8 ms·

This is unfortunate and unacceptable. Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. We have lost our minds: the ability to freely and dis

• xref 6y ago
  You’re conflating freedom of speech with freedom from consequences.
• dopamean 6y ago
  > Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. He has that. He's free to post whatever he wants on his website where many people will see it.
• opifex 6y ago
  Knowing his agreement with Spotify was entered into voluntarily, and based on the evidence now at hand, it seems Joe's commitment to free speech is something less than unconditional.
• rjtavares 6y ago
  I'm not convinced we're worse off than in previous decades. Granted, the type of views that are "offensive" changed and there were some clear power shifts (and from your statement I assume you're on the losing side of that shift), but having to conceal your views for fear of retribution was always a thing.
  • danielahn 6y ago
    Yes - and even from the government - consider McCarthyism or Hoover's FBI and the civil rights movement. This fear of saying the wrong thing seems to say a lot more about the expanding reach of both corporations and individuals (and for individuals, the growing scale of memetic behavior) rather than some change in attitude towards free speech.
  • xfitm3 6y ago
    We absolutely are. We're more divided than ever. I am on the losing side of the shift. I never had to conceal my views for fear of retribution before. I could be in an echo chamber, but I am not alone in this sentiment.
    • rjtavares 6y ago
      In the 90s some politicians tried to ban gangsta rap, and there was an official policy that "prohibited any homosexual or bisexual person from disclosing their sexual orientation or from speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States armed forces". I'm not trying to negate your experience. I'm just adding context about other people's experience in a recent past.
      • xfitm3 6y ago
        I'm not claiming the past was perfect. Some changes are absolutely positive. Here's my anecdote. I look back at films from the 80s and 90s where free speech was discussed or otherwise a component of the plot. It was unthinkable to censor thoughts, or allow the government to spy and collect data on the citizens. Both of these notions seem to have disappeared.
        • rjtavares 6y ago
          Government spying was unthinkable in the 80s? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12333 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12333
        • 1270018000 6y ago
          Private companies censoring isn't a new thing. Regardless, information is shared as such a rate now that comparing them to anecdotes from the 80s isn't even applicable. I'd have trouble believing a radio talk show host from the 80s would host self-proclaimed neo nazis like Joe Rogan has. If anything, speech is so free now that we see opinions that wouldn't have seen the light of day a few decades ago. Which is why content hosters are having to tackle the question of what they allow, and hopefully they make the right decision.
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • chmod775 6y ago
    Now I don't know what this was like previously, but nowadays one of the most common travel advice for vacations in the US is "Do not talk about politics with Americans. It's not a good topic for dinner conversation over there." Make of that what you will. Now what I've been wondering after hearing that advice multiple times is: What do Americans talk about at dinner and other occasions? Because here political issues is about half of a typical dinner conversation, the other half being recounting recent news and events. Even most of the jokes we make are political... I probably wouldn't know what to talk about.
    • rjtavares 6y ago
      If you're actually interested in the topic, google for a bit and you'll learn that is an old advice. Here's a post about it: https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/never_talk_about_religion_or_politics_etiquette_rule https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/nev...
    • pseudalopex 6y ago
      Many cultures frown on turning dinner time into debate time. It's been that way for generations. They talk about politics among family and friends or people with similar opinions.
    • vinay427 6y ago
      Where is this travel advice coming from? It sounds like typical cultural ignorance to me. I'm American and (when I lived there) would have no qualms talking about politics with seemingly everyone regardless of meal time. There are certainly some people who will have a stronger response these days due to increased polarization, but if you speak sensibly and thoughtfully it's difficult to see it becoming an issue.
      • leetcrew 6y ago
        I dunno, seems consistent with my experience in the midatlantic/northeast. politics is absolutely on the table with close friends and my family. outside of that, I find people usually avoid discussing politics unless they are confident everyone else present already agrees with them.
  • koonsolo 6y ago
    Nowadays you seem to get fired when telling a "dongle" joke privately to another colleague, but someone overheard it. Sorry, but that is absolutely crazy. I have a few fun colleagues that tell jokes all the time. If they get fired for this, I'm instantly quitting.
    • srtjstjsj 6y ago
      That mostly a tech "scene" thing, not outside the world of competitive performativity at non-academic tech conferences and Twitter.
    • rjtavares 6y ago
      Just searched for that story, and it is indeed unfortunate. I'll grant you that social media and current climate created a new phenomenon of "mob justice" for inappropriate opinions or comments, but in the opposite direction people are less afraid of management/ownership than they were before (the victims of which are sometimes today's mob). I'm genuinely interested to know what the net result is.
• sp332 6y ago
  I don't think offense is the issue. People are being fired, denied housing, and murdered for being trans for example. Joe Rogan called being transgender a "social contagion", which is going to cause people who respect and trust him to not want trans people around.
