6 ms·

I'm not trying to be some sort of Luddite, but at this stage what more can a phone really do. If it's 10% faster than chips that are already doing a fine job ri

by Guthur 6y ago

I'm not trying to be some sort of Luddite, but at this stage what more can a phone really do. If it's 10% faster than chips that are already doing a fine job right now it just feels flat. I really love new tech and especially microprocessors but have trouble seeing how a phone breaks out of it's limiting form factor in any meaningful way right now that would make use of yet more processing power.

simonh 6y ago
People have been saying that for 10 years. It makes calls, it’s got location, internet, a camera. Done right? Since then we’ve got on-device powered AI voice assistants, Face ID, neural engine powered photo enhancement, health monitoring, custom silicon enhanced environment mapping AR. Goodness knows what else is coming. The advent of custom tuned accelerators such as neural engines in silicon is opening up a huge new field of applications and capabilities. That’s especially true when they are linked to these new arrays of environment and bio-sensors. The X series iPhones are doing a list of things simply impossible on previous devices. You may not care about some or all of these things, that’s fine they’re not all for everyone, but each one of them is important to some people.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  But how much does any of that really matter? I really believe the future is in things like AI voice assistance, but IMHO stuff like that isn't really good enough yet to make a big difference. I think what Guthur may reflect upon is that we got tons of new phone models pushed into the market every single year that do very little new compared to previous models. So what if we get 50% more performance. Sounds impressive, but then you realize it is only used to create smiley animations, and other frivolous teenager nonsense. I don't think I have really seen a point in phone upgrades since iPhone 4 or so. That is about 9 years ago. Same deal with iPads, not much new anyone needs. There are a couple of things though which I do think has mattered. Retina display and the Apple pencil. But honestly the priorities are quite different from what I would want. I love my Apple products but I really wished they where a bit more modular or serviceable. By that I mean that e.g. replacing the battery should be much easier. Memory should have been easier to expand or replace.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    I still own an iPhone4S that I tried to use when there was an issue with the long-in-the-tooth (5 years old, 4 years newer than my 4S) but still perfectly supported 6S until it got fixed. It still runs iOS 6 which it came with (yes, that's a security risk I was willing to take for a couple of days). It's not just the apps that are missing, and the low resolution; I preferred its theme, and the smaller screen but it's just not fun to use anymore now that I've gotten used to the snappy everything, the dictation while driving, the better camera, etc. When I got the 6S, it was for app support - I didn't feel anything was missing - but I won't switch back to 4S even if it did get a security update. I'll likely get a new iphone when iOS 15 comes out and the 6S isn't supported; There's nothing I know I need it for, but I suspect I won't be satisfied with the 6S after I do have it. Re:ipads, though - my childern's 2013 ipad mini is essentially as good as their new one for all their uses, it's only missing software and security updated that prompted getting a new one.
    - porknubbins 6y ago
      6S felt like a quantum leap from every other phone before it and I’m still using one too. I can’t nail it down but there was something perfect about the size, speed, UI where using a phone stopped feeling like messing with a gadget and became pure information retrieval or communication. Trying every other iphone afterwards I have felt no need to upgrade.
  - thefounder 6y ago
    >> I don't think I have really seen a point in phone upgrades since iPhone 4 or so. The apps stop working/updating after a while. So if you don't have a reason Apple gives you one: planned obsolescence
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      Why is Apple guilty of planned obsolescence when they support their devices sometimes 3x (5-6 years vs 2) what their competition (Android) is doing?
- richliss 6y ago
  Agreed - it’s the innovation in application of the technology rather than pure speed that has made mobiles far more interesting than desktops and laptops. Photography is the big ticket with most buyers now - the “how can I make every photo of my baby look like it is taken by a professional to my friends and family when it’s me just tapping once?” I honestly think Apple could kill off all but professional photography and film with their own versions of photography kit such as Moment lenses, DJI Gimbals and associated AI correction tech to get rid of the shortcomings. Add in more powerful noise reduction in low light that their AI will soon enough bring and your phone camera is a better photographer than you will be without a great camera, training and practice. The last real innovation in Intel chips in laptops and desktops I can remember that had a significant impact was the accelerated encryption and that’s years ago. I’m honestly excited by Apple’s new chips going into laptops - Will we get webcam calls that have their image quality improved and background noise filtered by AI for example?
