8 ms·

Jet Fuel Is Now So Cheap It’s Being Blended for Use by Ships

83 points by barney54 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago
If I'm reading the chart right, jet fuel prices are currently negative? Is this because they keep making it and have nowhere to store it? Also, > very low-sulfur fuel oil for the maritime industry I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters?
- technotony 6y ago
  Price is relative to shipping fuel, not absolute values. So it's not negative!
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Oh, I see. Was very curious how it could be negative for months at a time…
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- userbinator 6y ago
  I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters? They don't, but if the low-sulfur fuel is cheaper, I'm sure they would use it --- that is, unless it starts causing engine problems; ULSD has lower lubricity than regular diesel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel#Lubricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel#Lubric...
  - fuzzfactor 6y ago
    When I certified the first bargeload of ULSD, overnight my lab went from doing LSD to Ultra-LSD.
- jabl 6y ago
  > I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters? As of 2020 the sulphur limit has been lowered from the previous 3.5% to 0.5% (which is still a lot higher than modern road diesel). Alternatively, ships can use scrubbers to remove sulphur oxides from the exhaust gas. http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-2020.aspx http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-20...
Causality1 6y ago
That's worrying. Jet fuel is hellaciously toxic and I wonder how prepared shipboard operators are to handle the proper safety precautions.
- mlindner 6y ago
  Uh what? Jet fuel is basically the same as kerosene. It's no more toxic than gasoline or any other hydrocarbon.
- sp332 6y ago
  Bunker fuel is usually awful too, and this stuff has less sulfur at least.
  - melling 6y ago
    i thought new restrictions on sulfur largely reduced emissions in shipping. https://e360.yale.edu/features/at-last-the-shipping-industry-begins-cleaning-up-its-dirty-fuels https://e360.yale.edu/features/at-last-the-shipping-industry...
    - controversia 6y ago
      It does. An interesting side effect is that it could cause more CO2 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_1K2hnfnrAhXQxFkKHeciAKoQFjAAegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2071-1050%2F12%2F1%2F165%2Fpdf&usg=AOvVaw29ZXCjynMAq7WgG8EaVOnT https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c.... Also sulfur has a love hate relationship with global warming. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-22/new-shipping-fuel-rules-are-good-for-health-bad-for-climate https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-22/new-sh...
    - sp332 6y ago
      I hadn't realize the new restrictions were that low.
  - gibolt 6y ago
    For anyone unaware, bunker fuel is an absolutely nasty mixture. Ships are able to do anything they want once in international waters, which means it just gets dumped on the regular only to then follow environmental rules when at a destination.
sitkack 6y ago
Turn it into cheese!
jedberg 6y ago
Amusing given the artificially high airplane prices right now. For example, if you need to make an emergency trip from SFO to Melbourne, that will run you about $10,000 right now. Normally that flight would be about $4,000 for a next day ticket.
- soared 6y ago
  My favorite budget airline is doing $11 flights. I flew Denver -> SF this weekend for $33.
  - 0xfaded 6y ago
    Europe as well had bargain basement prices over the summer. Australia, on the other hand, is still in Covid elimination mode. I know that Perth right now is only letting in 75 people a day, and I can imagine you're paying for a lot of empty seats on a long range liner. I'm the case of Perth, it seems the one flight in per day is coming from Singapore. Therefore in my case it would be a matter of getting there first, which is a bit cheaper. Still, factor in the cost of quarantine and you're back to 10 grand. Unfortunately won't be making it back for Christmas this year :(
    - dbetteridge 6y ago
      It's crazy isn't it! We had a trip back to Perth penciled in for September this year but as you can imagine thats been put on a somewhat indefinite hold...
    - chinathrow 6y ago
      Perth might let in 75 people in a day, but regular travel for tourists is still not possible, at all. Even if they would go to for quarantine. https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions
    - donavanm 6y ago
      The countries 3,000 total last I checked. Also you must be an AU citizen or PR to enter & must have health ministry approval. Similarly to leave citizens require ministry approval (which IIRC has been granted about 2,500 times so far).

