of the last ice age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period
- prawn 6y ago
  Is that the case, or is it that the method used here can't "see" prior to that ice age to predict things based on formation or rock placement, etc?
- hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
  Yes. Since then humanity has developed agriculture and become reliant on a stable climate to produce the calories need to sustain our enormous population. Sadly human activity has thrown the systems massively out of equilibrium. Such rapid climate change is going to seriously impact your and my lifestyle.
  - theduder99 6y ago
    "rapid" enough to seriously impact your and my lifestyle. If global temperature did happen to rise 2 degrees over the next 100 years, what massive impacts to our lifestyle will be occurring in your expert opinion?
tuxt 6y ago
Good thing for plants on Greenland?
aerodog 6y ago
They say if the whole thing melts, it's 24 feet of rising waters worldwide. But they don't project the odds of the whole thing melting, and don't share what they sense will melt at current rates.
- state_less 6y ago
  > Ultimately it's up to us how much ice actually melts. "Humanity has the knob—the carbon knob, and that knob is going to influence the rates of ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet."
- jules 6y ago
  Do you have a source for that number?
  - jamil7 6y ago
    Check the contributions section here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise or just cmd+f for "24 ft"
    - jules 6y ago
      Very nice, thanks. So Greenland's area is about 2 million km^2 and the area of all oceans is about 360 million km^2, so the average thickness of the ice on Greenland is roughly 24 feet * 360/2 = 1.3 kilometers. That's an unimaginably huge amount of ice! Apparently the thickest point is 3 km! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    Here's a direct link to the study: https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/1551/2018/essd-10-1551-2018.pdf https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/1551/2018/essd-10-15...
    - est31 6y ago
      Relevant quote: > Almost all land ice (∼99.5 %) is locked in theice sheets, with a volume in sea-level equivalent (SLE) termsof 7.4 m for Greenland and 58.3 m for Antarctica. It has beenestimated that approximately 25 % to 30 % of the total landice contribution to sea-level rise over the last decade camefrom the Greenland ice sheet 7.4 m corresponds to 24 feet so their claims are accurate. Also, 58.3 m.... that's shocking. Predicted sea level rise until the end of this century is well below that but imagine the massive effort needed to deploy 69 m tall walls at our coastlines... scary as hell. Likely we'll just give up a lot of land.
rasz 6y ago
Alexa, when did the last Age end? >The Pleistocene Epoch is typically defined as the time period that began about 2.6 million years ago and lasted until about 11,700 years ago makes sense
- biolurker1 6y ago
  So you are implying that this is natural and humans are not contributing. Sounds like climate change denial to me.
  - melling 6y ago
    You get climate denial everywhere, even on HN. Read the comments in the Wall Street Journal and it’s 100 times as bad. This should have been a warning to people a decade ago that we weren’t going to do enough to solve the problem. One group goes to one extreme trying to shame people into not flying, for example. While the other extreme undoes policy that tries to reduce emissions. When do we start drilling in Alaska?
    - rtx 6y ago
      Because people talking about climate change keep sending out contradictory messages. If climate change was as grave they talk about we wouldn't have seen them opposing nuclear and GMO.
      - freen 6y ago
        This is a gross failure to both understand science and human beings. Demanding perfection in others before even beginning to contemplate a potential global disaster is either the height of either stupidity or mendacity.
        rtx 6y ago
        Agreed, we have a group who don't understand basic science as nuclear. I would be suspicious of their understanding of something complex as environment. Yup don't teach me about climate change from private jets and heated homes.
dejavuagain 6y ago
For perspective, the ice sheet is melting at an average rate of 195 km^3/year. It is a total of 2,850,000 km^3. It will take over 14,000 years for all the ice to melt at that rate. The rate has increased 16% since the 1970's. Still, I think we'll be okay. This is the first time I've actually done the math. I feel a lot better now. I doubt we will see any appreciable rise in sea levels during our lifetime. Why do they make it out like it's imminent?
bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
Reading reddit be like https://endlessdoomscroller.com/ https://endlessdoomscroller.com/ :-)
HashingtheCode 6y ago
Just a comment from the late great George Carlin in regards to environmental issues like this; "Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet... nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine... the people are fucked! Difference! The planet is fine! Compared to the people, THE PLANET IS DOING GREAT: Been here four and a half billion years! Do you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years, we’ve been here what? 100,000? Maybe 200,000? And we’ve only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over 200 years. 200 years versus four and a half billion and we have the conceit to think that somehow, we’re a threat? That somehow, we’re going to put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that’s just a-floatin’ around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us: been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drifts, solar flares, sunspots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages, and we think some plastic bags and aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn’t going anywhere... we are! We’re going away! Pack your shit folks! We’re going away and we won’t leave much of a trace either, thank God for that... maybe a little styrofoam... maybe... little styrofoam. The planet will be here, we’ll be long gone; just another failed mutation; just another closed-end biological mistake; an evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas, a surface nuisance. You wanna know how the planet’s doing? Ask those people in Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcanic ash how the planet’s doing. Wanna know if the planet’s all right? Ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. How about those people in Kilauea, Hawaii who build their homes right next to an active volcano and then wonder why they have lava in the living room?" BTW, you people that keep down voting me because I don't agree with your position, trying to shut me down, stopping me from expressing my opinion, you guys, are fascists. Don't believe me about climate change scaremongering, here is a long list over the past 50 years of failed environmental disasters.... https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyp...
- defterGoose 6y ago
082349872349872 6y ago
Tangentially related: https://www.quora.com/When-will-the-Northwest-Passage-become-a-viable-shipping-route-and-will-this-make-Iceland-more-important-as-a-stop https://www.quora.com/When-will-the-Northwest-Passage-become...

