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When i find bugs or 'featues' that make me waste time i blame developers. They clearly don't care anymore. So ordinary users have resorted to quiet desperation

When i find bugs or 'featues' that make me waste time i blame developers. They clearly don't care anymore. So ordinary users have resorted to quiet desperation through learned helplessness. Like all those 'redesigns' that remove features and turn what used to be a few memorized keystrokes to an agonizing series of scrollers, popups and "UX" animations. I just think developers don't care anymore. They don't yell enough at their marketing teams when they push for obvious bullshit features. They make so much money that they have no interest for the users, in fact nobody does. There's no way out of this, until AI replaces developers. When users can talk to their apps and customize them to 100% fit their needs, without the need for any developers, the users will have got their revenge

vkou 6y ago
The grass was greener when I was younger, and the sugar is sweeter. Most software has always been crap. There never was a golden age, when developers 'cared'. The truth is, some developers produced polished, well-working, well-made software. Some developers still do that.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Try using some old software. Like windows 7 or vim or emacs , or PHP or old reddit. Due to their age , they 've accumulated a lot of fixes to their bugs. They may look weird and old , but they waste less of my time.
  - sabujp 6y ago
    old.reddit.com is the best, is there a plugin/extension or some script to force chrome to always redirect to old.reddit.com for all reddit urls? edit: found https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiegeliagebegjdhebejdlknciafen?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiege... and https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiegeliagebegjdhebejdlknciafen?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiege... this one seems to be pretty popular (requestly) : https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/requestly-redirect-url-mo/mdnleldcmiljblolnjhpnblkcekpdkpa https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/requestly-redirect... anyone have better solutions?
    - swills 6y ago
      Yes, "Old Reddit Redirect": https://github.com/tom-james-watson/old-reddit-redirect https://github.com/tom-james-watson/old-reddit-redirect
    - delecti 6y ago
      If you're logged in, you can just have your account stay on the old design. preferences > beta options > uncheck "Use new Reddit as my default experience"
  - vkou 6y ago
    They waste less of your time, because they are either doing different things from what their new versions do, or you have more experience working around their problems. [1] I'm glad someone mentioned reddit in this subthread. I exclusively use old reddit, because I use reddit to read, and comment on text forums. The new reddit design is hot garbage for this usecase. But what it's not hot garbage for is scrolling through image-heavy/meme-heavy subreddits. It's much better than old reddit for that use case. New reddit doesn't suck for my use case because the reddit developers hate their users. New reddit sucks for my use case because reddit wants to be a 'scroll through memes' feed, not a message board. Complaining about it is like complaining that Mercedes-Benz doesn't really want to make airplanes anymore. Oh, and old reddit wasn't even good for my use case! I'd much rather use a real forum, then reddit's opinionated-UX disaster, but since everyone I want to talk to is on reddit (because they spend most of their time scrolling through memes), I have to suffer through it. [1] The parts of Windows that got overhauled visibly-to-the-user (mostly windows explorer + pre-installed programs) were always crap. The first thing I do on a new Windows installation is to install an orthodox file manager, because the OS is unusable for me without it. The overhauls under the hood were largely invisible. The new additions, like the search omnibar are, for the most part, decent.