7 ms·

> What else would it be for the vast majority of people? You're investing thousands of dollars (either directly, or through opportunity cost) and huge chunk of

> What else would it be for the vast majority of people? You're investing thousands of dollars (either directly, or through opportunity cost) and huge chunk of time. If you can't make back that investment, then it just isn't worth for most people. The number of people that could make a living from pure research is always going to be miniscule. The number of people that could justify the expense (or opportunity cost) to just learn something for pleasure, is miniscule. You describe the function of the current system, it's not an inevitability. There's massive wealth in the US, and it could absolutely subsidize a different kind of education which is intended to produce an educated and informed citizenry. It's telling that this is not a priority. (One could also imagine a hypothetical culture that does not prioritize earnings so highly, and could value other attributes of service or community more highly than earning high incomes, but let's not get too crazy here...) In reality, and sadly, higher ed is a series of moats. At the highest tier, the expensive schools protect the oligarchy by keeping their children in different social spheres than the rest of the population. At the level of state schools, it's a zero sum game that people feel forced to enter because their ability to make a living is otherwise severely impaired.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago
Looking at prior examples, state-subsidized education seems to become indoctrination at the worst possible time. The value of education being determined by employers may be suboptimal, but it's at least decentralised enough to resist mass dishonesty or tyranny. If you have an idea to replace the current system I'd want to know how it doesn't lose that feature before I listened further.
- theptip 6y ago
  Many European countries pay for their citizens’ university education, and from experience I can confirm that there is none of the sort of indoctrination that you are concerned about. If anything I’d say more college-educated citizens is a shield against tyranny, as it trains you to be more intellectually critical, and therefore (one would hope)c , inoculated somewhat against anti-factual biases.
  - tharne 6y ago
    If you don't think indoctrination at universities is a serious issue, you clearly haven't seen the inside of a college classroom for quite some time.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Do you have any examples? My university education, at a state university, was paid for by my state government. I have no idea what 'indoctrination' you're talking about. The only requirements that the state government gave my university were the requirements under their land-grant status.
      - throwawaysea 6y ago
        Colleges in the US are very skewed ideologically, towards the far left. This has been a very clear and consistent pattern building up over a few decades, but it has become obvious only in the last 5-10 years, where that bias has been exercised much more openly to promote one worldview and suppress all others. I recommend following The College Fix (http://www.thecollegefix.com/ http://www.thecollegefix.com/) or FIRE (https://www.thefire.org/ https://www.thefire.org/) to keep up with stories on this topic. There are also other publications like the Chronicle (https://www.chronicle.com/ https://www.chronicle.com/) or Inside Higher-ed (https://www.insidehighered.com/ https://www.insidehighered.com/) that feature some of this content. Here are several examples of political bias/indoctrination/monocultures on college campuses: - College faculty have overwhelmingly singular political preferences, based on their donations: https://www.thecollegefix.com/92-percent-of-college-faculty-members-in-ohio-give-to-democrats/ https://www.thecollegefix.com/92-percent-of-college-faculty-... - Professor who exposes lack of academic rigor in grievance studies is investigated by his university (Portland State) on "ethics" grounds: https://quillette.com/2019/07/29/when-ethics-review-becomes-ideological-review-the-case-of-peter-boghossian/ https://quillette.com/2019/07/29/when-ethics-review-becomes-... - College students oppose free speech/thought/inquiry on campuses per polls: https://www.thecollegefix.com/shock-poll-most-students-oppose-allowing-campus-speakers-on-controversial-topics/ https://www.thecollegefix.com/shock-poll-most-students-oppos... - University debate society bans Richard Dawkins from speaking to prioritize the "comfort" of their students: http://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-moving-ahead-with-richard-dawkins-address/ http://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-m... - University uses COVID as an excuse to ban some gatherings but not others based on ideology: https://www.scribd.com/document/477474467/Southeastern-Legal-Foundation-coronavirus-letter-on-September-24-to-East-Carolina https://www.scribd.com/document/477474467/Southeastern-Legal... - University punishes student for his Instagram posts: https://reason.com/2020/07/24/fordham-university-disciplines-student-austin-tong-for-political-instagram-posts/ https://reason.com/2020/07/24/fordham-university-disciplines... - Professor threatens to fail students who write about Trump in a positive light: https://www.yaf.org/news/illinois-professor-threatens-to-fail-conservative-student-tells-class-trump-is-pathological-liar/ https://www.yaf.org/news/illinois-professor-threatens-to-fai... - Professor bans student from class because he challenged the professor's views on gender: https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-student-kicked-out-of-class-for-telling-professor-there-are-only-two-genders https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-student-kicked-out-of-cla... - College tries to censor coursework that paints negative views of Islam: https://www.thefire.org/federal-court-rejects-unsound-lawsuit-targeting-college-course-discussing-islamic-terrorism/ https://www.thefire.org/federal-court-rejects-unsound-lawsui... I could keep going but this is what I was able to find quickly through search. The reality is that there is no room for views that go against the prevailing culture on most campuses today. Those who share the prevailing views are now in the camp of using the power of their supermajority to suppress/censor/punish/ban anyone who disagrees with them. Honest debate and truth seeking cannot take place in such an environment - and if that is true, then it follows that university environments tell people WHAT to think, not HOW to think, and that constitutes indoctrination.