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I would like to see the ad driven model removed as an option. I think it would help. And I think there is a separate case to be made to end ad targeting for oth

by erentz 6y ago

I would like to see the ad driven model removed as an option. I think it would help. And I think there is a separate case to be made to end ad targeting for other (privacy) reasons. But while watching this I realized that wouldn’t be the entire solution. Social platforms would seemingly still be incentivized to drive up engagement and to keep users addicted to their platforms vs other platforms. So what are some other solutions? Do we need to turn them into publishers to make them responsible for the content the spread? Or regulate algorithms and like buttons?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I think the broader issue is just engagement metrics, financial and non-financial, that reward wasting time. I think there's a very achievable alternate equilibrium, where social media companies see themselves as stores to browse for great content rather than TV-style engagement factories, although I don't have a great story for how to get from here to there. If some people spent hours every day aimlessly wandering around Walmart, everyone including Walmart would see the problem - they can't find what they're looking for, the store must be laid out poorly!
amelius 6y ago
Another solution is to break the network effect. Allow people to move to different (less intrusive) platforms without losing their contacts. For example, I would quit Facebook if "events" were public, and I could easily see which events my friends go to without logging in to Facebook, perhaps through some open protocol. I think universities should be more active in inventing secure, open protocols.
- aembleton 6y ago
  Would your friends be happy having which events they're attending to be made public? If not, how would Facebook know it was you requesting the information unless you log in?
wussboy 6y ago
The problem is that if you have two competing products and one has no funding and one has billions in revenue, the one with the most money will tend to dominate. So removing the ad revenue from your own product while not being able to remove it from your competitor really just hamstrings yourself.
octoberfranklin 6y ago
We can't get rid of the ad-supported model because AML/KYC laws have crippled all other forms of micropayment. But paying with your attention is exempt from AML/KYC, so it dominates due to lower regulatory load. I wrote a detailed comment about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006703

by erentz 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I think the broader issue is just engagement metrics, financial and non-financial, that reward wasting time. I think there's a very achievable alternate equilibrium, where social media companies see themselves as stores to browse for great content rather than TV-style engagement factories, although I don't have a great story for how to get from here to there. If some people spent hours every day aimlessly wandering around Walmart, everyone including Walmart would see the problem - they can't find what they're looking for, the store must be laid out poorly!

amelius 6y ago

Another solution is to break the network effect. Allow people to move to different (less intrusive) platforms without losing their contacts. For example, I would quit Facebook if "events" were public, and I could easily see which events my friends go to without logging in to Facebook, perhaps through some open protocol. I think universities should be more active in inventing secure, open protocols.

aembleton 6y ago
Would your friends be happy having which events they're attending to be made public? If not, how would Facebook know it was you requesting the information unless you log in?

wussboy 6y ago

The problem is that if you have two competing products and one has no funding and one has billions in revenue, the one with the most money will tend to dominate. So removing the ad revenue from your own product while not being able to remove it from your competitor really just hamstrings yourself.

octoberfranklin 6y ago

We can't get rid of the ad-supported model because AML/KYC laws have crippled all other forms of micropayment. But paying with your attention is exempt from AML/KYC, so it dominates due to lower regulatory load. I wrote a detailed comment about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24006703