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I'll be the first to tell you that humans are social beings that need social contact. I'll also be the first to tell you that social media is not necessary for

I'll be the first to tell you that humans are social beings that need social contact. I'll also be the first to tell you that social media is not necessary for that. I assume you're being hyperbolic with Whatsapp being vital for life, but do you honestly not know how humans got their fill of social interaction 12 years ago? And no, the answer isn't Facebook.

jim_and_derrick 6y ago
My wife pulled out dusty old binder of my sports cards. Readin thru those things was a trip. On one page with bball cards I had 90s Shaq w/ orlando, very early AI, kukoc, and pippen. Those cards (and sportscenter) were how you got stats and knew shit about sports. Now you have every possible statistic at your fingertips. In my day (90s) us kids had to memorize stats on the back of baseball cards!
closeparen 6y ago
It’s no longer socially acceptable to make unprompted PSTN voice calls, unless you and the recipient are on very familiar terms. Even with my parents, we always arrange a time via messaging first.
- hervature 6y ago
  Ok, and where exactly is Whatsapp a vital life necessity in your world of messaging before calling? Those also aren't forms of meaningful social interaction. I assume you again use messaging and/or voice to set up the actual interactions such as Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) and family get-togethers. I'm assuming you don't show up to those events and talk to your loved ones via Whatsapp. I don't have social media, barely text (my plan has 100 texts per month), and hardly talk by phone (100 minutes per month). However, I have multiple friends and family that can claim that I'm the only one to have ever come to visit them at their house. This is either so strange or such a positive impact on them that I somehow hear it from other friends/family even though I'm surrounded by ether. The moral of the story, the ether isn't as thick as you think and the vast majority of people's "social interactions" are so shallow that showing up to a friend's door to drop off a bottle of wine will be a highlight of their year.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    WhatsApp and its substitutes (iMessage, Facebook Messenger, Telegram, Signal, SMS) are where plans for richer interactions get made. If you don’t have any of these in common with a prospective social group, someone has to be highly motivated to relay plans to your landline.
    - maigret 6y ago
      Signal/SMS is not the same beast as WhatsApp in terms of surveillance, nudging and all of those things falling into "forced addiction". When is the last time a SMS app wanted to give you recommendation or force you online?
      - closeparen 6y ago
        WhatsApp has never done any of those things for me; it is exactly analogous to iMessage, just with a different user population.
        maigret 6y ago
        It looks like the same in the interactions, but it has critical differences beneath the surface. Start with the money - their business incentive is totally different. Apple sells devices, Facebook sells ads. One of those two companies have been regularly in the news regarding privacy breaches and disregard of their user data. And if you don't like or trust Apple, take Signal.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    What if someone lives abroad and is very close with a large extended family (plus immediate family), all of whom regularly communicate on WhatsApp? Probably not uncommon as Whatsapp was at first widely used outside the US or for folks living in the US to be in touch with family abroad. Very often one person is not able to change an entire family dynamic. Sure, they could not use WhatsApp, but then they’d rarely talk with their family! Point being, we don’t know the poster’s specific circumstances enough to offer any sort of informed critique. That said, the question of generalizing from the poster’s experience is, imho, a valid one. If we want to get all analytical about it, that’s my two cents ;). Which is to say, my opinion is barely worth the paper it’s written on. And since this is all on a screen ... ;)