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Education determined by private employers will have less groupthink than education determined by a democratically elected group of legislators?
- kube-system 6y ago
  > Looking at prior examples, state-subsidized education seems to become indoctrination at the worst possible time. 3/4 of the university students in the US are currently enrolled in a state-subsidized public institution. This has been the status-quo for many decades. To the contrary, US state universities are known for their solid educational foundations and research output -- and the reputation of various private-universities in the US is rather spotty.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    The reputation of private schools is “spotty” in the sense of being a much broader distribution, IMO. The very top schools and the very worst schools tend to be private, with the latter being the (near-?)scam, for-profit schools.
- r00fus 6y ago
  That’s a lot of corporatocracy kool aid you’re drinking. Corporations (who pay lower taxes than citizens) in charge of education is a specific form of dystopian hell.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    I did say it was suboptimal. The fact that you chose to insult rather than put forward solutions tells me you either don't understand the strengths of such a system or know your own solution would fall short.
- gmadsen 6y ago
  college education is free in Germany. They also are known for their engineering prowess...
  - coredog64 6y ago
    Is it true that Germany “tracks” students early and aggressively? I.e. if you’re not doing well academically, then you are encouraged to use the vocational track. Not that there’s anything wrong with vocational training compared to a university. The plumber who came out for a 15 minute house call probably makes more than I do in a year.
    - sangnoir 6y ago
      > Not that there’s anything wrong with vocational training compared to a university. The quality of work put out by German tradesmen is also world-class: I think the system deserves praise. Small manufacturing businesses are the backbone of German exports.
- pelliphant 6y ago
  As a european that statement just seems disconnected from reality. I understand that it is how many americans view the world, but claiming that the society that I live in can't possible exist is... disheartening.
  - jimhefferon 6y ago
    Even to many Americans.
- usize 6y ago
  To maybe add some more particulars to this, in most Western countries governmental authority is legitimized via public opinion. We all have heard that "a well educated citizenry is critical to democracy" but one ought to also consider that one's education will impact one's opinions. So state funded education could theoretically manipulate mass opinion in favor of government backed positions over time (maybe by framing historical events in a particular way for example). Manipulating public opinion may seem petty or roundabout for a government but having legitimized policy creates a lot of stability for decision makers so it seems worthwhile. The gambit even pays off when the majority of the public isn't persuaded by education too, since the people who agree with you are by definition the "well educated" you can give their opinion more weight without seeming like a tyrant. That's the idea being alluded to by the parent here at least I think.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    Yes, and it's an idea that has no basis on the actual, not theoretical, experience of most of us here.
    - usize 6y ago
      Yeah I suppose to detect a situation like this you'd need to do some sort of meta analysis on changes in how historical narratives are framed versus government policy. Like, maybe some country goes from ally to non ally and then historical narratives around that country shift to a slightly more negative tone. I dunno.
      - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
        My opinion was more shaped by accounts of education when state power waned - By the accounts I've heard Rome, the USSR, the Ottomans etc all tried to retain power by tightening control over institutions of education. It's a natural lever to grab for when things get worse, and it's also when these institutions most need to be independent.
        6y ago
macspoofing 6y ago
