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H1B rules are quite ridiculous (or more accurately, cruel). Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently b

H1B rules are quite ridiculous (or more accurately, cruel). Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? Before that, you technically had to leave the country the day you were laid off. Never mind that you might have a house a family and might have been living here for more than a decade. You would officially be staying illegally if you didn't leave right away and it would jeopardize your chances of getting a visa in the future. It's only through an historic odd mix of good pay and relatively laxer immigration rules that the US managed to attract a large pool of talent in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Students from my college who are about 5-10 years junior to me no longer consider it a viable place to plan a long-term career in due to the extreme precariousness of visa holders' life situations in the US. Politically speaking we have little to no power in numbers so neither politically party really cares. Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration, but in reality they don't care much about H1B style immigration and are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs, while we have unlikely allies in some Republicans because our presence benefits big companies. Common sense solutions standard across the world (such as skill-based / point-based systems) are looked down upon, while we keep getting kicked around on the political playground.

WilTimSon 6y ago
> Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? This is what happens when the people making the laws for unique experiences have never been even in the proximity of those experiences. (Well, in this case it's more likely just cruelty.) You get lawmakers who lived a standard life of an upper-class person and don't realize that finding a job isn't as easy as it may seem or as easy as it was 60 years ago. All that talk about "just go in, do a firm handshake and talk to the owner" might seem funny when it's loons on Facebook saying it but when it's what people base their perception of the world and their lawmaking on... that gets disturbing.
- Igelau 6y ago
  The distance between the political class and everyone else is shocking. This brings to mind the time that Obama was trying to cut 529 tax breaks and even Democrats were like "Dude, wtf!" For many of them it's been too long since they've had normal people problems. For immigrant experiences the gulf is even wider.
- jdsully 6y ago
  Its not an act of omission, this is a result of compromise with factions that don’t want immigration at all. The fact it discourages people is a feature not a bug.
  - firebaze 6y ago
    If you immigrate, you emigrate. If you successfully immigrate (let's say in the U.S.), you have skills sought there. Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. You'd stand even more of a chance to be one of a few in your home country, gaining status, gaining visibility, turning the tide. I know I'll probably be flagged for this question, but still: why do this? Why not help your origin country with your knowledge? Genuine question, since I had the same decision to make and chose to return, in order to help locally.
    - pbourke 6y ago
      > Why not help your origin country with your knowledge? I moved from Canada to the US in 2007. Things were different then, and the opportunities in the US were unique (I joined Amazon). The longer you stay, the harder it is to return: your network changes, you get used to life in the new place, etc. I will say that I’ve pondered the question of moving home nearly continuously since moving here and there always seems to be a compromise that we’re not ready to make yet. In the case of Canada, it was often the housing prices in the places where we’d like to live.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - maest 6y ago
      > Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. That's not guaranteed to be true. Take finance - if you want a career in this field there's only a handful of cities where it makes sense to live and work: London, Singapore, New York, maybe Tokyo. An exotic derivatives quant won't find much demand for their skills in, say, Almaty. Similarly, tech workers benefit from being in tech hubs (SV being one example). Oil engineers need to be around oil rigs and so on. Moreover, standards of living are different in different parts of the world. Levels of corruption, infrastructure development, civic engagement etc are much worse in some places than others. You may have had the foresight of choosing to be born in a well developed country, but many have not.
mancerayder 6y ago
> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration, but in reality they don't care much about H1B style immigration and are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs, Wait, what? Tech unions? I've never seen a single union in my entire 20 year career. I was sympathetic up until you complained about that. What unions? The H1B stuff goes back and forth politically. If you ask me, if the economy is poor then there's no excuse for encouraging immigration, especially of high paid labor. If unemployment is high, that is (and that's the part that fluctuates). Not to mention H1B is used to reduce wages and dump tech workers when they get old or expensive. However, the uncertainty you describe is intolerable, it should be a clear path and if someone is laying down roots and family, they shouldn't be living in fear. It's obviously a very mixed bag.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  https://ustechworkers.com/ https://ustechworkers.com/ for example. I don't know what makes something 'officially' a labor union but at least they call themselves that. There was also Washington state Tech Workers Union.