156 points by joubert 6y ago

maallooc 6y ago

So.... Greenland was melting faster than now in say, 10,000 BC, right?

klocksib 6y ago
yes
samcheng 6y ago
Which was the end of the last ice age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period
prawn 6y ago
Is that the case, or is it that the method used here can't "see" prior to that ice age to predict things based on formation or rock placement, etc?
hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
Yes. Since then humanity has developed agriculture and become reliant on a stable climate to produce the calories need to sustain our enormous population. Sadly human activity has thrown the systems massively out of equilibrium. Such rapid climate change is going to seriously impact your and my lifestyle.
- theduder99 6y ago
  "rapid" enough to seriously impact your and my lifestyle. If global temperature did happen to rise 2 degrees over the next 100 years, what massive impacts to our lifestyle will be occurring in your expert opinion?

tuxt 6y ago

Good thing for plants on Greenland?

aerodog 6y ago

They say if the whole thing melts, it's 24 feet of rising waters worldwide. But they don't project the odds of the whole thing melting, and don't share what they sense will melt at current rates.

state_less 6y ago
> Ultimately it's up to us how much ice actually melts. "Humanity has the knob—the carbon knob, and that knob is going to influence the rates of ice loss from the Greenland ice sheet."
jules 6y ago
Do you have a source for that number?
- jamil7 6y ago
  Check the contributions section here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise or just cmd+f for "24 ft"
  - jules 6y ago
    Very nice, thanks. So Greenland's area is about 2 million km^2 and the area of all oceans is about 360 million km^2, so the average thickness of the ice on Greenland is roughly 24 feet * 360/2 = 1.3 kilometers. That's an unimaginably huge amount of ice! Apparently the thickest point is 3 km! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Here's a direct link to the study: https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/1551/2018/essd-10-1551-2018.pdf https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/1551/2018/essd-10-15...
  - est31 6y ago
    Relevant quote: > Almost all land ice (∼99.5 %) is locked in theice sheets, with a volume in sea-level equivalent (SLE) termsof 7.4 m for Greenland and 58.3 m for Antarctica. It has beenestimated that approximately 25 % to 30 % of the total landice contribution to sea-level rise over the last decade camefrom the Greenland ice sheet 7.4 m corresponds to 24 feet so their claims are accurate. Also, 58.3 m.... that's shocking. Predicted sea level rise until the end of this century is well below that but imagine the massive effort needed to deploy 69 m tall walls at our coastlines... scary as hell. Likely we'll just give up a lot of land.