>There's massive wealth in the US, and it could absolutely subsidize a different kind of education which is intended to produce an educated and informed citizenry. No. It couldn't. You certainly could make a 4-year degrees ostensibly an extension of high-school - where the school is fully paid for - and some countries do do that. There's still opportunity cost of not earning an income for those 4 years. There's no getting around that. >One could also imagine a hypothetical culture that does not prioritize earnings so highly, and could value other attributes of service or community more highly than earning high incomes, but let's not get too crazy here... Plenty of people do that already. In fact, most people balance out income with other life goals whether it's through career choices, deciding to stay home and raise kids, or even deciding to stay in some city because your entire family is there. So I don't know what you mean by a "hypothetical culture that does not prioritize earnings so highly", everyone already makes those considerations and though income is important, for most people it is not the most important thing. >At the highest tier, the expensive schools protect the oligarchy by keeping their children in different social spheres than the rest of the population. At the level of state schools, it's a zero sum game that people feel forced to enter because their ability to make a living is otherwise severely impaired. I don't agree with that characterization at all. For one thing, state schools provide quality education (that is as good as any high-priced ivy league school). I'm not sure what the zero sum game you're referring to is. Many people do see university as a vocational institution and what's wrong with that? Making Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, and most people are excited about becoming teachers, or software developers, lawyers, nurses or architects.
- scarmig 6y ago
  > For one thing, state schools provide quality education (that is as good as any high-priced ivy league school). I'm not sure what the zero sum game you're referring to is. I know UC-Davis provides as good or better an education than Stanford (not at all sarcastic and meant in an earnest way), but it seems willfully blind to not see that they serve different social and economic roles in the American class system.
  - macspoofing 6y ago
malandrew 6y ago
> an educated and informed citizenry. The sad part is that with the exception of those graduates with degrees that require mathematical or statistical rigor, I don't find my college educated friends to be better informed than my friends without degrees. If there is one thing I could change about education in the US, I would add classes in statistics starting in the same grade we start teaching algebra and I'd have students take both a pure math and a pure statistics classes every semester until they finish their schooling. Classes in philosophy, especially the philosophy of science I think should also be required. As should classes in logic. The problem is that education has become a factory that teaches people what to think and not how to think.
- onecommentman 6y ago
  There’s an old concept from classical education: rhetoric. The art of persuading people with words, writing, speech, debate. A small corner of students today, law and politics, learn this. In earlier times, we were sending a few people to college to be leaders, and thus all were expected and required to learn to persuade. The hoi polloi were not in college, and were to be convinced by said rhetorically trained leaders. There were many more hoi polloi, and democracy provided the check and balance between the educated and manipulative (in good and bad ways), and the unarmed masses. Now we have many more topics to cover and many more students, thus the term Universe-ity. Few students learn rhetoric formally. Which is good in the sense that when there is an expectation of needing to argue, it descends into sophistry. Arguments about how many angels fit on the head of a pin, etc. What all non-rhetoric students should learn is how not to be convinced, not to be persuaded. Something that has been called critical thinking. There have been a lot of writings in the past on how to train students in critical thinking. It was a hot topic in post-WWII education. When 60 million people die, arguably because of a lack of critical thinking, and those that survive go to college on the GI Bill, they start asking good questions. When hundreds of thousands of older students who lived through the horrors of modern war entered campus, they made it clear to the Academy that critical thinking was a priority. That sort of moral authority, gained at the end of a rifle barrel or in a cockpit facing life and death, is lacking now. Expand that to persuaders in the visual arts, and it becomes media studies. Media studies as the transliterate counterpart of critical thinking and classical rhetoric in text. Logic falls under rhetoric. And, when you think about it, there is a broad overlap between statistics and media studies. I recommend the book, How To Lie With Statistics, published in 1954. Tufte wrote some good stuff too. Not everybody needs to learn to be a persuader in college. That can be picked up later as needs arise or not. But everyone coming out of college needs to learn to be a critical thinker, an anti rhetorician. There are standard techniques, philosophies, ways of thinking, psychologies that could be bundled together in a Freshman course. I’m still a fan of General Semantics and cognitive bias research myself. Mixing humanities and STEM in a common cause. Fifty years ago as a high school senior, I developed a unit plan to do something similar for high school students.
deathgrips 6y ago
>At the level of state schools, it's a zero sum game that people feel forced to enter because their ability to make a living is otherwise severely impaired. What you're missing here is that colleges... teach stuff. You are more skilled after you get a good STEM degree than you were before you got that degree. Medical schools aren't a "zero sum game" or way to protect the oligarchy, they teach you how to practice medicine. This tangible, practical value of education is missing from the humanities.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  The humanities in theory would teach humanity. That is, the patterns of literature, philosophy, art, and communication that lead to the best human outcomes and amplify human talent and virtue. It should be training in how to engage with the wider world productively and positively.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