- sriram_malhar 6y ago
  That would mean your parents and you are not on very familiar terms. Perhaps that is the situation for you, but it is by no means generalisable. I live pretty well without any personal social media. I call friends and family often, while being mindful of their time. Voice calls are wonderful.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    I no longer use anything with posts and likes and a feed, but direct and small-group messaging are pretty important among my peers. May I ask what generation are these people with whom you use only voice (and maybe snail mail)?
    - sriram_malhar 6y ago
      That's a good distinction between diff types of messaging. I use email and messages as well, but the voice call is the big component. Generation-wise, it is from 7yrs old (nieces) to 90yrs old (no surprise there; oldies love to chat).
    - hcurtiss 6y ago
      This site has posts and likes and a feed.
CaptArmchair 6y ago
It's hyperbole, but it still indicates a hidden very real and well known social dynamic: humans have an intrinsic drive to belong to a tribe. This is a very real behavioral mechanism which was essential to human survival as early as the paleolithicum and the emergence of the first hominid species. Not belonging to a tribe meant being exposed to hardships that you might not survive. Feeling lonely is part of that mechanism. That's your subconscious kicking you into high gear and go seek companionship in order to ensure your chances to survive as an individual. Kurz Gesagt explains this dynamic in more detail. [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA Modern technology, industrialisation and social advancements in healthcare, politics, law enforcement and agriculture have created circumstances in which you don't need to physically belong to a tribe 24/7 in order to survive. You can perfectly live alone and have your basic needs covered. However, that drive for social connection is still there. That's hard wired into us. And that's what social media companies are exploiting. Fear of missing out is exactly that. You don't want to be "out of the loop", you don't want to miss out on what's going on, you don't want to find yourself "outside" of a group. Think about how it was when you were in school, and you found out your friends had a get-together over the weekend and you weren't invited: it totally sucked. Well, that's basically that primitive part of your brain kicking into high gear, warning you that your survival may be at stake. 12 years ago, few people were on social media. And the vast majority of your friends contacted each other via cell phones, e-mail or MSN and such. You were less likely to miss out because you knew that the available channels didn't cater to 24/7 real time action with video and audio, plugging you in the middle of the action remotely. Today, that's totally different. Modern communication is literally that: 24/7 high intense social contacts with video/photo/audio fragmented across dozens of group chats, group calls,.. and dozens of channels to keep track off. Net result? Studies indicate an increased prevalence in anxiety, depression, loneliness, suicide, self harm and so on. There's a clear correlation between the two. As is shown in the documentary. The trade off of weaning off from all of that, for many, is having to battle with and against those engrained behavioural changes that make one grasp for their smartphone every other minute. And that's, basically, the very definition of addiction. Moreover, unlike other addictions, there's a very real chance that if you don't look at your smartphone for a day that, yes, you will miss out on information the in-crowd - peers at school, friends, co-workers with watercooler talk,... - deems important to know.