  - jdxcode 6y ago
    do they hold any significant influence? I've never heard of either one. I lived in WA state too.
  - damnyou 6y ago
    That's a front for a network of white nationalist organizations, not an actual union.
  - kaitai 6y ago
    Uh, when I go to that page I don't see the word "union" anywhere on it. I tried searching for "union" on it and didn't get anything either. Where's the union part? I am truly confused. How did you get the impression they have anything to do with being a union? I don't see the union part, or the members part, or the collective bargaining part; seems to me a union ought to have those components.
mathattack 6y ago
I concur that the H1B rules are awful. We should make it as easy as possible for the best in the world to come here. The laws as they stand directly abuse non-citizens for the benefit of companies, some of which are US based. The H1B holders don’t vote. The beneficiaries of a better system are more indirect, and less likely to make a case. (Most of us benefit when the best talent in the world is free to come here and build/create/pay taxes) However... The system is arbitrary and can punish people short term. It seems strange to buy a house in a country that can kick you out on no notice through no fault of your own.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  > It seems strange to buy a house in a country that can kick you out on no notice through no fault of your own. OK, it's strange to buy a house. What about marrying and having a kid? Many H1B workers here have lived there for decades (with no realistic hope of a green card in sight). Must we stay childless because we can be kicked out on no notice? I know your statement is well-intentioned but it comes off as one of those things that's easy to say in 'abstract' but it demonstrates a lack of understanding of actual life situations of people.
  - dragandj 6y ago
    AFAIK, marying a citizen gives you a straight path to resident papers and, later, citizenship, in the western world, including USA.
    - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
      Marrying a citizen, yes. But the chances of H1B visa holders marrying other H1B visa holders (or people from back home) are pretty high given that the elephant in the room is that all of this discussion disproportionally affects Indians and Chinese.
    - chucky_z 6y ago
      A close friend of mine got married 3 years ago. He is a dual citizen of China and the USA. His spouse is a Chinese citizen. This straight path you speak of they have been filing paperwork for and fighting for, for 3 years now. I believe he is just in the path to permanently moving to China and revoking his US citizenship status. Everything about this process sucks. :(
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
> are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs That’s a new one. What are these American tech unions you are speaking of? Googling only brings up a few obscure organizations that I’m sure don’t have much influence with the Democrats.
nrmitchi 6y ago
> Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? My worst situation dealing with this was a TN status rather than an H1B, where I was told at a border that I could be ineligible for admission to the US because I had no left the day that I was laid off from a previous position. I had to tell the CBP officer that there was a 60 day grace period, be told that the internet isn't a reliable source of information, and wait while he discovered this information on their own. Sitting and waiting I literally overheard this person, after learning of this grace period, ask a colleague if they had ever heard of it before. This was at a major Canada/US border crossing. It is apparently not just people on HN who are unaware of this, but also individuals charged with making US admission decisions.
- vecinu 6y ago
  I went through something similar but remember the name of the game is to not volunteer unnecessary information. Did you tell the agent you didn't leave after you were laid off? Or did you just ask for a new TN once you had a new offer? It seemed to me like being too truthful could hurt your chances more than to just ask for a new visa and let them process the TN as needed. Some employers wouldn't even report your termination date until some time in the future to give you time to find a new job.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    Your point about not offering unnecessary information is, unfortunately, good advice. In my situation it felt as if the officer was going to every possible length to find a reason to reject my application. I was explicitly asked why I was no longer with my former employer, what my last day of work was, and what date I had previously left the US to return to Canada. Being untruthful about any of these easily-verifiable points would have been much worse in the long run (since this officer definitely seemed intent on running down every possibility). Honestly I am lucky that I had a proof of my severance agreement, which showed it was not a voluntary departure.
    - vecinu 6y ago
jrochkind1 6y ago
