8 ms·
How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on
by BlueGh0st 6y ago
How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble.
In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony checkbox until that day, despite having been hired over a month before!
- 5thaccount 6y agoHave you tried doing freelancer stuff? When no one will give you a chance, giving yourself one is probably your best bet. I have no idea how well that would work, but it seems like the only variable you can control.
- BlueGh0st 6y agoI have been able to do just a handful of freelance-gigs outside of my desired field but between bad experiences (payment was 6 months late once) and life kicking me while I'm down, I've just been seeking some stability.
- poulsbohemian 6y ago>(payment was 6 months late once) This never gets enough visibility among freelancers / contractors / consultants - it can be really hard to get paid and for smaller amounts of money it often would take too much in legal fees to actually get paid.
- Aeolun 6y agoDon’t work until payment is made? Offer a discount for early payment? Charge interest on late payments?
- poulsbohemian 6y ago>Charge interest on late payments? This is an important one, as is a clause in your contract that will force them to pay legal fees in the event you have to sue to get them to pay. >Don’t work until payment is made? I'm a fan of arrangements where clients pay something up front, then receive work, then pay the rest. No client in their right mind is going to pay the whole amount up front and frankly nor should they. But, if they pay 50% up front, you do work, and then they decide to stiff you for the final payment, you'd better have a good lawyer and a tight contract.
- fakedang 6y agoYou can't exactly not work until payment is made, simply because the field is too crowded. So in the starting of a project, you desperately go to a bidding war against the competition where you either compromise on your time or your money or something else of yours. Whether you get paid or not becomes a backseat priority. Offering a discount for early payment is one sort of those things, and let's be honest, most clients value the optionality of not paying at all over paying a discount. Charging an interest on late payments needs to be explicitly mentioned during the bidding process, and that will draw the client away in an already crowded field.
- yreg 6y agoIn what situations do US employers/clients ask about criminal history? Can't you freelance or start as a contractor?
- meddlepal 6y agoBackground check process will uncover it. If you're not upfront with it early in the process it will come up in background check and usually disqualify you. Edit: background checks are standard practice for employees and contractors usually.
- unishark 6y agoWhy would contractors care, unless it's a high profile customer-facing thing like Uber? I've done a lot of consulting and small contracts on the side and have never been aware of any background checking. I don't even think most have my SSN, just the info for my bank account. And I have a pretty common name. There's convicts even in my state with the same name I can find on search. Often there's not even a formal contract, just a handshake. Also you can make money this way all over the world.
- ganoushoreilly 6y agoAnyone doing work that could be state, federal, finance, healthcare, related to children, etc. Will always have background checks, with many industries requiring them. That said, there aren't rules that say you can't hire someone with a felony, it's more up to the company, the crime, the disposition of the case, and what they'll be doing. There are always waivers so to speak. I've hired people that have had bad pasts, as long as they've shown they're on the right path. If we're not going to give people opportunities after they've completed what we as a society have deemed as recourse for their actions, what's the point in it all. You may not be able to get a clearance or work in some finance positions, but there are ways.
- BlueGh0st 6y agoUnfortunately I have a very unique name and despite my crime being committed in 2013 my name wasn't publicized widely until 2017. So I have no ability or desire to try to hide from my past, at this point. I'm just trying to own up to my mistakes and do better.
- oopsiforgot7 6y ago> security That might be your problem. From what I heard it's a more sensitive role so they will take a stricter stance.
- doopy1 6y agoOnly if you work for fortune 500 or a company that has government clients. Lots of boutique security companies probably don't care if you are otherwise qualified.
- Aeolun 6y agoSo? They may take a stricter stance, but I just fail to see how anything but extortion or treason really applies to working in security. Hell, even if you committed a murder that doesn’t make you any more likely to steal company secrets.
- nhumrich 6y agoStatistically, it does.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago> Statistically, it does. If that mattered, all of antidiscrimination law would be struck down.
- berdario 6y agoIANAL (and law differs around the globe) but... discrimination is prohibited towards protected categories. i.e. gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation... on top of it, most of those aren't things that you choose yourself. With the possible exception of religion (you're born into a certain culture, so "by default" you might feel affiliated to a certain religion, so asking people to renounce that would definitely be oppressive), and veteran status (which is not a protected category around the world, I think... though it is in the US) If you self-select into a segment of the population that no one is born into[1], yet it's lawfully discriminated against (i.e. felons ITT) I'm afraid that you don't have a good case to protect yourself from such discrimination. [1] Unfortunately, systemic racism and the plea/prosecutors/bail system make it so that people in certain segments of the population are more likely than others to end up involved in crimes.
- throwaway_45 6y agoAre you white? I think Race has a big part of if you make it or not especially if you have committed a felony.