rasz 6y ago

Alexa, when did the last Age end? >The Pleistocene Epoch is typically defined as the time period that began about 2.6 million years ago and lasted until about 11,700 years ago makes sense

biolurker1 6y ago
So you are implying that this is natural and humans are not contributing. Sounds like climate change denial to me.
- melling 6y ago
  You get climate denial everywhere, even on HN. Read the comments in the Wall Street Journal and it’s 100 times as bad. This should have been a warning to people a decade ago that we weren’t going to do enough to solve the problem. One group goes to one extreme trying to shame people into not flying, for example. While the other extreme undoes policy that tries to reduce emissions. When do we start drilling in Alaska?
  - rtx 6y ago
    Because people talking about climate change keep sending out contradictory messages. If climate change was as grave they talk about we wouldn't have seen them opposing nuclear and GMO.
    - freen 6y ago
      This is a gross failure to both understand science and human beings. Demanding perfection in others before even beginning to contemplate a potential global disaster is either the height of either stupidity or mendacity.
      - rtx 6y ago
        Agreed, we have a group who don't understand basic science as nuclear. I would be suspicious of their understanding of something complex as environment. Yup don't teach me about climate change from private jets and heated homes.

dejavuagain 6y ago

For perspective, the ice sheet is melting at an average rate of 195 km^3/year. It is a total of 2,850,000 km^3. It will take over 14,000 years for all the ice to melt at that rate. The rate has increased 16% since the 1970's. Still, I think we'll be okay. This is the first time I've actually done the math. I feel a lot better now. I doubt we will see any appreciable rise in sea levels during our lifetime. Why do they make it out like it's imminent?

bfieidhbrjr 6y ago

Reading reddit be like https://endlessdoomscroller.com/ https://endlessdoomscroller.com/ :-)

HashingtheCode 6y ago

Just a comment from the late great George Carlin in regards to environmental issues like this; "Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet... nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine... the people are fucked! Difference! The planet is fine! Compared to the people, THE PLANET IS DOING GREAT: Been here four and a half billion years! Do you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years, we’ve been here what? 100,000? Maybe 200,000? And we’ve only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over 200 years. 200 years versus four and a half billion and we have the conceit to think that somehow, we’re a threat? That somehow, we’re going to put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that’s just a-floatin’ around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us: been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drifts, solar flares, sunspots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages, and we think some plastic bags and aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn’t going anywhere... we are! We’re going away! Pack your shit folks! We’re going away and we won’t leave much of a trace either, thank God for that... maybe a little styrofoam... maybe... little styrofoam. The planet will be here, we’ll be long gone; just another failed mutation; just another closed-end biological mistake; an evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas, a surface nuisance. You wanna know how the planet’s doing? Ask those people in Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcanic ash how the planet’s doing. Wanna know if the planet’s all right? Ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. How about those people in Kilauea, Hawaii who build their homes right next to an active volcano and then wonder why they have lava in the living room?" BTW, you people that keep down voting me because I don't agree with your position, trying to shut me down, stopping me from expressing my opinion, you guys, are fascists. Don't believe me about climate change scaremongering, here is a long list over the past 50 years of failed environmental disasters.... https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyp...

defterGoose 6y ago

082349872349872 6y ago

Tangentially related: https://www.quora.com/When-will-the-Northwest-Passage-become-a-viable-shipping-route-and-will-this-make-Iceland-more-important-as-a-stop https://www.quora.com/When-will-the-Northwest-Passage-become...