Looking at prior examples, state-subsidized education seems to become indoctrination at the worst possible time. The value of education being determined by employers may be suboptimal, but it's at least decentralised enough to resist mass dishonesty or tyranny. If you have an idea to replace the current system I'd want to know how it doesn't lose that feature before I listened further.

theptip 6y ago
Many European countries pay for their citizens’ university education, and from experience I can confirm that there is none of the sort of indoctrination that you are concerned about. If anything I’d say more college-educated citizens is a shield against tyranny, as it trains you to be more intellectually critical, and therefore (one would hope)c , inoculated somewhat against anti-factual biases.
- tharne 6y ago
  If you don't think indoctrination at universities is a serious issue, you clearly haven't seen the inside of a college classroom for quite some time.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Do you have any examples? My university education, at a state university, was paid for by my state government. I have no idea what 'indoctrination' you're talking about. The only requirements that the state government gave my university were the requirements under their land-grant status.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      Colleges in the US are very skewed ideologically, towards the far left. This has been a very clear and consistent pattern building up over a few decades, but it has become obvious only in the last 5-10 years, where that bias has been exercised much more openly to promote one worldview and suppress all others. I recommend following The College Fix (http://www.thecollegefix.com/ http://www.thecollegefix.com/) or FIRE (https://www.thefire.org/ https://www.thefire.org/) to keep up with stories on this topic. There are also other publications like the Chronicle (https://www.chronicle.com/ https://www.chronicle.com/) or Inside Higher-ed (https://www.insidehighered.com/ https://www.insidehighered.com/) that feature some of this content. Here are several examples of political bias/indoctrination/monocultures on college campuses: - College faculty have overwhelmingly singular political preferences, based on their donations: https://www.thecollegefix.com/92-percent-of-college-faculty-members-in-ohio-give-to-democrats/ https://www.thecollegefix.com/92-percent-of-college-faculty-... - Professor who exposes lack of academic rigor in grievance studies is investigated by his university (Portland State) on "ethics" grounds: https://quillette.com/2019/07/29/when-ethics-review-becomes-ideological-review-the-case-of-peter-boghossian/ https://quillette.com/2019/07/29/when-ethics-review-becomes-... - College students oppose free speech/thought/inquiry on campuses per polls: https://www.thecollegefix.com/shock-poll-most-students-oppose-allowing-campus-speakers-on-controversial-topics/ https://www.thecollegefix.com/shock-poll-most-students-oppos... - University debate society bans Richard Dawkins from speaking to prioritize the "comfort" of their students: http://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-moving-ahead-with-richard-dawkins-address/ http://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/09/the-hist-will-not-be-m... - University uses COVID as an excuse to ban some gatherings but not others based on ideology: https://www.scribd.com/document/477474467/Southeastern-Legal-Foundation-coronavirus-letter-on-September-24-to-East-Carolina https://www.scribd.com/document/477474467/Southeastern-Legal... - University punishes student for his Instagram posts: https://reason.com/2020/07/24/fordham-university-disciplines-student-austin-tong-for-political-instagram-posts/ https://reason.com/2020/07/24/fordham-university-disciplines... - Professor threatens to fail students who write about Trump in a positive light: https://www.yaf.org/news/illinois-professor-threatens-to-fail-conservative-student-tells-class-trump-is-pathological-liar/ https://www.yaf.org/news/illinois-professor-threatens-to-fai... - Professor bans student from class because he challenged the professor's views on gender: https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-student-kicked-out-of-class-for-telling-professor-there-are-only-two-genders https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-student-kicked-out-of-cla... - College tries to censor coursework that paints negative views of Islam: https://www.thefire.org/federal-court-rejects-unsound-lawsuit-targeting-college-course-discussing-islamic-terrorism/ https://www.thefire.org/federal-court-rejects-unsound-lawsui... I could keep going but this is what I was able to find quickly through search. The reality is that there is no room for views that go against the prevailing culture on most campuses today. Those who share the prevailing views are now in the camp of using the power of their supermajority to suppress/censor/punish/ban anyone who disagrees with them. Honest debate and truth seeking cannot take place in such an environment - and if that is true, then it follows that university environments tell people WHAT to think, not HOW to think, and that constitutes indoctrination.