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      i didnt say devs hate users, i said they don't care. > because reddit wants to be It used to be that devs would add features to please users and apps didn't have an agenda about what they "wanted to be". And what prevented reddit from introducing a "meme feed mode" for subreddits that are full of memes? People seem to have forgotten that they can make incremental changes, not every update needs to be a full rewrite. > new additions, like the search omnibar are, See this isnt even new, windows 7 had a much more compact start menu without ads and with a search bar. They didn't add to that, or improve or that, they literally made it terrible. And my Photos app keeps crashing all the time, it's ridiculous. It didnt use to crash in win7. Another is the old Skype, the new one is still missing features that worked in the old one. But most of all, what's missing is snappiness, not because my computer is slow, but because the new apps use frameworks in which it's impossible to have low latency.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  I mean, there are actual measurable cases where “sugar was sweeter”: less chemicals, larger sizes, being produced closer to where you buy it and therefore being fresher, and smaller producers who delivered polished well-made product being squeezed out by large multi-national corporations.
- partyboat1586 6y ago
  I think what GP is saying is that there has been a paradigm shift away from unintuitive maximalist apps that are fast once learnt to intuitive minimalist apps that are slow as treacle because everything is in size 16pt font and designed for the first time user. Both have their downsides so in a way software has always been 'crap' but the ways in which it sucks have changed. I've worked on 'revamp' or 'refresh' projects and it's all about stripping out features with the misguided idea that somehow one particular piece of functionality is a vastly more important value proposition to the user than all the other features.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    > the misguided idea that somehow one particular piece of functionality is a vastly more important value proposition to the user than all the other features But isn't that mostly true? Doesn't have most software you use have a few core features, some you sometimes use and some you never use? A good UX revamp orders correctly these to appeal to most people (but of course too many are too aggressive about removing things).
- swills 6y ago
  Actually, the sugar was sweeter when you were younger, because as you age your taste buds become less sensitive: https://www.comfortkeepers.com/info-center/category/senior-health-and-wellbeing/article/aging-gracefully-changes-in-the-taste-buds-and-sense-of-smell https://www.comfortkeepers.com/info-center/category/senior-h... "Between the ages of 40 and 50, the number of taste buds decreases, and the rest begin to shrink, losing mass vital to their operation. After age 60, you may begin to lose the ability to distinguish the taste of sweet, salty, sour, and bitter foods. The sense of smell does not begin to fade until after the age of 70; its decrease exacerbates the loss of taste for those affected."
heavyset_go 6y ago
I disagree. The role of software engineers has become so commoditized that engineer input doesn't mean much to management, and for every engineer that goes against a decision, there are another dozen who will do what needs to be done without complaints. I see this as a symptom of the lack of democracy in the workplace.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Maybe if they cared more there would't be only one in a dozen who cares? It's my speculation but i think the culture of jumping from company to company every 2 years to maximize "total compensation" does not allow one to jump from being a code monkey to programmer.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    I think jumping from company to company is another symptom of the lack of workplace democracy. Why stick around at an employer that only sees you as a commodity and won't take your concerns into consideration over their bottom line? Unionized workers report higher levels of happiness, have better benefits and higher compensation, and get a say in how their work is done. They also stick around longer because they have better job security.