If the Democrats are "pro-immigration", they haven't actually succesfully done much to show it. Generally, not limited to H1B. this country has become very anti-immigration generally, and I hate it. There isn't really such a thing as a "tech union" in the USA. I don't think very many tech H1B holders are working in areas with any unions. (And if they were wouldn't many union members be H1B holders themselves?) Actually, I suspect Democrats get more money from tech companies that benefit from H1B hires than Republicans do. Tech companies in the past tend to donate to Dem more than Republican. Of course, the biggest companies, in nearly every industry, donate to both parties hoping to influence whoever is in office. Perhaps that's what led to the bare improvement to a 60 day period under Obama, who was of course the last Democratic president. The Dems definitely haven't done any more for lower wage or less skilled immigrants, if you think they are somehow helping them but not H1B-type immigration, you are unfortunately mistaken.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  DACA was an executive order by a Democratic president.
  - mavelikara 6y ago
    How is DACA helping people on H-1B? It explicitly _excludes_ legal immigrant children who are waiting in greencard backlogs.
nickysielicki 6y ago
I fully support immigration reform and expedited citizenship for skilled workers. I empathize with you. I have a lot of friends from school who have to deal with this, and it sucks. On the other hand, the H1B system isn’t supposed to import fungible labor. These visa are supposed to be for highly specialized labor — highly specialized to the point that the openings are rare. It’s hard to fault an abused program for being inconsiderate of a problem it wasn’t supposed to solve.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  The nature of the H1B being tied to a single place of employment is ludicrous though. It enables a power dynamic where these workers are basically indentured servants. This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Once an H1B is offered it should remain in place for some set time period, with procedures in place to address fraud either in the case of the company or employee.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    This is the singular easiest change that would make lives for H1B employees easier. Even immigration-averse countries like European ones work this way. Give us a general work visa that let's us work for N years instead of making us puppets of the company we are currently working for.
    - calvinmorrison 6y ago
      Isn't a H1B visa literally for a single job that's not able to be filled? It's not a work permit for working any specialist job, companies need to justify the need specifically
      - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        Can we stop pretending that's true? Like there are really jobs that are sooooo unique that NO Americans have the skills and only some foreign worker unicorns can fulfill them? H1Bs are just skilled worker visas, let's stop with the charade that they're anything else.
bzb5 6y ago
Staying in a foreign country is a privilege, not a right.
- brutal_boi 6y ago
  You are baiting too hard
la6471 6y ago
Yes and you cannot expect the Native American workers to sympathize with your plight. The focus is on productivity and the cost of labor and not on humans behind it. The Native American workers had faced it for decades via outsourcing and offshoring and now the pendulum is swinging back to the right again. The rules will be changed ,if needed , for US and it’s citizens to win the game.
- jdxcode 6y ago
  I feel it's odd that you capitalized the "N" in "native". I assume you're not talking about these people[0]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Amer...
rahulpadalkar 6y ago
nice username.
ozim 6y ago
What one can expect from going to foreign country? People in mine (or yours) country will try to get as much as possible for free from others. If someone thinks that some country is composed only from good will and good people, it will be disappointing. There is price to pay for moving, it is not always obvious. I moved to another country and I earn more money than if I would not move, but opportunities that I left back in my country are somewhat biting me back after all those years.
war1025 6y ago
Work / study visas are (in my opinion anyway) a significant reason why the majority of post-graduate students are foreign. Working as a grad student is really a quite poor economic trade off unless you have the unspoken side benefit of qualifying for a visa. It's basically a form of academic wage suppression.
- foobiekr 6y ago
  Visas of many varieties are used for wage suppression. H1b, for example, is well studied to result in wage suppression.[1] [1] https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pdf https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pd...
addicted 6y ago
Other than the fact that Democrats have voted for bills solving this issue in both houses of Congress by vast majorities, and the last Democratic President took many executive actions (including the one you mention as well as others that were rolled back by Republicans) there is no evidence that Democrats really care.
YZF 6y ago
I had a job offer and TN status with a US company and I decided (last minute practically) not to move to the US for precisely this reason. That I'd have to leave the country on the same day I lost my job. Doing this with a family seemed too risky for me. I'm not sure what my parallel universe life in Seattle would have looked like but I've no regrets staying in Canada.
- yibg 6y ago
  FYI TN also has a 60 day grace period.
  - YZF 6y ago
    This was prior to the 60 day grace period. I know there's a 60 day grace period these days.
devmunchies 6y ago
> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration Actually its business tycoons who want cheap, abundant labor. Getting the media to frame it as a social issue was genius.
nbaksalyar 6y ago
> Before that, you technically had to leave the country the day you were laid off Interestingly enough, there's a very similar system in place in the United Kingdom (Tier 2 General). Not only you have to leave within 60 days after being laid off, but there's also a "cooling-off period" of 1 year, which means that you can't get a new visa during this period and effectively it resets your time until permanent residence, so you have no option but to start over.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  UK doesn't have "at-will" employment like the USA. Their PR system is also time based, which means you don't have to live in uncertainty forever, unlike the H1B which is lifelong temporary immigrant for certain nationalities.
akiselev 6y ago
Even when you have a supportive (non-exploitative) employer it's an unbelievably precarious position (personal story time!). In order to renew an H1b visa [1], immigrants have to go to a US consulate, which do not exist within the borders of the United States so leaving the country is required. For the vast majority, this is a day trip to Canada or Mexico or a small vacation to visit family in their home country so it's not really an issue. However, sometimes, the consulate will pull shit like a "State Department Security Check" because the subjects worked in an institute that happens to have a research nuclear reactor - nevermind that it's one of the largest scientific institutes in the world or that their fields of expertise have nothing to do with nuclear. The immigrants, if they chose to go to Canada or Mexico (as most do due to cost), are likely at this point stuck for months as undocumented immigrants in their new host country - unable to work with existing mortgages/apartments/cars/obligations to pay for in their old life, hotels and living expenses to pay for in their new life, and barely a month worth of sick time and vacation. Bonus: most of the things they could do to mitigate the disaster could jeopardize their permanent residency application. As far as I know, these standoffs usually end when the employers sue over the renewal or dump the employee completely in which case their entire lives have to be packed up and moved but they can't enter the United States to do so. Bonus #2: if both parents are working, they likely have separate H1b visas that won't clear together - family separation time! As you can imagine, going through this series of events is devastating, especially for children who have zero insight or control into the process. Cruel is an understatement. Edit: [1] See comment below, this applies to applications going through consular processing, which is a crucial detail
- kshacker 6y ago
  In order to renew an H1b visa, immigrants have to go to a US consulate I think you may be confusing 2 things. H1 Validity and H1 Visa. You can extend your H1 from within US and most people do. No one is forced to go out and come back. However, to extend H1 Visa, what you say is true. The difference is that visa allows you to go out of US, and then come back in, and for you to come back in, you need a visa that is valid at the time of entry. However, if you wanted to stay in US without going out and keep on extending H1 (to the extent allowed by law), you can.
scarface74 6y ago
> American tech unions hating H1Bs What the heck is a “tech union”? Who are in one?
ecdavis 6y ago
> Never mind that you might have a house a family and might have been living here for more than a decade. I lived in the US on a temporary, non-immigrant visa similar to the H-1B for six years. Buying a house and starting a family while on such a visa always struck me as deeply irresponsible. I was reticent to even get a pet. The US immigration process sucks, but it's sucked for a long time, and the extent to which it's going to suck for you in particular is knowable ahead of time. Simply reading the language on the forms you fill out while applying for such a visa makes it clear how the US government regards you[0]. To ignore that and live your life as though you have permanent residency already is to carelessly put yourself (and your family, if you have one) in a risky situation. I have sympathy for people who find themselves in this position. Leaving the US as a single person with no significant assets was tough enough for me, I can't imagine what it's like for someone who's really put down roots there. That said, if you were living like a "temporary worker in a speciality occupation" you wouldn't have put down roots. [0] I know a lot of people listen to their employers pie-in-the-sky promises of Green Cards and how layoffs "never happen" and so forth. You're an adult, though. Understand your legal situation for yourself.
dudul 6y ago
A decade? Have the rules changed over the past 10 years? When I was on an H1B the rule was that the visa was valid 3 years and could be renewed only once for another 3. How would you buy a house on a H1B? No banks would issue a mortgage to a non-immigrant visa holder. Two things can be true at the same time. Starting a "resident life" while on a temporary, non-immigrant visa doesn't sound like a great plan; and yes, this visa is horrendous and should be deeply reformed.
- pandaman 6y ago
  There is a loophole in AC21: if you have an approved I-140 then you can extend H-1B indefinitely in 3 year increments. The trick is that I-140, once approved for 6 months, cannot become unapproved via a USCIS memo. So there are now hundreds of thousdand H-1Bs with permanent I-140s getting infintie H-1B terms.

