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This article is very light on explaining why this might be necessary for the police. Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this advice was issued?

ampersandy 6y ago
My first thought is that police policy may require security audits/etc. before they have any location tracking software installed on their phones that may potentially be abused to know the location of police.
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  Right, this could be as simple as deny by default.
- dividuum 6y ago
  Any app using the Expose notification framework is explicitly forbidden from accessing any kind of location information, either GPS or otherwise. See https://blog.google/documents/72/Exposure_Notifications_Service_Additional_Terms.pdf https://blog.google/documents/72/Exposure_Notifications_Serv... (3 c i) and https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/Exposure_Notification_Addendum.pdf https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/Exposur... (3.3)
bargle0 6y ago
It might tip off to people that they are being observed by the police. That would be my guess.
- JD557 6y ago
  This seems plausible. I'm not sure how frequently the codes are refreshed, but you could just hide a bluetooth receiver near the police station to get the daily codes for most officers, transmit that to your phone and have an app that tells you if a police officer is nearby.
  - JamesBarney 6y ago
    Won't it just tell you if a police officer is within 2 meters for 15 minutes? Except for undercover or plain clothes police officers this doesn't seem like a big deal.
    - sc11 6y ago
      The tracing app itself will only tell you that but you can receive the BLE signals with other bluetooth sniffer apps.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    The key that identifies your phone is changed every 20 minutes. https://twitter.com/hadleybeeman/status/1309013275745685511?s=20 https://twitter.com/hadleybeeman/status/1309013275745685511?...
  - niklasrde 6y ago
    The codes are refreshed "every ten to twenty minutes" according to the Twitter thread linked above
    - dividuum 6y ago
      A bit of background. Every app that is intended to be actually used by a people essentially must use the framework included in the OS. Otherwise it would run into various roadblocks like not being able to properly run in the background or not having the required BLE access. So that leaves you with using the cross platform exposure notification frameworks on both iOS and Android. The way those work well documented https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing. The "Temporary Expose Key" (TEK) changes exactly every 10 minutes. How often the BLE MAC changes depends on the OS, but that's around 10-20 minutes. As you have to change both "fingerprints" at the same time to prevent tracking across individual changes (See also [1]), in practice the sent TEK is changed at the BLE MAC change interval. So that's where to 10-20 minutes come from. [1] A mostly theoretical flaw (as you need a large network of BLE scanners) on some devices: https://hackaday.com/2020/09/03/covid-tracing-framework-privacy-busted-by-bluetooth/ https://hackaday.com/2020/09/03/covid-tracing-framework-priv...
drcongo 6y ago
I'm guessing it's because they come into contact with so many people every day. Especially those policing the recent anti-mask "protests" in Trafalgar Square. Half the force would be self-isolating at any given time. However, it's just as likely that the app is spyware given that it doesn't, and can't link with any COVID tests you have via the NHS, only those done by Serco.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > and can't link with any COVID tests you have via the NHS They've changed it now so it should now be possible to let most tests performed by a public health authority or an nhs lab be reported on the app.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > I'm guessing it's because they come into contact with so many people every day. Especially those policing the recent anti-mask "protests" in Trafalgar Square. Half the force would be self-isolating at any given time. This seems like the equivalent of saying that we can't have carbon monoxide alarms in this building because they keep going off.
  - winphone1974 6y ago
    Yes, but I would hope that police are more aware of the situation and taking protective measures compared with say 2 people getting together for coffee. If this is the case the definition of contact needs to be different
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    > This seems like the equivalent of saying that we can't have carbon monoxide alarms in this building because they keep going off. The comparison works if you add that the building is always filled with CO and that this is a known fact and that people in it are pros and take the appropriate measures. In such case, CO alarms are just noise. Police evolve in a high risk environment and have procedure against that. Because of that and the security requirements of the Police, it has simply been concluded that the downsides of installing a third party tracker on a police phone outweighed the upsides.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
Could be mistrust about the anonymity properties of the system, but my guess is that they don't want too many officers to be confirmed as contacts, and thus be forced to self-isolate. If you don't look at the problem, there is no problem!
- kjaftaedi 6y ago
  If you assume that officers are following proper protocols (masks, gloves, proper hygiene) .. then I would say that it makes sense to not quarantine everyone that the officers come in contact with.
  - nostoc 6y ago
    If you assume that everybody follows the proper distancing and wears a mask, we'd have already solved this pandemic 6 months ago. Assuming people will follow proper protocols, whether they are police officers or not, is not a good plan.
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public. And this has also to be balanced with the fact that the Police requires a high level of security (not a good idea for them to be tracked by a third party app). It's much more important, because much more significant both in term of raw numbers and in term of risk of non compliance, to ensure that the general public follows the same: I was at the supermarket yesterday and the app told me that no less than 5 positive people were inside... with no consequences.
      - outworlder 6y ago
        > It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public This is not supported by evidence. In other words, the world doesn't function the way we wish it would.
winphone1974 6y ago
My guess is that contact times and distances are targeting unprotected citizens in their day to day. Police interact with a much more at risk target demographic but with better protection, protocols and awareness. This lack of calibration would probably trigger way more false positives
- iainmerrick 6y ago
  better protection, protocols and awareness What do you base that on? I don’t think the police are wearing masks at any greater rate than any other profession, for example. What makes them less at risk? I’d assume that police are being neither more nor less cautious than anyone else, on average, and are at relatively high risk just due to the nature of their jobs. If so it would be beneficial to the police and to everyone else for the police to use COVID contact tracing apps.
tinus_hn 6y ago
Rules for thee, not for me. That’s why. The police ‘has better protection’, ‘knows better’ or whatever excuse they come up with. In the end it’s just that, rules are for plebs, not for the police.
FandangoRanger 6y ago
Police don't like to be spied upon.

