14 ms·

The studies on covid lung damage found that it lasts 1-3 months and then recovers in all cases where ARDS is not diagnosed. I wonder if this is similar (e.g. in

The studies on covid lung damage found that it lasts 1-3 months and then recovers in all cases where ARDS is not diagnosed. I wonder if this is similar (e.g. intense viral infection, regardless of symptoms, leads to myocarditis but then heals over time). That's the biggest open question mark about how bad covid is that hasn't been addressed yet.

henrikschroder 6y ago
I'm so tired of all reports talking about things that could happen, may happen, but fail to produce numbers of how common it is. Hundreds of millions of people have had sars-cov-2 by now, if long-term effects were a widespread phenomenon, we would know by now. And yet, absolute crickets except rare outliers. An old friend of mine was sick for months with the virus, and she has many months of rehab in front of her before she's back to normal. That sucks, but she's still the outlier. And you can't let the outliers dictate your behaviour, or you would never leave the house for fear of falling pianos or lightning strikes.
- rogerkirkness 6y ago
  To be clear, since it never is, I'm commenting that scientifically it's open and shut except for heart stuff. So it's interesting to see early indications. I agree about implications, I'm not arguing for extreme measures, simply stating fact. If it is airborne HIV like people feared in April (which it is not), I would like to know.
- titzer 6y ago
  Trust me we are all tired. > Hundreds of millions of people have had sars-cov-2 by now, No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. You don't get to just randomly multiply by some fudge factor that feels right to you and then reason based on that. When you do this it makes it clear that numbers really don't mean anything to you and it will just be more sophistry to justify giving up and letting the disease everywhere because of something about "others dictating your behaviour" or something or other. This attitude and shades of it are exactly why 1 million people worldwide have died. Yeah, we're tired.
  - meiraleal 6y ago
    > No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. With 34 million cases confirmed, it is probably that hundreds of millions actually had it but stayed at home, as it is the first recommendation. Yeah, we're all tired.
  - _-___________-_ 6y ago
    > No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. You don't get to just randomly multiply by some fudge factor that feels right to you and then reason based on that. Certainly any other number is entirely speculative, but given the minor symptoms it usually causes (and the lack of symptoms in many people) it seems a huge stretch to assume that confirmed cases == number of infections.
    - mattigames 6y ago
      True, but reinfections (with symptoms) have occurred[0], so numbers of confirmed may not be an important metric, further studies are needed to conclude either way. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/world/reinfections-are-possible-man-who-tested-positive-for-covid-19-twice-identified-in-nevada-says-study/wcm/b6b4abd2-cf6b-45de-a1cc-c7211739cceb/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/world/rei...
      - zaroth 6y ago
        So that makes two people in the entire world who are known to have re-tested positive. Immunity is never 100%. Why would we highlight 2 cases out of 30 million and turn that into a talking point like it means something?
        mattigames 6y ago
        The virus the second time it was a different strain, so 2 people can become millions if the virus keeps mutating, let's remember it doesn't even have a year in existence so we know near nothing about how it mutates.
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  > if long-term effects were a widespread phenomenon, we would know by now Wouldn't you have to wait until a long time period has passed before you could make any real claims in regards to "long-term effects"?
graeme 6y ago
Have a link? I missed those studied.
- joshgel 6y ago
  I've searched extensively for any studies that describe the 3 month follow up and found exactly one, recently published. I would love if you could identify more. Results aren't really as described here. Some patients recover, but about 1/3 had persistent lung findings and many had decreased lung function (as measured by DLCO). [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30207-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...
  - graeme 6y ago
    Thanks! I suspect OP either misinterpreted this study or just inventing things. I’ve followed this fairly closely and know of no study showing absence of longer run effects, or definite presence of them. It’s too early. Also note for anyone reading the above study: they were hospitalized patients, with critical excluded. That would be “moderate” in the technical terms used to describe the virus.
sgtnoodle 6y ago
Earlier this year my immune system developed COVID FOMO and caused inflammation that destroyed my heart's AV nerves. I got relatively lucky that the inflammation didn't seem to cause any muscle damage. My heart looked perfect on an MRI, despite only beating at 21 BPM at the time. Apparently inflammation doesn't really show up on an MRI unless it's horrendously bad or it's caused fibrous scarring. The scan that really shows inflammation well is PET, and you don't really want to do a PET scan without good reason since it requires getting injected with a radioactive substance. I've likely had inflammation in my lungs for years based on a previously unexplained chronic cough, and since getting treated for the inflammatory condition, within weeks my cough was gone and my pulmonary function is quantifiably normal. So, it seems to me like systemic organ inflammation isn't too big a deal unless it happens to cause nerve damage, or gets bad enough to cause fibrous scarring. Unfortunately, if you can see it on an MRI, then you're probably already screwed. You can get a good view of any inflammation via PET, but you're going to glow for a while after. Perhaps viral inflammation is a lot more destructive than autoimmune inflammation alone? It sounds like contemporary COVID treatment has become more effective with the addition of anti-inflammatory medications, though, which is great news.
- raducu 6y ago
  My blood pressure dropped from 135/85 to 115/80 after I got COVID. I haven't checked it recently because I'm left with tinnitus in my right ear (that rings very loud when stressed or when exerting myself) and I was stressed about that, but I'll do an ultrasound checkup on my heart. You did not mention an ultrasound exam on your heart, I thought it was pretty good?
  - sgtnoodle 6y ago
    I believe at this point I've had every type of non-invasive scan available, not including all the various contrasts and radioactive tracers that are possible. An echocardiogram showed my heart beating weird obviously, but revealed no structural problems. The doctors seemed to use ultrasound mainly to look for perfusion through my heart muscle after pacemaker surgery, and once again provided no clues as to the cause of the nerve damage. It was a mystery until I had a PET scan, which was very telling, and then a subsequent biopsy to confirm the diagnosis. I now have a lot of cool images of my insides on a CD, and I'm Bluetooth enabled.
collyw 6y ago
Do you have any links? (Or a search term to use if you don't know them). I see numerous reports of "long term" or "permanent" damage, despite the virus having been around for less than a year.