  - fomine3 6y ago
    I know that all vendor spending much resources for improving cameras and works well, but I don't care about cameras on smartphone, so I feel smartphones are not evolving well nowadays. I wish they found new frontier other than cameras.
- jbverschoor 6y ago
  Actually, you still need an internet connection for this "on-device powered AI voice assistants"
  - simonh 6y ago
    That is correct, the assistant needs to be able to retrieve data and assets it needs from back end services to be able to perform efficiently. So what?
msh 6y ago
Future proofing is one thing. If it's that fast today it will also handle things thrown at it years down the road.
TheRealSteel 6y ago
The number of cameras on phones will continue to grow, and soon they will fuse data from multiple sensors at a time to produce one image or video (and not just in portrait mode), like this camera from a few years ago: https://www.wired.com/2015/10/light-l16-camera/ https://www.wired.com/2015/10/light-l16-camera/ Processing all that data, especially in real time, will use an increasing amount of processing power. You'll have a DSLR level of quality and control, a depth map of every photo and video, much better post-shot refocussing, etc.
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  > and soon they will fuse data from multiple sensors at a time to produce one image The iPhone already does this, outside portrait mode. It’s called Deep Fusion and triggers on well lit photos shot using either the 1x or 2x lens (aka not on the 0.5x, super wide, lens).
samoa42 6y ago
'Race to Idle' effectively means greater energy efficiancy due to less time spent in full-power mode
fassssst 6y ago
It enables all the devs reading this to add 10% more crappy JavaScript to their sites :)
RantyDave 6y ago
Lidar is potentially a big deal, in that it does get an entirely new class of data into the phone. Quite what we need it for yet is TBD, of course.
iamgopal 6y ago
All type sensor, spectrometers, blood testers, AI related medical apps, 3D scanning, etc etc will need high performance platform much before actual application available.
yowlingcat 6y ago
If it doesn't go towards making it beefier, it will go towards making it smaller. Ambient computing (VR glasses or optical/cochlear implants) seems to be one logical terminal point. Just like the "PDA" has now become an outdated form factor, so too will the phone.
627467 6y ago
I read comments on the benefit of real world changers like new health sensors (or sensors of any type now already on phones) but the way I see, this additional processing power is being used mostly at: - "AI" photography. Trying to make pictures looking like it was taken by a non-mediocre camera
kushalpandya 6y ago
These advancements wouldn't matter to someone who just bought a device last year but like Bill Gates once said, it pays off in the long run. So for someone who is upgrading after a few years, they'll notice it, and they'll continue to notice it for next few years before they make another leap.
presentation 6y ago
I’d love to see iPhones get iPad-like high-frame rate screens - it’s really noticeably smoother! But that’s not a big thing to wish for lol.
mgraczyk 6y ago
Efficiency is also improving. I can use my phone longer without charging and keep the screen on longer than I could 2 years ago.
matwood 6y ago
For phones, I probably agree at this point. I'm very happy with my 11 pro max. It's fast, takes great pictures for its size, and I'm never waiting for it to do something. At this point more efficient chips could be used to improve battery life, but that does not always seem to be a goal. I'm sure Apple (and others) has some research somewhere that shows most people need X hours and that is their target. My 2018 iPad pro is sort of the same, but as I find myself using it for more and more things, I can see places where more speed would help. It's my goto device now for using LR and sorting and editing pics from my DSLR. It's already amazingly fast, but in cases like this more speed is still generally better.
threatofrain 6y ago
But Apple phones tend to remain snappy through the years as user demands and software evolves.
Zenbit_UX 6y ago
Consider that these more powerful phones may become servers for new wearable form factors that aren't possible to make with their own chips. Smart glasses come to mind, the phone can do all the image processing over a wireless signal. Another interesting possible future is the desktop replacement, dock your phone into a hub that exports video and USB signals to connect a keyboard mouse and screen and do away completely with laptops for user's whose computing needs are modest. Samsung does this already with DEX but it's too limited for me to view as more than a cool prototype but with Apple's app ecosystem this could be quite useful.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
Even from your perspective—which isn’t Luddism, it seems to be an assumption that a small handheld device with passive cooling is inherently underpowered and that larger form factors will always have a performance advantage—the thing that phones are able to do right now, at least in Apple properties, is improve the performance/power ratio so significantly that one of the largest technology brands is switching their entire large form factor lineup to the chips designed for their small handhelds. In other words... the thing phones can continue to do for general processing power is dictate efficiency by necessity, and make that efficiency generalizable if there’s an interest in that investment.