jim_and_derrick 6y ago

My wife pulled out dusty old binder of my sports cards. Readin thru those things was a trip. On one page with bball cards I had 90s Shaq w/ orlando, very early AI, kukoc, and pippen. Those cards (and sportscenter) were how you got stats and knew shit about sports. Now you have every possible statistic at your fingertips. In my day (90s) us kids had to memorize stats on the back of baseball cards!

closeparen 6y ago

It’s no longer socially acceptable to make unprompted PSTN voice calls, unless you and the recipient are on very familiar terms. Even with my parents, we always arrange a time via messaging first.

hervature 6y ago
Ok, and where exactly is Whatsapp a vital life necessity in your world of messaging before calling? Those also aren't forms of meaningful social interaction. I assume you again use messaging and/or voice to set up the actual interactions such as Christmas (or whatever you celebrate) and family get-togethers. I'm assuming you don't show up to those events and talk to your loved ones via Whatsapp. I don't have social media, barely text (my plan has 100 texts per month), and hardly talk by phone (100 minutes per month). However, I have multiple friends and family that can claim that I'm the only one to have ever come to visit them at their house. This is either so strange or such a positive impact on them that I somehow hear it from other friends/family even though I'm surrounded by ether. The moral of the story, the ether isn't as thick as you think and the vast majority of people's "social interactions" are so shallow that showing up to a friend's door to drop off a bottle of wine will be a highlight of their year.
- closeparen 6y ago
  WhatsApp and its substitutes (iMessage, Facebook Messenger, Telegram, Signal, SMS) are where plans for richer interactions get made. If you don’t have any of these in common with a prospective social group, someone has to be highly motivated to relay plans to your landline.
  - maigret 6y ago
    Signal/SMS is not the same beast as WhatsApp in terms of surveillance, nudging and all of those things falling into "forced addiction". When is the last time a SMS app wanted to give you recommendation or force you online?
    - closeparen 6y ago
      WhatsApp has never done any of those things for me; it is exactly analogous to iMessage, just with a different user population.
      - maigret 6y ago
        It looks like the same in the interactions, but it has critical differences beneath the surface. Start with the money - their business incentive is totally different. Apple sells devices, Facebook sells ads. One of those two companies have been regularly in the news regarding privacy breaches and disregard of their user data. And if you don't like or trust Apple, take Signal.
- adamsea 6y ago
  What if someone lives abroad and is very close with a large extended family (plus immediate family), all of whom regularly communicate on WhatsApp? Probably not uncommon as Whatsapp was at first widely used outside the US or for folks living in the US to be in touch with family abroad. Very often one person is not able to change an entire family dynamic. Sure, they could not use WhatsApp, but then they’d rarely talk with their family! Point being, we don’t know the poster’s specific circumstances enough to offer any sort of informed critique. That said, the question of generalizing from the poster’s experience is, imho, a valid one. If we want to get all analytical about it, that’s my two cents ;). Which is to say, my opinion is barely worth the paper it’s written on. And since this is all on a screen ... ;)
sriram_malhar 6y ago
That would mean your parents and you are not on very familiar terms. Perhaps that is the situation for you, but it is by no means generalisable. I live pretty well without any personal social media. I call friends and family often, while being mindful of their time. Voice calls are wonderful.
- closeparen 6y ago
  I no longer use anything with posts and likes and a feed, but direct and small-group messaging are pretty important among my peers. May I ask what generation are these people with whom you use only voice (and maybe snail mail)?
  - sriram_malhar 6y ago
    That's a good distinction between diff types of messaging. I use email and messages as well, but the voice call is the big component. Generation-wise, it is from 7yrs old (nieces) to 90yrs old (no surprise there; oldies love to chat).
  - hcurtiss 6y ago
    This site has posts and likes and a feed.

CaptArmchair 6y ago

It's hyperbole, but it still indicates a hidden very real and well known social dynamic: humans have an intrinsic drive to belong to a tribe. This is a very real behavioral mechanism which was essential to human survival as early as the paleolithicum and the emergence of the first hominid species. Not belonging to a tribe meant being exposed to hardships that you might not survive. Feeling lonely is part of that mechanism. That's your subconscious kicking you into high gear and go seek companionship in order to ensure your chances to survive as an individual. Kurz Gesagt explains this dynamic in more detail. [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA Modern technology, industrialisation and social advancements in healthcare, politics, law enforcement and agriculture have created circumstances in which you don't need to physically belong to a tribe 24/7 in order to survive. You can perfectly live alone and have your basic needs covered. However, that drive for social connection is still there. That's hard wired into us. And that's what social media companies are exploiting. Fear of missing out is exactly that. You don't want to be "out of the loop", you don't want to miss out on what's going on, you don't want to find yourself "outside" of a group. Think about how it was when you were in school, and you found out your friends had a get-together over the weekend and you weren't invited: it totally sucked. Well, that's basically that primitive part of your brain kicking into high gear, warning you that your survival may be at stake. 12 years ago, few people were on social media. And the vast majority of your friends contacted each other via cell phones, e-mail or MSN and such. You were less likely to miss out because you knew that the available channels didn't cater to 24/7 real time action with video and audio, plugging you in the middle of the action remotely. Today, that's totally different. Modern communication is literally that: 24/7 high intense social contacts with video/photo/audio fragmented across dozens of group chats, group calls,.. and dozens of channels to keep track off. Net result? Studies indicate an increased prevalence in anxiety, depression, loneliness, suicide, self harm and so on. There's a clear correlation between the two. As is shown in the documentary. The trade off of weaning off from all of that, for many, is having to battle with and against those engrained behavioural changes that make one grasp for their smartphone every other minute. And that's, basically, the very definition of addiction. Moreover, unlike other addictions, there's a very real chance that if you don't look at your smartphone for a day that, yes, you will miss out on information the in-crowd - peers at school, friends, co-workers with watercooler talk,... - deems important to know.