henrikschroder 6y ago

I'm so tired of all reports talking about things that could happen, may happen, but fail to produce numbers of how common it is. Hundreds of millions of people have had sars-cov-2 by now, if long-term effects were a widespread phenomenon, we would know by now. And yet, absolute crickets except rare outliers. An old friend of mine was sick for months with the virus, and she has many months of rehab in front of her before she's back to normal. That sucks, but she's still the outlier. And you can't let the outliers dictate your behaviour, or you would never leave the house for fear of falling pianos or lightning strikes.

rogerkirkness 6y ago
To be clear, since it never is, I'm commenting that scientifically it's open and shut except for heart stuff. So it's interesting to see early indications. I agree about implications, I'm not arguing for extreme measures, simply stating fact. If it is airborne HIV like people feared in April (which it is not), I would like to know.
titzer 6y ago
Trust me we are all tired. > Hundreds of millions of people have had sars-cov-2 by now, No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. You don't get to just randomly multiply by some fudge factor that feels right to you and then reason based on that. When you do this it makes it clear that numbers really don't mean anything to you and it will just be more sophistry to justify giving up and letting the disease everywhere because of something about "others dictating your behaviour" or something or other. This attitude and shades of it are exactly why 1 million people worldwide have died. Yeah, we're tired.
- meiraleal 6y ago
  > No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. With 34 million cases confirmed, it is probably that hundreds of millions actually had it but stayed at home, as it is the first recommendation. Yeah, we're all tired.
- _-___________-_ 6y ago
  > No, worldwide numbers are ~34 million confirmed. You don't get to just randomly multiply by some fudge factor that feels right to you and then reason based on that. Certainly any other number is entirely speculative, but given the minor symptoms it usually causes (and the lack of symptoms in many people) it seems a huge stretch to assume that confirmed cases == number of infections.
  - mattigames 6y ago
    True, but reinfections (with symptoms) have occurred[0], so numbers of confirmed may not be an important metric, further studies are needed to conclude either way. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/world/reinfections-are-possible-man-who-tested-positive-for-covid-19-twice-identified-in-nevada-says-study/wcm/b6b4abd2-cf6b-45de-a1cc-c7211739cceb/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/world/rei...
    - zaroth 6y ago
      So that makes two people in the entire world who are known to have re-tested positive. Immunity is never 100%. Why would we highlight 2 cases out of 30 million and turn that into a talking point like it means something?
      - mattigames 6y ago
        The virus the second time it was a different strain, so 2 people can become millions if the virus keeps mutating, let's remember it doesn't even have a year in existence so we know near nothing about how it mutates.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
> if long-term effects were a widespread phenomenon, we would know by now Wouldn't you have to wait until a long time period has passed before you could make any real claims in regards to "long-term effects"?

