6 ms·

Medlife crisis, a cardiologist youtuber has recently made a video [0] about a similar study, that also looked at MRI images of patients [1]. That same story is

by est31 6y ago

Medlife crisis, a cardiologist youtuber has recently made a video [0] about a similar study, that also looked at MRI images of patients [1]. That same story is referenced in the article as well. According to medlife crisis, MRI images aren't really helpful as a sole tool to diagnose miocarditis, instead one uses them together with other data like symptom reports or ECG. Alone, they would be too flaky. Also, we don't even know how healthy people look like as we don't put them into scanners. Now this [2] study, the one the blog post is about, didn't just study MRI images but also collected other data, like ECG. But quoting the study: > There were no diagnostic ST/T wave changes on electrocardiogram, and ventricular volumes and function were within the normal range in all athletes by transthoracic echocardiogram and CMR imaging. No athlete had elevated serum levels of troponin I. Some individuals reported mild symptoms typical to COVID, but most were asymptomatic. So the study confirmed that there are no abnormal changes beyond the MRI scans, which, as written above, can be flaky. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaiQGJqZ6Y8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaiQGJqZ6Y8 [1]: https://doi.org/10.1001/jamacardio.2020.3557 https://doi.org/10.1001/jamacardio.2020.3557 [2]: https://doi.org/10.1001/jamacardio.2020.4916 https://doi.org/10.1001/jamacardio.2020.4916

throwmeaway_pls 6y ago
Are you suggesting this blog post might be misleading by not disclosing the limitations of the referenced work? Why would anybody do such a thing? /s
joshgel 6y ago
With tens of thousands of publications on COVID, its absolutely amazing how few there are on the follow up of these patients. (ie what comes next after infection). There is so little data we are flying blind (again). That said, there is evidence that the other coronaviruses that caused epidemics (SARS and MERS) can cause clinically meaningful myocarditis and heart failure as a result. In vitro and autopsy evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 directly infects myocardial cells. So it's plausible that there will be some cardiac sequelae of COVID, perhaps in many patients or maybe just in those at high risk. We just don't know. Assuming that myocarditis will be a major problem because 2 uncontrolled studies said so is as silly as assuming hydroxychloroquine works because of similar strength of evidence. But dismissing it out of hand (which I'm not suggesting GP is doing) is not smart either. We should be appropriately skeptical, but need to investigate further.
- nostromo 6y ago
  > That said, there is evidence that the other coronaviruses that caused epidemics (SARS and MERS) can cause clinically meaningful myocarditis and heart failure as a result. It'd be interesting to know how it compares to the flu. Here's an interesting study from just this year: > A CDC study looking at more than 80,000 adult patients hospitalized with flu over eight seasons found that sudden, serious heart complications were common, occurring in 12% of patients, or 1 in 8. https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/study-confirms-link-between-influenza-heart-complications https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/study-confirms-link-between-inf...
  - vkou 6y ago
    If you have to be hospitalized for the flu, you are pretty close to death's door. It's not a very common occurance. Hospitalization for COVID is, unfortunately, quite common.
    - slg 6y ago
      Also the general population of adults (not even adults hospitalized with the flu) is going to be drastically worse in overall health before infection when compared to college athletes. So "this happens with the flu too" isn't too helpful without there being some comparison to how often it happens with COVID versus the flu.
    - timr 6y ago
      "Hospitalization for COVID is, unfortunately, quite common." Not in the demographic followed in this study. Amongst healthy 19-year-olds the flu represents about the same threat of both hospitalization and death, and flu is possibly a little bit worse than Covid: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... https://www.lung.org/getmedia/98f088b5-3fd7-4c43-a490-ba8f4747bd4d/pi-trend-report.pdf.pdf https://www.lung.org/getmedia/98f088b5-3fd7-4c43-a490-ba8f47...
      - mattigames 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
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by est31 6y ago

throwmeaway_pls 6y ago

Are you suggesting this blog post might be misleading by not disclosing the limitations of the referenced work? Why would anybody do such a thing? /s

joshgel 6y ago

With tens of thousands of publications on COVID, its absolutely amazing how few there are on the follow up of these patients. (ie what comes next after infection). There is so little data we are flying blind (again). That said, there is evidence that the other coronaviruses that caused epidemics (SARS and MERS) can cause clinically meaningful myocarditis and heart failure as a result. In vitro and autopsy evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 directly infects myocardial cells. So it's plausible that there will be some cardiac sequelae of COVID, perhaps in many patients or maybe just in those at high risk. We just don't know. Assuming that myocarditis will be a major problem because 2 uncontrolled studies said so is as silly as assuming hydroxychloroquine works because of similar strength of evidence. But dismissing it out of hand (which I'm not suggesting GP is doing) is not smart either. We should be appropriately skeptical, but need to investigate further.

nostromo 6y ago
> That said, there is evidence that the other coronaviruses that caused epidemics (SARS and MERS) can cause clinically meaningful myocarditis and heart failure as a result. It'd be interesting to know how it compares to the flu. Here's an interesting study from just this year: > A CDC study looking at more than 80,000 adult patients hospitalized with flu over eight seasons found that sudden, serious heart complications were common, occurring in 12% of patients, or 1 in 8. https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/study-confirms-link-between-influenza-heart-complications https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/study-confirms-link-between-inf...
- vkou 6y ago
  If you have to be hospitalized for the flu, you are pretty close to death's door. It's not a very common occurance. Hospitalization for COVID is, unfortunately, quite common.
  - slg 6y ago
    Also the general population of adults (not even adults hospitalized with the flu) is going to be drastically worse in overall health before infection when compared to college athletes. So "this happens with the flu too" isn't too helpful without there being some comparison to how often it happens with COVID versus the flu.
  - timr 6y ago
    "Hospitalization for COVID is, unfortunately, quite common." Not in the demographic followed in this study. Amongst healthy 19-year-olds the flu represents about the same threat of both hospitalization and death, and flu is possibly a little bit worse than Covid: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... https://www.lung.org/getmedia/98f088b5-3fd7-4c43-a490-ba8f4747bd4d/pi-trend-report.pdf.pdf https://www.lung.org/getmedia/98f088b5-3fd7-4c43-a490-ba8f47...
    - mattigames 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

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