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The idea that Uber is somehow more dangerous than a black cab or minicab - neither of which keep any record of who is driving, where they took you or who you ar

The idea that Uber is somehow more dangerous than a black cab or minicab - neither of which keep any record of who is driving, where they took you or who you are is just silly. Taxis in London were just terrible (and expensive) until Uber

secondcoming 6y ago
Yup. Black cabs are only really for tourists and people in a desparate rush. I can't remember the last time I got one.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  And remember all that stress of making sure you had enough money left for a cab at the end of the night? Then getting stuck somewhere weird because you didn’t? Or the minicab getting completely lost? Or charging you 2X what you agreed? Or having the back seat covered in vomit? Oh the fun of pre-Uber cabs.
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    Oh and the stress of watching the meter tick up and up past how much money you have and then having to do a detour to a cash point costing you even more money and the driver getting really mad at you because they think you’re doing a runner?
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      Well, they did not want to accept cards because cards cost them and leave a trail. It was a case of them wanting their cake and eating it too. Uber and friends effectively forced them (or local authorities) to accept cards. Where I live the council and taxis have been endlessly moaning about Uber but a couple of years ago they made accepting card payments mandatory for black cabs... Cause and effect.
      - JAlexoid 6y ago
        Black cab drivers are the buggy drivers... moaning about the progress and comfort, while trying to force the government to give them the monopoly on a service. &%^k them
  - esotericimpl 6y ago
    You’re not rich, you can’t afford a private car that can pay for a a massively overgrown company and a drivers livelihood. There’s a reason the cost is so high for cabs in London. Great public transportation and high col. if you’re complaining about the cost of a cab ride , remember the cost would be the same if Uber marketing wasn’t subsidizing your rides.
    - ukoki 6y ago
      Liveable wages might be one part of it, but blackcabs also charge more due to restricted supply caused by a 3-4 year qualification requirement that is almost completely obsolete in the age of GPS navigation.
      - JAlexoid 6y ago
        Government enforced monopoly typically results in this kind of crap.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      The cost of an Uber ride is roughly the same as for a minicab. So.... I'm guessing that they don't subsidise much. Black cabs is a different story.
- dx034 6y ago
  Or business expenses. Black cabs still tend to get you to your destination faster than Uber. They're faster to hail (at least in busy areas), can often use bus lanes and have more knowledge of the city. Their pricing is insane but I've never had an Uber that could beat a black cab.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    > can often use bus lanes Indeed, that should be banned right off, but as you astutely point out, rich people want to get around faster than the rest of us.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      Why? Its not like bus lanes are exactly overflowing with traffic would you ban cyclists from bus lanes as well.
      - iso1631 6y ago
        You could let teslas in bus lanes and they wouldn't be overflowing with traffic, that's hardly the point. Bus lanes should be for vehicles that add very little to congestion, either because of the number of people transported (as in the case of a bus), or because of the size of the vehicle (bikes, motorbikes, e-scooters). Black cabs (and ubers) have an effective occupancy even lower than private cars.
        C1sc0cat 6y ago
        A lot of cab and uber use in London is groups not just singletons - its cheaper for 3 or 4 people to use a back cab or uber for short journeys than use the tube
        iso1631 6y ago
        So allow high occupancy vehicles (say at least 3 passengers, 4 for taxis) in bus lanes.
mft_ 6y ago
For all of the issues around Uber, they disrupted a market that desperately needed disrupting. The black cabs in London are a great example: expensive, uncomfortable, often draughty and cold, unpredictable, cash only, and often unfriendly drivers. How hard would it have been for black cabs to have an app offering Uber’s features - easy location-aware ordering and seamless payment? Technologically, it wouldn’t have been terribly hard... but of course they had their own misaligned incentives to not do so. So on this front... bravo, Uber.
- AdamGibbins 6y ago
  Black cabs haven't been cash only since 2016, its now required to accept card.
  - dx034 6y ago
    Uber has been in London since before that, competition by Uber and other minicabs was probably a reason for card requirements for black cabs.
  - twic 6y ago
    The card machine is often mysteriously broken.
    - alasdair_ 6y ago
      Terrible shame that you’re mysteriously only carrying a credit card and no other form of payment then, isn’t it? :)