WilTimSon 6y ago

> Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? This is what happens when the people making the laws for unique experiences have never been even in the proximity of those experiences. (Well, in this case it's more likely just cruelty.) You get lawmakers who lived a standard life of an upper-class person and don't realize that finding a job isn't as easy as it may seem or as easy as it was 60 years ago. All that talk about "just go in, do a firm handshake and talk to the owner" might seem funny when it's loons on Facebook saying it but when it's what people base their perception of the world and their lawmaking on... that gets disturbing.

Igelau 6y ago
The distance between the political class and everyone else is shocking. This brings to mind the time that Obama was trying to cut 529 tax breaks and even Democrats were like "Dude, wtf!" For many of them it's been too long since they've had normal people problems. For immigrant experiences the gulf is even wider.
jdsully 6y ago
Its not an act of omission, this is a result of compromise with factions that don’t want immigration at all. The fact it discourages people is a feature not a bug.
- firebaze 6y ago
  If you immigrate, you emigrate. If you successfully immigrate (let's say in the U.S.), you have skills sought there. Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. You'd stand even more of a chance to be one of a few in your home country, gaining status, gaining visibility, turning the tide. I know I'll probably be flagged for this question, but still: why do this? Why not help your origin country with your knowledge? Genuine question, since I had the same decision to make and chose to return, in order to help locally.
  - pbourke 6y ago
    > Why not help your origin country with your knowledge? I moved from Canada to the US in 2007. Things were different then, and the opportunities in the US were unique (I joined Amazon). The longer you stay, the harder it is to return: your network changes, you get used to life in the new place, etc. I will say that I’ve pondered the question of moving home nearly continuously since moving here and there always seems to be a compromise that we’re not ready to make yet. In the case of Canada, it was often the housing prices in the places where we’d like to live.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - maest 6y ago
    > Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. That's not guaranteed to be true. Take finance - if you want a career in this field there's only a handful of cities where it makes sense to live and work: London, Singapore, New York, maybe Tokyo. An exotic derivatives quant won't find much demand for their skills in, say, Almaty. Similarly, tech workers benefit from being in tech hubs (SV being one example). Oil engineers need to be around oil rigs and so on. Moreover, standards of living are different in different parts of the world. Levels of corruption, infrastructure development, civic engagement etc are much worse in some places than others. You may have had the foresight of choosing to be born in a well developed country, but many have not.

mancerayder 6y ago

> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration, but in reality they don't care much about H1B style immigration and are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs, Wait, what? Tech unions? I've never seen a single union in my entire 20 year career. I was sympathetic up until you complained about that. What unions? The H1B stuff goes back and forth politically. If you ask me, if the economy is poor then there's no excuse for encouraging immigration, especially of high paid labor. If unemployment is high, that is (and that's the part that fluctuates). Not to mention H1B is used to reduce wages and dump tech workers when they get old or expensive. However, the uncertainty you describe is intolerable, it should be a clear path and if someone is laying down roots and family, they shouldn't be living in fear. It's obviously a very mixed bag.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
https://ustechworkers.com/ https://ustechworkers.com/ for example. I don't know what makes something 'officially' a labor union but at least they call themselves that. There was also Washington state Tech Workers Union.
- jdxcode 6y ago
  do they hold any significant influence? I've never heard of either one. I lived in WA state too.
- damnyou 6y ago
  That's a front for a network of white nationalist organizations, not an actual union.
- kaitai 6y ago
  Uh, when I go to that page I don't see the word "union" anywhere on it. I tried searching for "union" on it and didn't get anything either. Where's the union part? I am truly confused. How did you get the impression they have anything to do with being a union? I don't see the union part, or the members part, or the collective bargaining part; seems to me a union ought to have those components.

