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I had a CS Prof who ran a bunch of Women Who Code type meetups. His observation was that the idea that in order to be a software engineer, you have to devote yo

I had a CS Prof who ran a bunch of Women Who Code type meetups. His observation was that the idea that in order to be a software engineer, you have to devote your entire life to it was the biggest turnoff to many of the women. You have to always be working on a side project, always going to meetups, engross yourself in the geek culture in order to feel like you can do the job. For many women it was just too much of a hassle. He advocated for tearing down some of these cultural norms as the best way to be more inclusive.

llampx 6y ago
Interesting. Where do these cultural norms come from? I think it is true that to be truly great at something you have to dedicate your life to it, whether you are a man or a woman. How do doctors and lawyers get by, without spending most of their waking hours learning?
- nradov 6y ago
  Law and medicine are professions which require a certain number of continuing education hours per year. For example lawyers in California have to complete 25 hours every three years. Everyone knows that going in. Most do little more than the minimum.
Pet_Ant 6y ago
> He advocated for tearing down some of these cultural norms as the best way to be more inclusive. But what about those for whom that is the draw? I mean is there any gain if women join but a lot of geeks leave?
- rednerrus 6y ago
  Can’t we have both? Do you have to be singularly focused on writing software to work in this field? I think we can have people who think of this as a career and people who are obsessed and they can work did by side.
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    > Can’t we have both? Do you have to be singularly focused on writing software to work in this field? I think we can have people who think of this as a career and people who are obsessed and they can work did by side. I don't think so, it can really effect the nature of a team. I remember when we had a vegetarian join our team and it really ruined steak sandwich Friday. You either lose the tradition, or they come and feel awkward, or you lose having the whole team there. Things like that can really mess with the vibe of a place. For the record, I thought very highly of the vegatarian... but I definitely liked the sandwhiches more. So if you have people that aren't as passionate you won't be able to use newer techniques or newer technologies and other perks of highly a highly skilled team.
imtringued 6y ago
I honestly don't understand. If people do side projects and programming in their free time then how is that not an expression of interest? What about the inverse? If someone is not willing to do that then how is that not a sign of disinterest? Someone who only does their job and nothing else is not exactly someone I would call highly motivated or highly interested. There is this misconception that there is an upper bound to how interested someone can be. As if you are either interested or not.
perl4ever 6y ago
Well, what if the idealists convince many of the men in the industry that the culture is terrible, but instead of trying to "tear down the cultural norms", they simply leave? I mean, what if people say "yes, this is true, this is all correct, the geek culture sucks, and I can simply walk away"? Who is going to reform it then? Did those who left do the wrong thing?

llampx 6y ago

Interesting. Where do these cultural norms come from? I think it is true that to be truly great at something you have to dedicate your life to it, whether you are a man or a woman. How do doctors and lawyers get by, without spending most of their waking hours learning?

nradov 6y ago
Law and medicine are professions which require a certain number of continuing education hours per year. For example lawyers in California have to complete 25 hours every three years. Everyone knows that going in. Most do little more than the minimum.

Pet_Ant 6y ago

> He advocated for tearing down some of these cultural norms as the best way to be more inclusive. But what about those for whom that is the draw? I mean is there any gain if women join but a lot of geeks leave?

rednerrus 6y ago
Can’t we have both? Do you have to be singularly focused on writing software to work in this field? I think we can have people who think of this as a career and people who are obsessed and they can work did by side.
- Pet_Ant 6y ago
  > Can’t we have both? Do you have to be singularly focused on writing software to work in this field? I think we can have people who think of this as a career and people who are obsessed and they can work did by side. I don't think so, it can really effect the nature of a team. I remember when we had a vegetarian join our team and it really ruined steak sandwich Friday. You either lose the tradition, or they come and feel awkward, or you lose having the whole team there. Things like that can really mess with the vibe of a place. For the record, I thought very highly of the vegatarian... but I definitely liked the sandwhiches more. So if you have people that aren't as passionate you won't be able to use newer techniques or newer technologies and other perks of highly a highly skilled team.

imtringued 6y ago

I honestly don't understand. If people do side projects and programming in their free time then how is that not an expression of interest? What about the inverse? If someone is not willing to do that then how is that not a sign of disinterest? Someone who only does their job and nothing else is not exactly someone I would call highly motivated or highly interested. There is this misconception that there is an upper bound to how interested someone can be. As if you are either interested or not.

perl4ever 6y ago

Well, what if the idealists convince many of the men in the industry that the culture is terrible, but instead of trying to "tear down the cultural norms", they simply leave? I mean, what if people say "yes, this is true, this is all correct, the geek culture sucks, and I can simply walk away"? Who is going to reform it then? Did those who left do the wrong thing?