    - shawabawa3 6y ago
      they used to pull this a lot - if they try it now call them out. They aren't allowed to operate with a broken card machine
      - smileysteve 6y ago
        > if they try it now call them out This is a fun way to make tourists feel insecure. Call them out, where you wait on a foreign police, prove your identity, file a report -- in a non native accent / language -- in the best case... or in the worst case, where they'll take you where you don't want to go (or other cabs to pickup), potentially drive off in a dangerous way as you forcibly exit the vehicle, and blacklist you from other cars -- all while you're hoping to make it to a hotel, airport, tour safely and on time.
DanBC 6y ago
Uber was more dangerous, and has only been made safer because of campaigning and pressure. Some examples (but there are more) are use of the app as a taximeter; lack of DBS checks; lack of insurance; unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  > unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver. Funnily enough now that you have to wear a mask to drive (at least in the states) this point is a little easier to pull off probably.
- iso1631 6y ago
  > unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver Which can easily happen with any other minicab or black taxi. There's nothing special about people like John Worboys, other than unlike Uber he wasn't traceable from his victims accounts.
alasdair_ 6y ago
> Taxis in London were just terrible (and expensive) until Uber Private hire cabs were terrible. Hackney cabs (the black ones that do on-street pickup) were generally very good if a bit expensive.
- MagnumOpus 6y ago
  > Hackney cabs [...] very good If you didn't mind listening to racist diatribe from the driver and were willing to support their tax evasion as "the card reader's broken guv - cash only".
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    Ain't that the truth. The first time I drove a London cab, the driver appeared scruffy and a bit mad, constantly mumbling under his nose stuff like "I wouldn't mind hitting that guy, I really wouldn't" (after someone cut him off).
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    But supporting Ubers tax evasion and exploitation of workers is then.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      "Exploitattion".... when people chose to drive for Uber, instead of getting a full blown cab license or work for a fraudster cab company. I hate Uber for a lot of things, but they don't exploit anyone. If anything Uber is the disruptor that stopped straight up mobs owning the market.
      - C1sc0cat 6y ago
        I call pretending that they are self employed instead of workers and doing them out of holiday and sick pay - yeh I call that exploitation.
        6y ago
tokamak-teapot 6y ago
Taxis around here before Uber: * Quite possibly just someone in a car pretending to be a taxi. * 20 minutes on the phone to 3 different companies, to find out they won't come for two hours and they don't turn up anyway. * Dirty. * Terrible driving. * Rude. * Refuse to go where you've asked after you've already hailed one and got in. * Only take cash. * Take the long way to run the meter up. * Use other tricks to get paid more - 'Oh the meter's broken. That'll be $lots' * No way to see when they might arrive, or if there are any in the area. * No way to know anything about your driver. * No way to see which is your taxi when it arrives. * ... Taxis around here since Uber: * Some have an app that only works for their company, and is terrible. * Some have signed on to an app that works for more than one local companies, and is terrible. The rest is pretty much the same.
- thefounder 6y ago
  Does Uber pay taxes? Quite surprised that it's not mentioned as a requirement.
  - liamkinne 6y ago
    Likely not, but one of the reasons taxis want you to pay cash is it’s easier to report lower income and thus avoid tax.
    - thefounder 6y ago
      Yeah but at least you know the money stays(most of it) within the local economy.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    ... why wouldn't they pay taxes?
    - thefounder 6y ago
      Because they are a big tech corp. Even more, a US based one. https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/archive/hmrc-opens-uber-investigation https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/archiv...
wdb 6y ago
Might be, but you can't speak to a human at the Uber UK office. And yes, Uber is dangerous, I avoiding them due to my experience.
SilasX 6y ago
Wait, black cabs don't keep a record of who was driving? Or where they went?
JAlexoid 6y ago
Taxis are generally terrible, unless you're in one of the nordic countries. Uber is only slightly better. It's just an easier way of getting a cab. I was quite happy with service from MyTaxi in Lisbon, better than hailing a random cab.
lozf 6y ago
At least in London, licensed minicabs are supposed to keep records, at least of every journey's date & time, pick up location, destination, and the driver. This is enforced by the Public Carriage Office - a division of TfL, with quite hefty fines for companies and drivers that fail to comply.