mathattack 6y ago

I concur that the H1B rules are awful. We should make it as easy as possible for the best in the world to come here. The laws as they stand directly abuse non-citizens for the benefit of companies, some of which are US based. The H1B holders don’t vote. The beneficiaries of a better system are more indirect, and less likely to make a case. (Most of us benefit when the best talent in the world is free to come here and build/create/pay taxes) However... The system is arbitrary and can punish people short term. It seems strange to buy a house in a country that can kick you out on no notice through no fault of your own.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
> It seems strange to buy a house in a country that can kick you out on no notice through no fault of your own. OK, it's strange to buy a house. What about marrying and having a kid? Many H1B workers here have lived there for decades (with no realistic hope of a green card in sight). Must we stay childless because we can be kicked out on no notice? I know your statement is well-intentioned but it comes off as one of those things that's easy to say in 'abstract' but it demonstrates a lack of understanding of actual life situations of people.
- dragandj 6y ago
  AFAIK, marying a citizen gives you a straight path to resident papers and, later, citizenship, in the western world, including USA.
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    Marrying a citizen, yes. But the chances of H1B visa holders marrying other H1B visa holders (or people from back home) are pretty high given that the elephant in the room is that all of this discussion disproportionally affects Indians and Chinese.
  - chucky_z 6y ago
    A close friend of mine got married 3 years ago. He is a dual citizen of China and the USA. His spouse is a Chinese citizen. This straight path you speak of they have been filing paperwork for and fighting for, for 3 years now. I believe he is just in the path to permanently moving to China and revoking his US citizenship status. Everything about this process sucks. :(

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

> are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs That’s a new one. What are these American tech unions you are speaking of? Googling only brings up a few obscure organizations that I’m sure don’t have much influence with the Democrats.

nrmitchi 6y ago

> Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? My worst situation dealing with this was a TN status rather than an H1B, where I was told at a border that I could be ineligible for admission to the US because I had no left the day that I was laid off from a previous position. I had to tell the CBP officer that there was a 60 day grace period, be told that the internet isn't a reliable source of information, and wait while he discovered this information on their own. Sitting and waiting I literally overheard this person, after learning of this grace period, ask a colleague if they had ever heard of it before. This was at a major Canada/US border crossing. It is apparently not just people on HN who are unaware of this, but also individuals charged with making US admission decisions.

vecinu 6y ago
I went through something similar but remember the name of the game is to not volunteer unnecessary information. Did you tell the agent you didn't leave after you were laid off? Or did you just ask for a new TN once you had a new offer? It seemed to me like being too truthful could hurt your chances more than to just ask for a new visa and let them process the TN as needed. Some employers wouldn't even report your termination date until some time in the future to give you time to find a new job.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  Your point about not offering unnecessary information is, unfortunately, good advice. In my situation it felt as if the officer was going to every possible length to find a reason to reject my application. I was explicitly asked why I was no longer with my former employer, what my last day of work was, and what date I had previously left the US to return to Canada. Being untruthful about any of these easily-verifiable points would have been much worse in the long run (since this officer definitely seemed intent on running down every possibility). Honestly I am lucky that I had a proof of my severance agreement, which showed it was not a voluntary departure.
  - vecinu 6y ago

jrochkind1 6y ago

If the Democrats are "pro-immigration", they haven't actually succesfully done much to show it. Generally, not limited to H1B. this country has become very anti-immigration generally, and I hate it. There isn't really such a thing as a "tech union" in the USA. I don't think very many tech H1B holders are working in areas with any unions. (And if they were wouldn't many union members be H1B holders themselves?) Actually, I suspect Democrats get more money from tech companies that benefit from H1B hires than Republicans do. Tech companies in the past tend to donate to Dem more than Republican. Of course, the biggest companies, in nearly every industry, donate to both parties hoping to influence whoever is in office. Perhaps that's what led to the bare improvement to a 60 day period under Obama, who was of course the last Democratic president. The Dems definitely haven't done any more for lower wage or less skilled immigrants, if you think they are somehow helping them but not H1B-type immigration, you are unfortunately mistaken.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
DACA was an executive order by a Democratic president.
- mavelikara 6y ago
  How is DACA helping people on H-1B? It explicitly _excludes_ legal immigrant children who are waiting in greencard backlogs.