by Guthur 6y ago

simonh 6y ago

People have been saying that for 10 years. It makes calls, it’s got location, internet, a camera. Done right? Since then we’ve got on-device powered AI voice assistants, Face ID, neural engine powered photo enhancement, health monitoring, custom silicon enhanced environment mapping AR. Goodness knows what else is coming. The advent of custom tuned accelerators such as neural engines in silicon is opening up a huge new field of applications and capabilities. That’s especially true when they are linked to these new arrays of environment and bio-sensors. The X series iPhones are doing a list of things simply impossible on previous devices. You may not care about some or all of these things, that’s fine they’re not all for everyone, but each one of them is important to some people.

socialdemocrat 6y ago
But how much does any of that really matter? I really believe the future is in things like AI voice assistance, but IMHO stuff like that isn't really good enough yet to make a big difference. I think what Guthur may reflect upon is that we got tons of new phone models pushed into the market every single year that do very little new compared to previous models. So what if we get 50% more performance. Sounds impressive, but then you realize it is only used to create smiley animations, and other frivolous teenager nonsense. I don't think I have really seen a point in phone upgrades since iPhone 4 or so. That is about 9 years ago. Same deal with iPads, not much new anyone needs. There are a couple of things though which I do think has mattered. Retina display and the Apple pencil. But honestly the priorities are quite different from what I would want. I love my Apple products but I really wished they where a bit more modular or serviceable. By that I mean that e.g. replacing the battery should be much easier. Memory should have been easier to expand or replace.
- beagle3 6y ago
  I still own an iPhone4S that I tried to use when there was an issue with the long-in-the-tooth (5 years old, 4 years newer than my 4S) but still perfectly supported 6S until it got fixed. It still runs iOS 6 which it came with (yes, that's a security risk I was willing to take for a couple of days). It's not just the apps that are missing, and the low resolution; I preferred its theme, and the smaller screen but it's just not fun to use anymore now that I've gotten used to the snappy everything, the dictation while driving, the better camera, etc. When I got the 6S, it was for app support - I didn't feel anything was missing - but I won't switch back to 4S even if it did get a security update. I'll likely get a new iphone when iOS 15 comes out and the 6S isn't supported; There's nothing I know I need it for, but I suspect I won't be satisfied with the 6S after I do have it. Re:ipads, though - my childern's 2013 ipad mini is essentially as good as their new one for all their uses, it's only missing software and security updated that prompted getting a new one.
  - porknubbins 6y ago
    6S felt like a quantum leap from every other phone before it and I’m still using one too. I can’t nail it down but there was something perfect about the size, speed, UI where using a phone stopped feeling like messing with a gadget and became pure information retrieval or communication. Trying every other iphone afterwards I have felt no need to upgrade.
- thefounder 6y ago
  >> I don't think I have really seen a point in phone upgrades since iPhone 4 or so. The apps stop working/updating after a while. So if you don't have a reason Apple gives you one: planned obsolescence
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Why is Apple guilty of planned obsolescence when they support their devices sometimes 3x (5-6 years vs 2) what their competition (Android) is doing?
richliss 6y ago
Agreed - it’s the innovation in application of the technology rather than pure speed that has made mobiles far more interesting than desktops and laptops. Photography is the big ticket with most buyers now - the “how can I make every photo of my baby look like it is taken by a professional to my friends and family when it’s me just tapping once?” I honestly think Apple could kill off all but professional photography and film with their own versions of photography kit such as Moment lenses, DJI Gimbals and associated AI correction tech to get rid of the shortcomings. Add in more powerful noise reduction in low light that their AI will soon enough bring and your phone camera is a better photographer than you will be without a great camera, training and practice. The last real innovation in Intel chips in laptops and desktops I can remember that had a significant impact was the accelerated encryption and that’s years ago. I’m honestly excited by Apple’s new chips going into laptops - Will we get webcam calls that have their image quality improved and background noise filtered by AI for example?
- fomine3 6y ago
  I know that all vendor spending much resources for improving cameras and works well, but I don't care about cameras on smartphone, so I feel smartphones are not evolving well nowadays. I wish they found new frontier other than cameras.
jbverschoor 6y ago
Actually, you still need an internet connection for this "on-device powered AI voice assistants"
- simonh 6y ago
  That is correct, the assistant needs to be able to retrieve data and assets it needs from back end services to be able to perform efficiently. So what?

msh 6y ago

Future proofing is one thing. If it's that fast today it will also handle things thrown at it years down the road.