vkou 6y ago

The grass was greener when I was younger, and the sugar is sweeter. Most software has always been crap. There never was a golden age, when developers 'cared'. The truth is, some developers produced polished, well-working, well-made software. Some developers still do that.

cblconfederate 6y ago
Try using some old software. Like windows 7 or vim or emacs , or PHP or old reddit. Due to their age , they 've accumulated a lot of fixes to their bugs. They may look weird and old , but they waste less of my time.
- sabujp 6y ago
  old.reddit.com is the best, is there a plugin/extension or some script to force chrome to always redirect to old.reddit.com for all reddit urls? edit: found https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiegeliagebegjdhebejdlknciafen?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiege... and https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiegeliagebegjdhebejdlknciafen?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/redirector/pajiege... this one seems to be pretty popular (requestly) : https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/requestly-redirect-url-mo/mdnleldcmiljblolnjhpnblkcekpdkpa https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/requestly-redirect... anyone have better solutions?
  - swills 6y ago
    Yes, "Old Reddit Redirect": https://github.com/tom-james-watson/old-reddit-redirect https://github.com/tom-james-watson/old-reddit-redirect
  - delecti 6y ago
    If you're logged in, you can just have your account stay on the old design. preferences > beta options > uncheck "Use new Reddit as my default experience"
- vkou 6y ago
  They waste less of your time, because they are either doing different things from what their new versions do, or you have more experience working around their problems. [1] I'm glad someone mentioned reddit in this subthread. I exclusively use old reddit, because I use reddit to read, and comment on text forums. The new reddit design is hot garbage for this usecase. But what it's not hot garbage for is scrolling through image-heavy/meme-heavy subreddits. It's much better than old reddit for that use case. New reddit doesn't suck for my use case because the reddit developers hate their users. New reddit sucks for my use case because reddit wants to be a 'scroll through memes' feed, not a message board. Complaining about it is like complaining that Mercedes-Benz doesn't really want to make airplanes anymore. Oh, and old reddit wasn't even good for my use case! I'd much rather use a real forum, then reddit's opinionated-UX disaster, but since everyone I want to talk to is on reddit (because they spend most of their time scrolling through memes), I have to suffer through it. [1] The parts of Windows that got overhauled visibly-to-the-user (mostly windows explorer + pre-installed programs) were always crap. The first thing I do on a new Windows installation is to install an orthodox file manager, because the OS is unusable for me without it. The overhauls under the hood were largely invisible. The new additions, like the search omnibar are, for the most part, decent.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    i didnt say devs hate users, i said they don't care. > because reddit wants to be It used to be that devs would add features to please users and apps didn't have an agenda about what they "wanted to be". And what prevented reddit from introducing a "meme feed mode" for subreddits that are full of memes? People seem to have forgotten that they can make incremental changes, not every update needs to be a full rewrite. > new additions, like the search omnibar are, See this isnt even new, windows 7 had a much more compact start menu without ads and with a search bar. They didn't add to that, or improve or that, they literally made it terrible. And my Photos app keeps crashing all the time, it's ridiculous. It didnt use to crash in win7. Another is the old Skype, the new one is still missing features that worked in the old one. But most of all, what's missing is snappiness, not because my computer is slow, but because the new apps use frameworks in which it's impossible to have low latency.
joshspankit 6y ago
I mean, there are actual measurable cases where “sugar was sweeter”: less chemicals, larger sizes, being produced closer to where you buy it and therefore being fresher, and smaller producers who delivered polished well-made product being squeezed out by large multi-national corporations.
partyboat1586 6y ago
I think what GP is saying is that there has been a paradigm shift away from unintuitive maximalist apps that are fast once learnt to intuitive minimalist apps that are slow as treacle because everything is in size 16pt font and designed for the first time user. Both have their downsides so in a way software has always been 'crap' but the ways in which it sucks have changed. I've worked on 'revamp' or 'refresh' projects and it's all about stripping out features with the misguided idea that somehow one particular piece of functionality is a vastly more important value proposition to the user than all the other features.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  > the misguided idea that somehow one particular piece of functionality is a vastly more important value proposition to the user than all the other features But isn't that mostly true? Doesn't have most software you use have a few core features, some you sometimes use and some you never use? A good UX revamp orders correctly these to appeal to most people (but of course too many are too aggressive about removing things).
swills 6y ago
Actually, the sugar was sweeter when you were younger, because as you age your taste buds become less sensitive: https://www.comfortkeepers.com/info-center/category/senior-health-and-wellbeing/article/aging-gracefully-changes-in-the-taste-buds-and-sense-of-smell https://www.comfortkeepers.com/info-center/category/senior-h... "Between the ages of 40 and 50, the number of taste buds decreases, and the rest begin to shrink, losing mass vital to their operation. After age 60, you may begin to lose the ability to distinguish the taste of sweet, salty, sour, and bitter foods. The sense of smell does not begin to fade until after the age of 70; its decrease exacerbates the loss of taste for those affected."

heavyset_go 6y ago

I disagree. The role of software engineers has become so commoditized that engineer input doesn't mean much to management, and for every engineer that goes against a decision, there are another dozen who will do what needs to be done without complaints. I see this as a symptom of the lack of democracy in the workplace.

cblconfederate 6y ago
Maybe if they cared more there would't be only one in a dozen who cares? It's my speculation but i think the culture of jumping from company to company every 2 years to maximize "total compensation" does not allow one to jump from being a code monkey to programmer.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  I think jumping from company to company is another symptom of the lack of workplace democracy. Why stick around at an employer that only sees you as a commodity and won't take your concerns into consideration over their bottom line? Unionized workers report higher levels of happiness, have better benefits and higher compensation, and get a say in how their work is done. They also stick around longer because they have better job security.