nickysielicki 6y ago

I fully support immigration reform and expedited citizenship for skilled workers. I empathize with you. I have a lot of friends from school who have to deal with this, and it sucks. On the other hand, the H1B system isn’t supposed to import fungible labor. These visa are supposed to be for highly specialized labor — highly specialized to the point that the openings are rare. It’s hard to fault an abused program for being inconsiderate of a problem it wasn’t supposed to solve.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
The nature of the H1B being tied to a single place of employment is ludicrous though. It enables a power dynamic where these workers are basically indentured servants. This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Once an H1B is offered it should remain in place for some set time period, with procedures in place to address fraud either in the case of the company or employee.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  This is the singular easiest change that would make lives for H1B employees easier. Even immigration-averse countries like European ones work this way. Give us a general work visa that let's us work for N years instead of making us puppets of the company we are currently working for.
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    Isn't a H1B visa literally for a single job that's not able to be filled? It's not a work permit for working any specialist job, companies need to justify the need specifically
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      Can we stop pretending that's true? Like there are really jobs that are sooooo unique that NO Americans have the skills and only some foreign worker unicorns can fulfill them? H1Bs are just skilled worker visas, let's stop with the charade that they're anything else.

bzb5 6y ago

Staying in a foreign country is a privilege, not a right.

brutal_boi 6y ago
You are baiting too hard

la6471 6y ago

Yes and you cannot expect the Native American workers to sympathize with your plight. The focus is on productivity and the cost of labor and not on humans behind it. The Native American workers had faced it for decades via outsourcing and offshoring and now the pendulum is swinging back to the right again. The rules will be changed ,if needed , for US and it’s citizens to win the game.

jdxcode 6y ago
I feel it's odd that you capitalized the "N" in "native". I assume you're not talking about these people[0]. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Amer...

rahulpadalkar 6y ago

nice username.

ozim 6y ago

What one can expect from going to foreign country? People in mine (or yours) country will try to get as much as possible for free from others. If someone thinks that some country is composed only from good will and good people, it will be disappointing. There is price to pay for moving, it is not always obvious. I moved to another country and I earn more money than if I would not move, but opportunities that I left back in my country are somewhat biting me back after all those years.

war1025 6y ago

Work / study visas are (in my opinion anyway) a significant reason why the majority of post-graduate students are foreign. Working as a grad student is really a quite poor economic trade off unless you have the unspoken side benefit of qualifying for a visa. It's basically a form of academic wage suppression.

foobiekr 6y ago
Visas of many varieties are used for wage suppression. H1b, for example, is well studied to result in wage suppression.[1] [1] https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pdf https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pd...

addicted 6y ago

Other than the fact that Democrats have voted for bills solving this issue in both houses of Congress by vast majorities, and the last Democratic President took many executive actions (including the one you mention as well as others that were rolled back by Republicans) there is no evidence that Democrats really care.

YZF 6y ago

I had a job offer and TN status with a US company and I decided (last minute practically) not to move to the US for precisely this reason. That I'd have to leave the country on the same day I lost my job. Doing this with a family seemed too risky for me. I'm not sure what my parallel universe life in Seattle would have looked like but I've no regrets staying in Canada.

yibg 6y ago
FYI TN also has a 60 day grace period.
- YZF 6y ago
  This was prior to the 60 day grace period. I know there's a 60 day grace period these days.

devmunchies 6y ago

> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration Actually its business tycoons who want cheap, abundant labor. Getting the media to frame it as a social issue was genius.

nbaksalyar 6y ago

> Before that, you technically had to leave the country the day you were laid off Interestingly enough, there's a very similar system in place in the United Kingdom (Tier 2 General). Not only you have to leave within 60 days after being laid off, but there's also a "cooling-off period" of 1 year, which means that you can't get a new visa during this period and effectively it resets your time until permanent residence, so you have no option but to start over.