TheRealSteel 6y ago

The number of cameras on phones will continue to grow, and soon they will fuse data from multiple sensors at a time to produce one image or video (and not just in portrait mode), like this camera from a few years ago: https://www.wired.com/2015/10/light-l16-camera/ https://www.wired.com/2015/10/light-l16-camera/ Processing all that data, especially in real time, will use an increasing amount of processing power. You'll have a DSLR level of quality and control, a depth map of every photo and video, much better post-shot refocussing, etc.

jsjohnst 6y ago
> and soon they will fuse data from multiple sensors at a time to produce one image The iPhone already does this, outside portrait mode. It’s called Deep Fusion and triggers on well lit photos shot using either the 1x or 2x lens (aka not on the 0.5x, super wide, lens).

samoa42 6y ago

'Race to Idle' effectively means greater energy efficiancy due to less time spent in full-power mode

fassssst 6y ago

It enables all the devs reading this to add 10% more crappy JavaScript to their sites :)

RantyDave 6y ago

Lidar is potentially a big deal, in that it does get an entirely new class of data into the phone. Quite what we need it for yet is TBD, of course.

iamgopal 6y ago

All type sensor, spectrometers, blood testers, AI related medical apps, 3D scanning, etc etc will need high performance platform much before actual application available.

yowlingcat 6y ago

If it doesn't go towards making it beefier, it will go towards making it smaller. Ambient computing (VR glasses or optical/cochlear implants) seems to be one logical terminal point. Just like the "PDA" has now become an outdated form factor, so too will the phone.

627467 6y ago

I read comments on the benefit of real world changers like new health sensors (or sensors of any type now already on phones) but the way I see, this additional processing power is being used mostly at: - "AI" photography. Trying to make pictures looking like it was taken by a non-mediocre camera

kushalpandya 6y ago

These advancements wouldn't matter to someone who just bought a device last year but like Bill Gates once said, it pays off in the long run. So for someone who is upgrading after a few years, they'll notice it, and they'll continue to notice it for next few years before they make another leap.

presentation 6y ago

I’d love to see iPhones get iPad-like high-frame rate screens - it’s really noticeably smoother! But that’s not a big thing to wish for lol.

mgraczyk 6y ago

Efficiency is also improving. I can use my phone longer without charging and keep the screen on longer than I could 2 years ago.

matwood 6y ago

For phones, I probably agree at this point. I'm very happy with my 11 pro max. It's fast, takes great pictures for its size, and I'm never waiting for it to do something. At this point more efficient chips could be used to improve battery life, but that does not always seem to be a goal. I'm sure Apple (and others) has some research somewhere that shows most people need X hours and that is their target. My 2018 iPad pro is sort of the same, but as I find myself using it for more and more things, I can see places where more speed would help. It's my goto device now for using LR and sorting and editing pics from my DSLR. It's already amazingly fast, but in cases like this more speed is still generally better.

threatofrain 6y ago

But Apple phones tend to remain snappy through the years as user demands and software evolves.

Zenbit_UX 6y ago

Consider that these more powerful phones may become servers for new wearable form factors that aren't possible to make with their own chips. Smart glasses come to mind, the phone can do all the image processing over a wireless signal. Another interesting possible future is the desktop replacement, dock your phone into a hub that exports video and USB signals to connect a keyboard mouse and screen and do away completely with laptops for user's whose computing needs are modest. Samsung does this already with DEX but it's too limited for me to view as more than a cool prototype but with Apple's app ecosystem this could be quite useful.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

Even from your perspective—which isn’t Luddism, it seems to be an assumption that a small handheld device with passive cooling is inherently underpowered and that larger form factors will always have a performance advantage—the thing that phones are able to do right now, at least in Apple properties, is improve the performance/power ratio so significantly that one of the largest technology brands is switching their entire large form factor lineup to the chips designed for their small handhelds. In other words... the thing phones can continue to do for general processing power is dictate efficiency by necessity, and make that efficiency generalizable if there’s an interest in that investment.