ampersandy 6y ago

My first thought is that police policy may require security audits/etc. before they have any location tracking software installed on their phones that may potentially be abused to know the location of police.

adrianmonk 6y ago
Right, this could be as simple as deny by default.
dividuum 6y ago
Any app using the Expose notification framework is explicitly forbidden from accessing any kind of location information, either GPS or otherwise. See https://blog.google/documents/72/Exposure_Notifications_Service_Additional_Terms.pdf https://blog.google/documents/72/Exposure_Notifications_Serv... (3 c i) and https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/Exposure_Notification_Addendum.pdf https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/Exposur... (3.3)

bargle0 6y ago

It might tip off to people that they are being observed by the police. That would be my guess.

JD557 6y ago
This seems plausible. I'm not sure how frequently the codes are refreshed, but you could just hide a bluetooth receiver near the police station to get the daily codes for most officers, transmit that to your phone and have an app that tells you if a police officer is nearby.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  Won't it just tell you if a police officer is within 2 meters for 15 minutes? Except for undercover or plain clothes police officers this doesn't seem like a big deal.
  - sc11 6y ago
    The tracing app itself will only tell you that but you can receive the BLE signals with other bluetooth sniffer apps.
- DanBC 6y ago
  The key that identifies your phone is changed every 20 minutes. https://twitter.com/hadleybeeman/status/1309013275745685511?s=20 https://twitter.com/hadleybeeman/status/1309013275745685511?...
- niklasrde 6y ago
  The codes are refreshed "every ten to twenty minutes" according to the Twitter thread linked above
  - dividuum 6y ago
    A bit of background. Every app that is intended to be actually used by a people essentially must use the framework included in the OS. Otherwise it would run into various roadblocks like not being able to properly run in the background or not having the required BLE access. So that leaves you with using the cross platform exposure notification frameworks on both iOS and Android. The way those work well documented https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing. The "Temporary Expose Key" (TEK) changes exactly every 10 minutes. How often the BLE MAC changes depends on the OS, but that's around 10-20 minutes. As you have to change both "fingerprints" at the same time to prevent tracking across individual changes (See also [1]), in practice the sent TEK is changed at the BLE MAC change interval. So that's where to 10-20 minutes come from. [1] A mostly theoretical flaw (as you need a large network of BLE scanners) on some devices: https://hackaday.com/2020/09/03/covid-tracing-framework-privacy-busted-by-bluetooth/ https://hackaday.com/2020/09/03/covid-tracing-framework-priv...

