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That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades. It's odd that Swed
by souprock 6y ago
That is enough time to have another kid. I have 12 so far. If I lived in Sweden, I wouldn't have to work. I could keep it going for decades.
It's odd that Swedes aren't taking full advantage of the situation.
- klipt 6y agoProbably not many houses in Sweden can fit 12 kids?
- pmiller2 6y agoI’d say it’s probably more like there aren’t many Swedes who could deal with a house with 12 kids. The after school logistics alone must be a nightmare. Either that, or there’s something plugging the loophole the GP mentions.
- 082349872349872 6y agoWould "taking full advantage of a situation" being frowned upon suffice in swedish society?
- pmiller2 6y agoI would say so. Social pressures are very powerful forces that act on humans. Last I checked, Swedes were human, too. :-)
- 082349872349872 6y agoGeopolitics and prison are the only two areas I'm aware of where everything becomes a strictly transactional all against all.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- imtringued 6y agoWhat about the difficulty of having 12 pregnancies? You'd have to set aside 12 years in the first place. A woman in such a family isn't planning on working.
- pmiller2 6y agoYour point is taken, but you’re assuming something about the family structure of said hypothetical, 12-kid house.
- baq 6y agothey might not have the same mother, though it is possible if you start early enough - but the health risk is terrifyingly large.
- Broken_Hippo 6y agoWomen don't need to be off work for the entire pregnancy nor the entire year after giving birth, though. If you are splitting your maternity leave with your spouse, you might not take an entire year off. You might just take the time that pays you more instead of being paid less: I don't know how it is other places, but you aren't getting paid for maternity leave if you don't work. (IIRC, in norway, the man doesn't get much leave if the woman isn't working). Your job is probably protected while on maternity leave too. I*d say that one of the main difficulties with 12 pregnancies is the actual pregnancies - they are hard on the body and honestly, it isn't recommended that folks have a pregnancy a year - if one even is able to have so many. The more likely situation is that having 12 children means some of those children are fosters or adoptions. And at that point, I don't actually care if someone has 12 children so long as they are good parents.
- garbagetime 6y agoMost swedes don't want so many kids.
- tjs8rj 6y agoWell I don't want 12 kids, but my mindset changes if enough kids means early retirement ;)
- fileeditview 6y agoI don't think you can relax a lot and enjoy retirement with 12 kids at home ;) This sounds like hard work to me..
- ido 6y agoWith that many kids the older ones are probably helping raise the younger. My wife's cousin has 5 kids (in relatively short intervals, I think there's less than 10 years between the oldest and youngest) & the 2 oldest ones help out a lot.
- st1x7 6y agoEven if we're being that cynical - taking on much more work than you can handle and increasing your expenses multiple multiple times for the next 20 years - that's not retirement.
- timc3 6y agoI am a Swede - there is no way that I want 12 kids. From both a personal point of view, and for the environmental reasons (though I get it if you are adopting).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- xornor 6y agoTwelve kids is 24/7 work. Why I would change 8 hours to it? It is also unethical way of life in this planet.
- acituan 6y ago> It is also unethical way of life in this planet. Let’s not project western purity codes to the entire planet. This planet still has countries with high mortality rates, infant and otherwise.
- herbstein 6y agoWell, the context is specifically Sweden. I don't think that's projecting any "western purity codes" anywhere.
- upgrejd 6y ago> It is also unethical way of life in this planet. According to you.
- rasz 6y agoThe new "asian" Swedes are.
- vinay427 6y agoThe fertility rate is about identical or even a little lower among Swedes with at least one foreign-born parent [1], although there is some difference for foreign-born Swedes [2]. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-fertility-rate-by-background-in-Sweden-1970-2012_fig1_316022476 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-fertility-rate-by-... [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2019/08/09/is-sweden-our-fertility-boosting-role-model/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2019/08/09/is-sweden-our...
- dijit 6y agoI take the point, but there is a lot of evidence that birth rates decline as safety increases (this includes financial safety). Here is one study (of many): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337068662_Declined_Total_Fertility_Rate_Among_Immigrants_and_the_Role_of_Newly_Arrived_Women_in_Norway https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337068662_Declined_... Even in the UK (from where I come) it's only first generation migrants that have many children, the second generation seems to fall in line with the society. From my anecdotal experience.
- mhaesh 6y ago24614115
- MichaelGlass 6y agoFlorida Man informs Sweden and Germany that their societies are failing. In other news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBqY-4oDWAQ&feature=youtu.be&t=196 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBqY-4oDWAQ&feature=youtu.be... But in all seriousness, Germany and Sweden (and the USA for that matter) all have sub-replacement fertility rates. I understand that you believe that people will reproduce like rabbits, especially if incentivized, but the data doesn't reflect that. In every system there are those that game the system. The question is: does the benefit for the majority outweigh the cost of those abusing the benefit?
- Thorrez 6y agoDoes Sweden want more kids? If so, I don't think someone having 12 kids is really abusing the benefit, but rather providing Sweden with what it wants.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- raxxorrax 6y agoThis is only problem with that is out economic system. Normally I would assume that would clearly point out the perversion of it, but that seems to be just a dream. Otherwise humanity isn't really in danger of dying out. You think people not having children are abusing the system? I know many who just don't want to become parents at 40 anymore, so they will never have children. That decision is also influenced by economic situations.
- vmception 6y agoThere is a lot of evidence to suggest that people want to be sexually active and don't want children until they have an existential crisis and many existing people are unplanned happenstances. Educated people don't have enough children to replace themselves, and its not because they are too busy. Give people the choice and most choose to do things preventing children until they have existential crisis. Remove the choice and people are have children at twice the rate, pretty much coinciding with when they become sexually active. It's not that hard to understand or perceive.
- sakjdlask 6y agoWould you mind sharing some of these evidence ?
- vmception 6y agoAverage age of first birth by country, across years. In a place like the US you can get more granular data down to the county level and see the same thing. Economic centers having the same trends in first birth age as other developed nations. There is an even distribution of sexual activity, you might just have to trust me on that one, but there might be some study to cross reference and show thats a constant. Given the same result occurring in so many places, the evidence suggests people aren't interested in children until they are afraid they can't pass on their genes in a healthy way. Fix that and I would expect to see the age increasing another ten years. Fix the stamina deterioration and I would expect to see the age increasing further again.
- phtrivier 6y agoYou seem to ne completely writing off many other factors that could make having kids later (at which age are people wealthy, independent, secure about their future, committed in a relationship, etc... compared to X generation ago ? How much access to people have to contraception ?) , as well as factors that could make you have kids earlier (peer pressure, cultural norms, etc...). "People being more selfish" might definitely be a factor, but you might come across as considering it like the factor, which would required exceptional data..
- m0zg 6y agoDunno man, raising kids is hard work. Although I heard incremental difficulty of raising more than 2 is sub-linear.
- gspr 6y agoHaving 12 kids seems like a lot more work than most jobs.
- kryptiskt 6y agoThe kids are a big win for society, so it's not an exploit, it's an incentive to breed.