- pbronez 6y agoInterestingly, some well-intentioned “ban the box” policies backfired in terms of racial justice in hiring. These campaigns managed to outlaw the “are you a felon?” question on job applications in an attempt to make it easier for felons, many of whom belong to racial minorities, to get a fair shot at employment based on their skills. Unfortunately this caused employers to hire even fewer members of those minority groups. Apparently without the box, employers see minority hires as an unacceptable risk. The world is a disappointing place sometimes.
- waterhouse 6y agoIf you forbid direct measurement of something, then people will use proxies, which is generally harmful to everyone involved. If you want to minimize the extent to which people use demographics as a proxy for qualities they want to select for, then make it as cheap and reliable as possible to measure those qualities directly.
- tripzilch 6y agoThat only ends when you make it easier to figure out whether someone is going to actually harm your business in the future, rather than finding out whether they have ever been a felon.
- ManBlanket 6y agoDon't check the felony checkbox. Seriously.
- Broken_Hippo 6y agoAt best, that can get you fired. Easily. And that makes it even more difficult to find another job in the future.
- fragmede 6y agoMore so than being a felon in the first place? Most places won't let felons get a foot in the door in the first place. Unless not-checking that box is a criminal offense, lying about your qualifications hasn't stopped some of the highest offices in the US being filled, so while it's easy to say "don't check the box", it's just as easy to say (and just as unrealistic, unless you have a time machine), to say "don't be a felon", to somebody that already has the conviction. Which is to say, it isn't really helpful. More realistically, the (un)likelyhood of a felony conviction going unnoticed on a background check means that whether or not you check the box, if the employer does a background check it will become known, but some places don't run the check and some don't actually care about the results but they're required to run the check.
- ManBlanket 6y agoSo a low chances of being fired is better than a zero chance of being hired? If it isn't immediately pertinent to the applicant's ability to do the job, for example if a convicted sex offender were applying for a position as a child caretaker, and the offender has paid their due to society then the employer has no right to ask. Everything but that type of conflict of interest should be treated as personal information. It's the justice system's job to serve justice, not the responsibility of HR.
- antoncohen 6y agoMove to San Francisco. Employers aren't allowed ask about arrests or conviction on a job application. They aren't allowed to do background checks until they have offered you the job. They can only consider convictions directly related to the job. And if they reject you because of a background check, they must notify you, allow you to respond, and reconsider based on the response. https://sfgov.org/olse/fair-chance-ordinance-fco https://sfgov.org/olse/fair-chance-ordinance-fco https://sfgov.org/olse/sites/default/files/FCO%20poster2020.pdf https://sfgov.org/olse/sites/default/files/FCO%20poster2020....
- abrookewood 6y agohey, look at the post from TheLastMile down below. No idea if you are close enough, but the job sounds like it would suit your skills.
- econcon 6y agoMy suggestion: 1. Go to a big city where software folks are paid a lot 2. Apply for roles at startups or small companies who find it hard to compete with big companies paying a lot. 3. Profit
- amelius 6y agoAnd live in an RV to save on housing costs.
- theoneanon42 6y agoHa - I had a few similar experiences. Shortly after I was released, I went to a temp agency. From the get-go I told them I was a felon. No problem, they said. Within a week I'm placed at a greeting card manufacturing plant. During lunch, I pop my head in the manager's office, and let them know how thankful I am for the position. I'm excited to have the opportunity. Manager never had someone do that before. Later on that afternoon I got a called in to that manager's office. Change of plans, no need to come in again. I could collect my things (what things? First day.) and go. Getting a gig in a security context is going to be hard. While most places can't openly not hire you due only to you being a felon, that's how it's going to be. It's not great, but that's how it is.
- nhumrich 6y agoI almost wonder if this has to do with the fact that you specialize in security. Because of the gray line a lot tech security specialist walk, its the de facto standard to run a background check and turn down an employee for even a sneeze or low credit score. For one, passing a SOC2 audit becomes increasingly difficult if there any type of criminal record on any IT staff.
- 3np 6y agoSmaller companies (5-20 employees) will most likely be a lot more understanding.
- rabite 6y agoIf you have real technical skills in regards to security know that you can generally sell memory corruption exploits completely anonymously, without any presentation of ID much less people asking if you're a felon or your spotty work history. Most of the real earners in security are making proof of concept code for vulns, and a huge swath of them are felons. Zerodium has generally the best payouts if you don't want to bother networking and building a client list. They do not care about any previous felonies. They only care that your code works. They will pay hundreds of thousands to a million dollars for PoC in some stuff. If you can find two exploits in mid-tier stuff a year, you can earn a six figure living. There's also the crypto economy. Another big tip is to move where cost of living in extremely low (Eastern Europe, Cambodia, etc) to make your freelance money last longer while you look for good bugs. I'm a former felon -- my felony conviction was vacated but nobody really seemed to care after I left prison by flipping the false charges on appeal that I wasn't technically a felon anymore. There were no real job opportunities and I had to make my own.