adamsea 6y ago
Education determined by private employers will have less groupthink than education determined by a democratically elected group of legislators?
kube-system 6y ago
> Looking at prior examples, state-subsidized education seems to become indoctrination at the worst possible time. 3/4 of the university students in the US are currently enrolled in a state-subsidized public institution. This has been the status-quo for many decades. To the contrary, US state universities are known for their solid educational foundations and research output -- and the reputation of various private-universities in the US is rather spotty.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  The reputation of private schools is “spotty” in the sense of being a much broader distribution, IMO. The very top schools and the very worst schools tend to be private, with the latter being the (near-?)scam, for-profit schools.
r00fus 6y ago
That’s a lot of corporatocracy kool aid you’re drinking. Corporations (who pay lower taxes than citizens) in charge of education is a specific form of dystopian hell.
- SuoDuanDao 6y ago
  I did say it was suboptimal. The fact that you chose to insult rather than put forward solutions tells me you either don't understand the strengths of such a system or know your own solution would fall short.
gmadsen 6y ago
college education is free in Germany. They also are known for their engineering prowess...
- coredog64 6y ago
  Is it true that Germany “tracks” students early and aggressively? I.e. if you’re not doing well academically, then you are encouraged to use the vocational track. Not that there’s anything wrong with vocational training compared to a university. The plumber who came out for a 15 minute house call probably makes more than I do in a year.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    > Not that there’s anything wrong with vocational training compared to a university. The quality of work put out by German tradesmen is also world-class: I think the system deserves praise. Small manufacturing businesses are the backbone of German exports.
pelliphant 6y ago
As a european that statement just seems disconnected from reality. I understand that it is how many americans view the world, but claiming that the society that I live in can't possible exist is... disheartening.
- jimhefferon 6y ago
  Even to many Americans.
usize 6y ago
To maybe add some more particulars to this, in most Western countries governmental authority is legitimized via public opinion. We all have heard that "a well educated citizenry is critical to democracy" but one ought to also consider that one's education will impact one's opinions. So state funded education could theoretically manipulate mass opinion in favor of government backed positions over time (maybe by framing historical events in a particular way for example). Manipulating public opinion may seem petty or roundabout for a government but having legitimized policy creates a lot of stability for decision makers so it seems worthwhile. The gambit even pays off when the majority of the public isn't persuaded by education too, since the people who agree with you are by definition the "well educated" you can give their opinion more weight without seeming like a tyrant. That's the idea being alluded to by the parent here at least I think.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  Yes, and it's an idea that has no basis on the actual, not theoretical, experience of most of us here.
  - usize 6y ago
    Yeah I suppose to detect a situation like this you'd need to do some sort of meta analysis on changes in how historical narratives are framed versus government policy. Like, maybe some country goes from ally to non ally and then historical narratives around that country shift to a slightly more negative tone. I dunno.
    - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
      My opinion was more shaped by accounts of education when state power waned - By the accounts I've heard Rome, the USSR, the Ottomans etc all tried to retain power by tightening control over institutions of education. It's a natural lever to grab for when things get worse, and it's also when these institutions most need to be independent.
      - 6y ago