vsskanth 6y ago
UK doesn't have "at-will" employment like the USA. Their PR system is also time based, which means you don't have to live in uncertainty forever, unlike the H1B which is lifelong temporary immigrant for certain nationalities.

akiselev 6y ago

Even when you have a supportive (non-exploitative) employer it's an unbelievably precarious position (personal story time!). In order to renew an H1b visa [1], immigrants have to go to a US consulate, which do not exist within the borders of the United States so leaving the country is required. For the vast majority, this is a day trip to Canada or Mexico or a small vacation to visit family in their home country so it's not really an issue. However, sometimes, the consulate will pull shit like a "State Department Security Check" because the subjects worked in an institute that happens to have a research nuclear reactor - nevermind that it's one of the largest scientific institutes in the world or that their fields of expertise have nothing to do with nuclear. The immigrants, if they chose to go to Canada or Mexico (as most do due to cost), are likely at this point stuck for months as undocumented immigrants in their new host country - unable to work with existing mortgages/apartments/cars/obligations to pay for in their old life, hotels and living expenses to pay for in their new life, and barely a month worth of sick time and vacation. Bonus: most of the things they could do to mitigate the disaster could jeopardize their permanent residency application. As far as I know, these standoffs usually end when the employers sue over the renewal or dump the employee completely in which case their entire lives have to be packed up and moved but they can't enter the United States to do so. Bonus #2: if both parents are working, they likely have separate H1b visas that won't clear together - family separation time! As you can imagine, going through this series of events is devastating, especially for children who have zero insight or control into the process. Cruel is an understatement. Edit: [1] See comment below, this applies to applications going through consular processing, which is a crucial detail

kshacker 6y ago
In order to renew an H1b visa, immigrants have to go to a US consulate I think you may be confusing 2 things. H1 Validity and H1 Visa. You can extend your H1 from within US and most people do. No one is forced to go out and come back. However, to extend H1 Visa, what you say is true. The difference is that visa allows you to go out of US, and then come back in, and for you to come back in, you need a visa that is valid at the time of entry. However, if you wanted to stay in US without going out and keep on extending H1 (to the extent allowed by law), you can.

scarface74 6y ago

> American tech unions hating H1Bs What the heck is a “tech union”? Who are in one?

ecdavis 6y ago

> Never mind that you might have a house a family and might have been living here for more than a decade. I lived in the US on a temporary, non-immigrant visa similar to the H-1B for six years. Buying a house and starting a family while on such a visa always struck me as deeply irresponsible. I was reticent to even get a pet. The US immigration process sucks, but it's sucked for a long time, and the extent to which it's going to suck for you in particular is knowable ahead of time. Simply reading the language on the forms you fill out while applying for such a visa makes it clear how the US government regards you[0]. To ignore that and live your life as though you have permanent residency already is to carelessly put yourself (and your family, if you have one) in a risky situation. I have sympathy for people who find themselves in this position. Leaving the US as a single person with no significant assets was tough enough for me, I can't imagine what it's like for someone who's really put down roots there. That said, if you were living like a "temporary worker in a speciality occupation" you wouldn't have put down roots. [0] I know a lot of people listen to their employers pie-in-the-sky promises of Green Cards and how layoffs "never happen" and so forth. You're an adult, though. Understand your legal situation for yourself.

dudul 6y ago

A decade? Have the rules changed over the past 10 years? When I was on an H1B the rule was that the visa was valid 3 years and could be renewed only once for another 3. How would you buy a house on a H1B? No banks would issue a mortgage to a non-immigrant visa holder. Two things can be true at the same time. Starting a "resident life" while on a temporary, non-immigrant visa doesn't sound like a great plan; and yes, this visa is horrendous and should be deeply reformed.

pandaman 6y ago
There is a loophole in AC21: if you have an approved I-140 then you can extend H-1B indefinitely in 3 year increments. The trick is that I-140, once approved for 6 months, cannot become unapproved via a USCIS memo. So there are now hundreds of thousdand H-1Bs with permanent I-140s getting infintie H-1B terms.