83 points by barney54 6y ago

If I'm reading the chart right, jet fuel prices are currently negative? Is this because they keep making it and have nowhere to store it? Also, > very low-sulfur fuel oil for the maritime industry I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters?

technotony 6y ago
Price is relative to shipping fuel, not absolute values. So it's not negative!
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Oh, I see. Was very curious how it could be negative for months at a time…
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
userbinator 6y ago
I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters? They don't, but if the low-sulfur fuel is cheaper, I'm sure they would use it --- that is, unless it starts causing engine problems; ULSD has lower lubricity than regular diesel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel#Lubricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel#Lubric...
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  When I certified the first bargeload of ULSD, overnight my lab went from doing LSD to Ultra-LSD.
jabl 6y ago
> I thought the maritime industry didn't care one bit about the environment and would use nasty fuel once in international waters? As of 2020 the sulphur limit has been lowered from the previous 3.5% to 0.5% (which is still a lot higher than modern road diesel). Alternatively, ships can use scrubbers to remove sulphur oxides from the exhaust gas. http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-2020.aspx http://www.imo.org/en/mediacentre/hottopics/pages/sulphur-20...

Causality1 6y ago

That's worrying. Jet fuel is hellaciously toxic and I wonder how prepared shipboard operators are to handle the proper safety precautions.

mlindner 6y ago
Uh what? Jet fuel is basically the same as kerosene. It's no more toxic than gasoline or any other hydrocarbon.
sp332 6y ago
Bunker fuel is usually awful too, and this stuff has less sulfur at least.
- melling 6y ago
  i thought new restrictions on sulfur largely reduced emissions in shipping. https://e360.yale.edu/features/at-last-the-shipping-industry-begins-cleaning-up-its-dirty-fuels https://e360.yale.edu/features/at-last-the-shipping-industry...
  - controversia 6y ago
    It does. An interesting side effect is that it could cause more CO2 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi_1K2hnfnrAhXQxFkKHeciAKoQFjAAegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2071-1050%2F12%2F1%2F165%2Fpdf&usg=AOvVaw29ZXCjynMAq7WgG8EaVOnT https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c.... Also sulfur has a love hate relationship with global warming. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-22/new-shipping-fuel-rules-are-good-for-health-bad-for-climate https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-22/new-sh...
  - sp332 6y ago
    I hadn't realize the new restrictions were that low.
- gibolt 6y ago
  For anyone unaware, bunker fuel is an absolutely nasty mixture. Ships are able to do anything they want once in international waters, which means it just gets dumped on the regular only to then follow environmental rules when at a destination.

sitkack 6y ago

Turn it into cheese!

jedberg 6y ago

Amusing given the artificially high airplane prices right now. For example, if you need to make an emergency trip from SFO to Melbourne, that will run you about $10,000 right now. Normally that flight would be about $4,000 for a next day ticket.

soared 6y ago
My favorite budget airline is doing $11 flights. I flew Denver -> SF this weekend for $33.
- 0xfaded 6y ago
  Europe as well had bargain basement prices over the summer. Australia, on the other hand, is still in Covid elimination mode. I know that Perth right now is only letting in 75 people a day, and I can imagine you're paying for a lot of empty seats on a long range liner. I'm the case of Perth, it seems the one flight in per day is coming from Singapore. Therefore in my case it would be a matter of getting there first, which is a bit cheaper. Still, factor in the cost of quarantine and you're back to 10 grand. Unfortunately won't be making it back for Christmas this year :(
  - dbetteridge 6y ago
    It's crazy isn't it! We had a trip back to Perth penciled in for September this year but as you can imagine thats been put on a somewhat indefinite hold...
  - chinathrow 6y ago
    Perth might let in 75 people in a day, but regular travel for tourists is still not possible, at all. Even if they would go to for quarantine. https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions
  - donavanm 6y ago
    The countries 3,000 total last I checked. Also you must be an AU citizen or PR to enter & must have health ministry approval. Similarly to leave citizens require ministry approval (which IIRC has been granted about 2,500 times so far).