secondcoming 6y ago

Yup. Black cabs are only really for tourists and people in a desparate rush. I can't remember the last time I got one.

jonplackett 6y ago
And remember all that stress of making sure you had enough money left for a cab at the end of the night? Then getting stuck somewhere weird because you didn’t? Or the minicab getting completely lost? Or charging you 2X what you agreed? Or having the back seat covered in vomit? Oh the fun of pre-Uber cabs.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Oh and the stress of watching the meter tick up and up past how much money you have and then having to do a detour to a cash point costing you even more money and the driver getting really mad at you because they think you’re doing a runner?
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Well, they did not want to accept cards because cards cost them and leave a trail. It was a case of them wanting their cake and eating it too. Uber and friends effectively forced them (or local authorities) to accept cards. Where I live the council and taxis have been endlessly moaning about Uber but a couple of years ago they made accepting card payments mandatory for black cabs... Cause and effect.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      Black cab drivers are the buggy drivers... moaning about the progress and comfort, while trying to force the government to give them the monopoly on a service. &%^k them
- esotericimpl 6y ago
  You’re not rich, you can’t afford a private car that can pay for a a massively overgrown company and a drivers livelihood. There’s a reason the cost is so high for cabs in London. Great public transportation and high col. if you’re complaining about the cost of a cab ride , remember the cost would be the same if Uber marketing wasn’t subsidizing your rides.
  - ukoki 6y ago
    Liveable wages might be one part of it, but blackcabs also charge more due to restricted supply caused by a 3-4 year qualification requirement that is almost completely obsolete in the age of GPS navigation.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      Government enforced monopoly typically results in this kind of crap.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    The cost of an Uber ride is roughly the same as for a minicab. So.... I'm guessing that they don't subsidise much. Black cabs is a different story.
dx034 6y ago
Or business expenses. Black cabs still tend to get you to your destination faster than Uber. They're faster to hail (at least in busy areas), can often use bus lanes and have more knowledge of the city. Their pricing is insane but I've never had an Uber that could beat a black cab.
- iso1631 6y ago
  > can often use bus lanes Indeed, that should be banned right off, but as you astutely point out, rich people want to get around faster than the rest of us.
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    Why? Its not like bus lanes are exactly overflowing with traffic would you ban cyclists from bus lanes as well.
    - iso1631 6y ago
      You could let teslas in bus lanes and they wouldn't be overflowing with traffic, that's hardly the point. Bus lanes should be for vehicles that add very little to congestion, either because of the number of people transported (as in the case of a bus), or because of the size of the vehicle (bikes, motorbikes, e-scooters). Black cabs (and ubers) have an effective occupancy even lower than private cars.
      - C1sc0cat 6y ago
        A lot of cab and uber use in London is groups not just singletons - its cheaper for 3 or 4 people to use a back cab or uber for short journeys than use the tube
        iso1631 6y ago
        So allow high occupancy vehicles (say at least 3 passengers, 4 for taxis) in bus lanes.

mft_ 6y ago

For all of the issues around Uber, they disrupted a market that desperately needed disrupting. The black cabs in London are a great example: expensive, uncomfortable, often draughty and cold, unpredictable, cash only, and often unfriendly drivers. How hard would it have been for black cabs to have an app offering Uber’s features - easy location-aware ordering and seamless payment? Technologically, it wouldn’t have been terribly hard... but of course they had their own misaligned incentives to not do so. So on this front... bravo, Uber.

AdamGibbins 6y ago
Black cabs haven't been cash only since 2016, its now required to accept card.
- dx034 6y ago
  Uber has been in London since before that, competition by Uber and other minicabs was probably a reason for card requirements for black cabs.
- twic 6y ago
  The card machine is often mysteriously broken.
  - alasdair_ 6y ago
    Terrible shame that you’re mysteriously only carrying a credit card and no other form of payment then, isn’t it? :)
  - shawabawa3 6y ago
    they used to pull this a lot - if they try it now call them out. They aren't allowed to operate with a broken card machine
    - smileysteve 6y ago
      > if they try it now call them out This is a fun way to make tourists feel insecure. Call them out, where you wait on a foreign police, prove your identity, file a report -- in a non native accent / language -- in the best case... or in the worst case, where they'll take you where you don't want to go (or other cabs to pickup), potentially drive off in a dangerous way as you forcibly exit the vehicle, and blacklist you from other cars -- all while you're hoping to make it to a hotel, airport, tour safely and on time.