drcongo 6y ago

I'm guessing it's because they come into contact with so many people every day. Especially those policing the recent anti-mask "protests" in Trafalgar Square. Half the force would be self-isolating at any given time. However, it's just as likely that the app is spyware given that it doesn't, and can't link with any COVID tests you have via the NHS, only those done by Serco.

DanBC 6y ago
> and can't link with any COVID tests you have via the NHS They've changed it now so it should now be possible to let most tests performed by a public health authority or an nhs lab be reported on the app.
yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> I'm guessing it's because they come into contact with so many people every day. Especially those policing the recent anti-mask "protests" in Trafalgar Square. Half the force would be self-isolating at any given time. This seems like the equivalent of saying that we can't have carbon monoxide alarms in this building because they keep going off.
- winphone1974 6y ago
  Yes, but I would hope that police are more aware of the situation and taking protective measures compared with say 2 people getting together for coffee. If this is the case the definition of contact needs to be different
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  > This seems like the equivalent of saying that we can't have carbon monoxide alarms in this building because they keep going off. The comparison works if you add that the building is always filled with CO and that this is a known fact and that people in it are pros and take the appropriate measures. In such case, CO alarms are just noise. Police evolve in a high risk environment and have procedure against that. Because of that and the security requirements of the Police, it has simply been concluded that the downsides of installing a third party tracker on a police phone outweighed the upsides.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

Could be mistrust about the anonymity properties of the system, but my guess is that they don't want too many officers to be confirmed as contacts, and thus be forced to self-isolate. If you don't look at the problem, there is no problem!

kjaftaedi 6y ago
If you assume that officers are following proper protocols (masks, gloves, proper hygiene) .. then I would say that it makes sense to not quarantine everyone that the officers come in contact with.
- nostoc 6y ago
  If you assume that everybody follows the proper distancing and wears a mask, we'd have already solved this pandemic 6 months ago. Assuming people will follow proper protocols, whether they are police officers or not, is not a good plan.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public. And this has also to be balanced with the fact that the Police requires a high level of security (not a good idea for them to be tracked by a third party app). It's much more important, because much more significant both in term of raw numbers and in term of risk of non compliance, to ensure that the general public follows the same: I was at the supermarket yesterday and the app told me that no less than 5 positive people were inside... with no consequences.
    - outworlder 6y ago
      > It's reasonable to assume that Police has procedures that are followed, or at least that are followed infinitely better than the general public This is not supported by evidence. In other words, the world doesn't function the way we wish it would.

winphone1974 6y ago

My guess is that contact times and distances are targeting unprotected citizens in their day to day. Police interact with a much more at risk target demographic but with better protection, protocols and awareness. This lack of calibration would probably trigger way more false positives

iainmerrick 6y ago
better protection, protocols and awareness What do you base that on? I don’t think the police are wearing masks at any greater rate than any other profession, for example. What makes them less at risk? I’d assume that police are being neither more nor less cautious than anyone else, on average, and are at relatively high risk just due to the nature of their jobs. If so it would be beneficial to the police and to everyone else for the police to use COVID contact tracing apps.

tinus_hn 6y ago

Rules for thee, not for me. That’s why. The police ‘has better protection’, ‘knows better’ or whatever excuse they come up with. In the end it’s just that, rules are for plebs, not for the police.

FandangoRanger 6y ago

Police don't like to be spied upon.