graeme 6y ago

Have a link? I missed those studied.

joshgel 6y ago
I've searched extensively for any studies that describe the 3 month follow up and found exactly one, recently published. I would love if you could identify more. Results aren't really as described here. Some patients recover, but about 1/3 had persistent lung findings and many had decreased lung function (as measured by DLCO). [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30207-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...
- graeme 6y ago
  Thanks! I suspect OP either misinterpreted this study or just inventing things. I’ve followed this fairly closely and know of no study showing absence of longer run effects, or definite presence of them. It’s too early. Also note for anyone reading the above study: they were hospitalized patients, with critical excluded. That would be “moderate” in the technical terms used to describe the virus.

sgtnoodle 6y ago

Earlier this year my immune system developed COVID FOMO and caused inflammation that destroyed my heart's AV nerves. I got relatively lucky that the inflammation didn't seem to cause any muscle damage. My heart looked perfect on an MRI, despite only beating at 21 BPM at the time. Apparently inflammation doesn't really show up on an MRI unless it's horrendously bad or it's caused fibrous scarring. The scan that really shows inflammation well is PET, and you don't really want to do a PET scan without good reason since it requires getting injected with a radioactive substance. I've likely had inflammation in my lungs for years based on a previously unexplained chronic cough, and since getting treated for the inflammatory condition, within weeks my cough was gone and my pulmonary function is quantifiably normal. So, it seems to me like systemic organ inflammation isn't too big a deal unless it happens to cause nerve damage, or gets bad enough to cause fibrous scarring. Unfortunately, if you can see it on an MRI, then you're probably already screwed. You can get a good view of any inflammation via PET, but you're going to glow for a while after. Perhaps viral inflammation is a lot more destructive than autoimmune inflammation alone? It sounds like contemporary COVID treatment has become more effective with the addition of anti-inflammatory medications, though, which is great news.

raducu 6y ago
My blood pressure dropped from 135/85 to 115/80 after I got COVID. I haven't checked it recently because I'm left with tinnitus in my right ear (that rings very loud when stressed or when exerting myself) and I was stressed about that, but I'll do an ultrasound checkup on my heart. You did not mention an ultrasound exam on your heart, I thought it was pretty good?
- sgtnoodle 6y ago
  I believe at this point I've had every type of non-invasive scan available, not including all the various contrasts and radioactive tracers that are possible. An echocardiogram showed my heart beating weird obviously, but revealed no structural problems. The doctors seemed to use ultrasound mainly to look for perfusion through my heart muscle after pacemaker surgery, and once again provided no clues as to the cause of the nerve damage. It was a mystery until I had a PET scan, which was very telling, and then a subsequent biopsy to confirm the diagnosis. I now have a lot of cool images of my insides on a CD, and I'm Bluetooth enabled.

collyw 6y ago

Do you have any links? (Or a search term to use if you don't know them). I see numerous reports of "long term" or "permanent" damage, despite the virus having been around for less than a year.