  • jlarocco 6y ago
    That's not really Joe Rogan's fault, though. If somebody's going to commit an act of violence based on a radio host's statements then they already have serious issues, and it's only a matter of time before something sets them off.
• snowwrestler 6y ago
  > This is unfortunate and unacceptable. Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. > We have lost our minds: the ability to freely and discuss literally any topic was an American staple. On Spotify specifically, though? I don’t remember a time in America when I was getting paid to post whatever I felt like saying into a microphone to Spotify.
• jjulius 6y ago
  >This is unfortunate and unacceptable. Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. I mean, Joe signed the contract and choosing what to exclude was more than likely discussed in negotiations, or even written into the contract. He opted to take this route.
• shajznnckfke 6y ago
  I don’t think that it’s ever been the case that a seller or broadcaster of media couldn’t choose what kind of content they want to distribute.
• exogeny 6y ago
  Let's say in your heart of hearts that you earnestly thought that, for whatever reason, women couldn't be effective software engineers. If you said that in public, you should be fired because it would immediately call into question your ability to work within your team, your ability to respect your co-workers, and potentially bring negatively adverse financial consequences to your place of work and damage its reputation. Now, I don't know what you actually believe, but it's worth noting that you currently have all the free speech you want and have always had. What you're arguing for is free speech AND no consequences, which isn't and was never guaranteed.
  • leetcrew 6y ago
    let's say you think capitalism is evil, destroys the environment and the essence of humanity, etc., and you say that in public. wouldn't that also call into question your ability to be an effective employee and work towards the interests of the company? wouldn't we all be very upset if someone got fired over that? I don't really disagree with your specific example (or that there have always been things that you can't really say in america), but in general it's a shitty way for the world to work. we should seek to change it.
• kelnos 6y ago
  > Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. He does: he can put up his own website and host his videos. No company is required to host and promote his content if they don't agree with it.
• reincarnate0x14 6y ago
  This was always the case, it's only that recently you feel it's been extended to your particular issues. At various times in the history of the US specifically, but analogues exist in most other places, you could have been fired or otherwise pariah'ed for: Freely discussing the conditions and rights of laborers Discussing political ideologies like communism Discussing various sects of Christian belief Discussing Non-Christian beliefs Being for or against political popular movements Being against police authority Discussing or demonstrating opposition to wars Simply being one of a set of ethnicities Being, or discussing, being gay Being, or discussing, being an atheist While I personally think that Joe Rogan's podcast, the conversations of a pedestrian comedian and self-professed moron who sometimes lands interesting guests, is a strange hill for Spotify to be fighting on, there was no time in US history that such "unfortunate and unacceptable" events weren't happening. McCarthyism and the blacklisting of many otherwise wealthy entertainers is usually the textbook case of this and that is within living memory. This sickness is rooted deeply in American culture, and we only think there was some reprieve due to the academic freedoms and immense prosperity of a post-WW2 boom era that ended 40 years ago, followed by a brief period of online semi-anonymous expression that lasted until around 2000 when the great masses finally found it and brought it back to the baseline awfulness of the rest of the culture
  • radmuzom 6y ago
    Funny that you and jakelazaroff above are getting downvoted. I have observed that lot of free speech advocates generally get annoyed if someone speaks the truth.
    • reincarnate0x14 6y ago
      What's funnier is that I'm not even strictly in disagreement with the notion that free expression is important, although I do deeply resent disingenuous attempts to shield an argument with a persecution complex.
    • spiralx 6y ago
      This site has both a lot of the sort of people who "don't see race" and use that to downplay social issues, and people who (irrationally) insist in the primacy of rational thought and view speech as a consequence-free action. Don't expect good or nuanced discussion on the subject.
• loopback_device 6y ago
  > We have lost our minds: the ability to freely and discuss literally any topic was an American staple. Sex, breasts, swearwords? As far as I can remember the American staple was and is to bleep every fucking thing that could potentially be connected to a nipple.
  • 4ggr0 6y ago
    Exactly. It's weird to watch US talk shows as a european.
    • Aerroon 6y ago
      I don't know about the rest, but I think bleeping swearwords is partly an editing decision. It makes swearing seem more effective (powerful?) to me. It's a at to emphasize swearing.
  • rjkennedy98 6y ago
    Bleeping swearwords and sex is about keeping things innocent and appropriate for children. Has nothing to do with censorship. No ideas are discussed when a breast is blacked out.
    • kick 6y ago
      Censoring words and topics is literally the textbook definition of censorship; are you trying to be dense?
• UncleMeat 6y ago
  > Joe should have a free and censorship free place to discuss topics. He does. Nobody forced him to choose a contract with Spotify.