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The millenary histories of the Egyptian and Chinese empires disagree. Yes, dynasties came and went, but those polities endured for thousands of years—indeed one

by qubex 6y ago

The millenary histories of the Egyptian and Chinese empires disagree. Yes, dynasties came and went, but those polities endured for thousands of years—indeed one could argue that the ongoing governance of China by the Communist Party is just the latest dynastic swing.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
I'll have to read up on Egypt and pre-XX-century China. How oppressive were these dynasties typically? What did the life look like for a regular subject?
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  The Vatican has almost a couple of millennia of continuance, but I'm not sure I'd want to say continual stability per se.
  - jlg23 6y ago
    Yes, for any "couple of" smaller two. And more than once it was not clear whether the Vatican was still relevant at all.
    - ianai 6y ago
      The Vatican is also not the same size and breadth as the US or China.
      - ben_w 6y ago
        The Vatican as a country, I would agree. The Vatican as the Catholic Church, does seem to be on-par with those, at least in terms of head count.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Compared to today's bureaucracy, taxes, etc, they were free as birds...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  We'll probably never know, unfortunately. The literate classes in ancient societies rarely wrote about the lives of subsistence farmers, who were the vast majority of the population, so while some details can be reconstructed it's very hard to speculate about how oppressed a typical farmer would have felt.
throwaway316943 6y ago
I think we’re talking about forms of government and not geographical countries. China definitely doesn’t fit here since it’s governing bodies have shifted so drastically in the last few hundred years. I don’t know much about the specifics of ancient Egyptian government but I imagine it would vary with the dynasty if not with the individual ruler. Traditional monarchies are based on the whims of a ruling elite, family, and individual after all. They have no constitution to provide continuity and all law, secular and religious, is superseded by royal decree.
yongjik 6y ago
Chinese dynasties got overthrown pretty regularly every two or three hundred years, with a good amount of divided kingdoms, or foreign invaders ruling over much of China, thrown in between. Oh, also switching dynasties frequently resulted in the entire previous royal family being summarily executed. For a brief(?) summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  And cultural knowledge: Burning of books and burying of scholars, Qin dynasty, 213 BCE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_books_and_burying_of_scholars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_books_and_burying_o... Xianyang Palace Archives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyang#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyang#History

by qubex 6y ago

TeMPOraL 6y ago

I'll have to read up on Egypt and pre-XX-century China. How oppressive were these dynasties typically? What did the life look like for a regular subject?

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
The Vatican has almost a couple of millennia of continuance, but I'm not sure I'd want to say continual stability per se.
- jlg23 6y ago
  Yes, for any "couple of" smaller two. And more than once it was not clear whether the Vatican was still relevant at all.
  - ianai 6y ago
    The Vatican is also not the same size and breadth as the US or China.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      The Vatican as a country, I would agree. The Vatican as the Catholic Church, does seem to be on-par with those, at least in terms of head count.
coldtea 6y ago
Compared to today's bureaucracy, taxes, etc, they were free as birds...
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
We'll probably never know, unfortunately. The literate classes in ancient societies rarely wrote about the lives of subsistence farmers, who were the vast majority of the population, so while some details can be reconstructed it's very hard to speculate about how oppressed a typical farmer would have felt.

throwaway316943 6y ago

I think we’re talking about forms of government and not geographical countries. China definitely doesn’t fit here since it’s governing bodies have shifted so drastically in the last few hundred years. I don’t know much about the specifics of ancient Egyptian government but I imagine it would vary with the dynasty if not with the individual ruler. Traditional monarchies are based on the whims of a ruling elite, family, and individual after all. They have no constitution to provide continuity and all law, secular and religious, is superseded by royal decree.

yongjik 6y ago

Chinese dynasties got overthrown pretty regularly every two or three hundred years, with a good amount of divided kingdoms, or foreign invaders ruling over much of China, thrown in between. Oh, also switching dynasties frequently resulted in the entire previous royal family being summarily executed. For a brief(?) summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history

dredmorbius 6y ago
And cultural knowledge: Burning of books and burying of scholars, Qin dynasty, 213 BCE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_books_and_burying_of_scholars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_books_and_burying_o... Xianyang Palace Archives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyang#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyang#History