macspoofing 6y ago

>There's massive wealth in the US, and it could absolutely subsidize a different kind of education which is intended to produce an educated and informed citizenry. No. It couldn't. You certainly could make a 4-year degrees ostensibly an extension of high-school - where the school is fully paid for - and some countries do do that. There's still opportunity cost of not earning an income for those 4 years. There's no getting around that. >One could also imagine a hypothetical culture that does not prioritize earnings so highly, and could value other attributes of service or community more highly than earning high incomes, but let's not get too crazy here... Plenty of people do that already. In fact, most people balance out income with other life goals whether it's through career choices, deciding to stay home and raise kids, or even deciding to stay in some city because your entire family is there. So I don't know what you mean by a "hypothetical culture that does not prioritize earnings so highly", everyone already makes those considerations and though income is important, for most people it is not the most important thing. >At the highest tier, the expensive schools protect the oligarchy by keeping their children in different social spheres than the rest of the population. At the level of state schools, it's a zero sum game that people feel forced to enter because their ability to make a living is otherwise severely impaired. I don't agree with that characterization at all. For one thing, state schools provide quality education (that is as good as any high-priced ivy league school). I'm not sure what the zero sum game you're referring to is. Many people do see university as a vocational institution and what's wrong with that? Making Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, and most people are excited about becoming teachers, or software developers, lawyers, nurses or architects.

scarmig 6y ago
> For one thing, state schools provide quality education (that is as good as any high-priced ivy league school). I'm not sure what the zero sum game you're referring to is. I know UC-Davis provides as good or better an education than Stanford (not at all sarcastic and meant in an earnest way), but it seems willfully blind to not see that they serve different social and economic roles in the American class system.
- macspoofing 6y ago

malandrew 6y ago

> an educated and informed citizenry. The sad part is that with the exception of those graduates with degrees that require mathematical or statistical rigor, I don't find my college educated friends to be better informed than my friends without degrees. If there is one thing I could change about education in the US, I would add classes in statistics starting in the same grade we start teaching algebra and I'd have students take both a pure math and a pure statistics classes every semester until they finish their schooling. Classes in philosophy, especially the philosophy of science I think should also be required. As should classes in logic. The problem is that education has become a factory that teaches people what to think and not how to think.

onecommentman 6y ago
There’s an old concept from classical education: rhetoric. The art of persuading people with words, writing, speech, debate. A small corner of students today, law and politics, learn this. In earlier times, we were sending a few people to college to be leaders, and thus all were expected and required to learn to persuade. The hoi polloi were not in college, and were to be convinced by said rhetorically trained leaders. There were many more hoi polloi, and democracy provided the check and balance between the educated and manipulative (in good and bad ways), and the unarmed masses. Now we have many more topics to cover and many more students, thus the term Universe-ity. Few students learn rhetoric formally. Which is good in the sense that when there is an expectation of needing to argue, it descends into sophistry. Arguments about how many angels fit on the head of a pin, etc. What all non-rhetoric students should learn is how not to be convinced, not to be persuaded. Something that has been called critical thinking. There have been a lot of writings in the past on how to train students in critical thinking. It was a hot topic in post-WWII education. When 60 million people die, arguably because of a lack of critical thinking, and those that survive go to college on the GI Bill, they start asking good questions. When hundreds of thousands of older students who lived through the horrors of modern war entered campus, they made it clear to the Academy that critical thinking was a priority. That sort of moral authority, gained at the end of a rifle barrel or in a cockpit facing life and death, is lacking now. Expand that to persuaders in the visual arts, and it becomes media studies. Media studies as the transliterate counterpart of critical thinking and classical rhetoric in text. Logic falls under rhetoric. And, when you think about it, there is a broad overlap between statistics and media studies. I recommend the book, How To Lie With Statistics, published in 1954. Tufte wrote some good stuff too. Not everybody needs to learn to be a persuader in college. That can be picked up later as needs arise or not. But everyone coming out of college needs to learn to be a critical thinker, an anti rhetorician. There are standard techniques, philosophies, ways of thinking, psychologies that could be bundled together in a Freshman course. I’m still a fan of General Semantics and cognitive bias research myself. Mixing humanities and STEM in a common cause. Fifty years ago as a high school senior, I developed a unit plan to do something similar for high school students.

deathgrips 6y ago

>At the level of state schools, it's a zero sum game that people feel forced to enter because their ability to make a living is otherwise severely impaired. What you're missing here is that colleges... teach stuff. You are more skilled after you get a good STEM degree than you were before you got that degree. Medical schools aren't a "zero sum game" or way to protect the oligarchy, they teach you how to practice medicine. This tangible, practical value of education is missing from the humanities.

nitrogen 6y ago
The humanities in theory would teach humanity. That is, the patterns of literature, philosophy, art, and communication that lead to the best human outcomes and amplify human talent and virtue. It should be training in how to engage with the wider world productively and positively.