4 ms·

... or they could just create a PWA and publish it on the free and open web and have the app be available globally in 40s w/o any regulations or artificial rest

... or they could just create a PWA and publish it on the free and open web and have the app be available globally in 40s w/o any regulations or artificial restrictions.

maneesh 6y ago
Except the ability to send push notifications, which is paramount to retention and revenue
- actuator 6y ago
  and user spam as well. I am thankful for new versions of Android giving notification control to the users.
  - spideymans 6y ago
    The web notifications API has become yet another vector for spam. The standard should’ve had a way to proactively deal with spammy developers.
- jefftk 6y ago
  According to the article, India is 97% Android, and so Progressive Web Apps can send push notifications: https://developers.google.com/web/ilt/pwa/introduction-to-push-notifications https://developers.google.com/web/ilt/pwa/introduction-to-pu... (Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)
- ethbr0 6y ago
  > retention and revenue By which you mean, pissing off power users? Or as Google puts it in equally bullshit terms: > They allow your users to opt-in to timely updates and allow you to effectively re-engage users with customized content.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
adventured 6y ago
There is no 'free and open web,' that's long in the past now, to the extent it ever existed (for about 10-15 years in a limited form). Which countries partake in this supposed free and open web? None. There are dozens of separately regulated prominent webs now and that's going to get a lot worse this decade. We're never going back, nations are not going to give up the control they're assuming, it will splinter further and further; complexity will grow, accessing foreign markets will become more onerous. It'll gradually fully mirror the physical world, where if you want to travel to another nation, or do business in another nation (access their market), you will have to comply with all of their myriad of local regulations (which will continue to grow rapidly in number and complexity). Nations will fence off their citizens online, and you will have to comply to access them. We're already seeing this directional shift in many nations, it will spread comprehensively. Turkey's web is not regulated the same as India's web which is not regulated the same as China's web which is not regulated the same as the EU's web which is not regulated the same as Brazil's web which is not regulated the same as Australia's web which is not regulated the same as the US web which is not regulated the same as Britain's web and so on.
IshKebab 6y ago
PWAs are not as good as real apps though.
- fwn 6y ago
  I use them wherever I can because they allow me to block ads, analytics and other unpleasant elements like nudges, etc. But I'm far from an expert. What would be the benefit of a non-pw app?
  - IshKebab 6y ago
    * You can use all the device APIs, not just the ones that have been exposed as web APIs. * They're way faster and less janky. * You don't to use endless workarounds to disable typical web behaviour when you don't want it. PWAs are probably suitable for basic apps that just display information, e.g. an app for an event, or a pub or whatever. You would be insane to try and make a "real" app like Snapchat or Google Maps as a PWA though.
    - toast0 6y ago
      Google's Android UI toolkit is slower than Chrome building UI from HTML, sadly. So it's not a clear win for native apps (unless the native app is using HTML for UI, I guess). That said, I don't think PWAs have a good way to get background data updates, which is unfortunate for apps that could work offline. You can't do a silent push to update data, last I checked, anyway. (Use case: I want a weather app that has current/recent data without loading when I start the app, because I often start the app in dead zones; also I want to have it background fetch the data when my location changes).
      - IshKebab 6y ago
        You mean slower to write? You're probably right for native Android. But I didn't say anything about development effort. Also it's definitely easier to get polished apps with Flutter than PWAs, so I think they'd still lose on that front.

... or they could just create a PWA and publish it on the free and open web and have the app be available globally in 40s w/o any regulations or artificial restrictions.

maneesh 6y ago

Except the ability to send push notifications, which is paramount to retention and revenue

actuator 6y ago
and user spam as well. I am thankful for new versions of Android giving notification control to the users.
- spideymans 6y ago
  The web notifications API has become yet another vector for spam. The standard should’ve had a way to proactively deal with spammy developers.
jefftk 6y ago
According to the article, India is 97% Android, and so Progressive Web Apps can send push notifications: https://developers.google.com/web/ilt/pwa/introduction-to-push-notifications https://developers.google.com/web/ilt/pwa/introduction-to-pu... (Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)
ethbr0 6y ago
> retention and revenue By which you mean, pissing off power users? Or as Google puts it in equally bullshit terms: > They allow your users to opt-in to timely updates and allow you to effectively re-engage users with customized content.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

adventured 6y ago

There is no 'free and open web,' that's long in the past now, to the extent it ever existed (for about 10-15 years in a limited form). Which countries partake in this supposed free and open web? None. There are dozens of separately regulated prominent webs now and that's going to get a lot worse this decade. We're never going back, nations are not going to give up the control they're assuming, it will splinter further and further; complexity will grow, accessing foreign markets will become more onerous. It'll gradually fully mirror the physical world, where if you want to travel to another nation, or do business in another nation (access their market), you will have to comply with all of their myriad of local regulations (which will continue to grow rapidly in number and complexity). Nations will fence off their citizens online, and you will have to comply to access them. We're already seeing this directional shift in many nations, it will spread comprehensively. Turkey's web is not regulated the same as India's web which is not regulated the same as China's web which is not regulated the same as the EU's web which is not regulated the same as Brazil's web which is not regulated the same as Australia's web which is not regulated the same as the US web which is not regulated the same as Britain's web and so on.

IshKebab 6y ago

PWAs are not as good as real apps though.

fwn 6y ago
I use them wherever I can because they allow me to block ads, analytics and other unpleasant elements like nudges, etc. But I'm far from an expert. What would be the benefit of a non-pw app?
- IshKebab 6y ago
  * You can use all the device APIs, not just the ones that have been exposed as web APIs. * They're way faster and less janky. * You don't to use endless workarounds to disable typical web behaviour when you don't want it. PWAs are probably suitable for basic apps that just display information, e.g. an app for an event, or a pub or whatever. You would be insane to try and make a "real" app like Snapchat or Google Maps as a PWA though.
  - toast0 6y ago
    Google's Android UI toolkit is slower than Chrome building UI from HTML, sadly. So it's not a clear win for native apps (unless the native app is using HTML for UI, I guess). That said, I don't think PWAs have a good way to get background data updates, which is unfortunate for apps that could work offline. You can't do a silent push to update data, last I checked, anyway. (Use case: I want a weather app that has current/recent data without loading when I start the app, because I often start the app in dead zones; also I want to have it background fetch the data when my location changes).
    - IshKebab 6y ago
      You mean slower to write? You're probably right for native Android. But I didn't say anything about development effort. Also it's definitely easier to get polished apps with Flutter than PWAs, so I think they'd still lose on that front.