DanBC 6y ago

Uber was more dangerous, and has only been made safer because of campaigning and pressure. Some examples (but there are more) are use of the app as a taximeter; lack of DBS checks; lack of insurance; unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver.

giancarlostoro 6y ago
> unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver. Funnily enough now that you have to wear a mask to drive (at least in the states) this point is a little easier to pull off probably.
iso1631 6y ago
> unauthorised drivers taking the place of the registered driver Which can easily happen with any other minicab or black taxi. There's nothing special about people like John Worboys, other than unlike Uber he wasn't traceable from his victims accounts.

alasdair_ 6y ago

> Taxis in London were just terrible (and expensive) until Uber Private hire cabs were terrible. Hackney cabs (the black ones that do on-street pickup) were generally very good if a bit expensive.

MagnumOpus 6y ago
> Hackney cabs [...] very good If you didn't mind listening to racist diatribe from the driver and were willing to support their tax evasion as "the card reader's broken guv - cash only".
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  Ain't that the truth. The first time I drove a London cab, the driver appeared scruffy and a bit mad, constantly mumbling under his nose stuff like "I wouldn't mind hitting that guy, I really wouldn't" (after someone cut him off).
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  But supporting Ubers tax evasion and exploitation of workers is then.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    "Exploitattion".... when people chose to drive for Uber, instead of getting a full blown cab license or work for a fraudster cab company. I hate Uber for a lot of things, but they don't exploit anyone. If anything Uber is the disruptor that stopped straight up mobs owning the market.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      I call pretending that they are self employed instead of workers and doing them out of holiday and sick pay - yeh I call that exploitation.
      - 6y ago

tokamak-teapot 6y ago

Taxis around here before Uber: * Quite possibly just someone in a car pretending to be a taxi. * 20 minutes on the phone to 3 different companies, to find out they won't come for two hours and they don't turn up anyway. * Dirty. * Terrible driving. * Rude. * Refuse to go where you've asked after you've already hailed one and got in. * Only take cash. * Take the long way to run the meter up. * Use other tricks to get paid more - 'Oh the meter's broken. That'll be $lots' * No way to see when they might arrive, or if there are any in the area. * No way to know anything about your driver. * No way to see which is your taxi when it arrives. * ... Taxis around here since Uber: * Some have an app that only works for their company, and is terrible. * Some have signed on to an app that works for more than one local companies, and is terrible. The rest is pretty much the same.

thefounder 6y ago
Does Uber pay taxes? Quite surprised that it's not mentioned as a requirement.
- liamkinne 6y ago
  Likely not, but one of the reasons taxis want you to pay cash is it’s easier to report lower income and thus avoid tax.
  - thefounder 6y ago
    Yeah but at least you know the money stays(most of it) within the local economy.
- ericmay 6y ago
  ... why wouldn't they pay taxes?
  - thefounder 6y ago
    Because they are a big tech corp. Even more, a US based one. https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/archive/hmrc-opens-uber-investigation https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/archiv...

wdb 6y ago

Might be, but you can't speak to a human at the Uber UK office. And yes, Uber is dangerous, I avoiding them due to my experience.

SilasX 6y ago

Wait, black cabs don't keep a record of who was driving? Or where they went?

JAlexoid 6y ago

Taxis are generally terrible, unless you're in one of the nordic countries. Uber is only slightly better. It's just an easier way of getting a cab. I was quite happy with service from MyTaxi in Lisbon, better than hailing a random cab.

lozf 6y ago

At least in London, licensed minicabs are supposed to keep records, at least of every journey's date & time, pick up location, destination, and the driver. This is enforced by the Public Carriage Office - a division of TfL, with quite hefty fines for companies and drivers that fail to comply.