14 ms·

I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem. In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she s

by ctas 6y ago

I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem. In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she successfully evaded the punishment. Not long ago there's been a claim that her phone contains important evidence in support of the accusation, but it turned out that data on the phone had been "accidentally" wiped.

KingOfCoders 6y ago
"In Germany she's well known for nepotism" As a German this is not "well known" to me, do you have a source? Until now I thought one Accenture manager was the godfather of a child of a deparment manager in the ministry of defence and Accenture got an consulting gig? I didn't know until now she was giving jobs to her relatives.
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  I still have a “Zensursula” T-Shirt from when she wanted to introduce Internet censorship because “think of the children”.
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    "Lots of"? Perhaps for coders ;-) 0,1,lotsof
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  One of her kids works for one of the big consulting companies she loved to hire. But more importantly, the people working for her on the government side were often super close to the consultants they hired. As the minister, she takes responsibility for what is going on in her ministry - and that was full of friends giving contracts to friends.
  - lippel82 6y ago
    To be fair, her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. She has seven well educated children, they have to work somewhere...
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      It's called networking.
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    Thanks.
- woodpanel 6y ago
  Being a consultant in Germany myself I can tell you that during the whole "Bundeswehr Berateraffäre" (an alledged scandal involving contracts given to consultancies when von der Leyen was Secretary of Defense), that at least all Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies in Germany cringed in silence, as the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year. One scrum team will easily go for 1.5-2M per year just for the non-managerial developer staff. It was a classic non-scandal, with zero convictions or indictments in the end, in stark contrast to the attention it got in the media. Not surprising considering how German journalists tend to dislike conservatives in general and how my countrymen on average lack basic financial education. Disclaimer: I never voted conservative (CDU) and never will, but as much as I don't like von der Leyen "she's well known for nepotism" is just unfair and untrue.
  - codethief 6y ago
    > the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year Are you saying that Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies regularly spend > 1B on consulting?
    - johndrocky 6y ago
      He might be referring to Germanys beacons of good corporate governance and not corruption; Deutschebank and Wirecard Either way using relativism to minimise a crime is sophistry "I murdered a few people - the US government kills thousands of people a year in <current war>" - you're still guilty of murder, even if someone is better at the crime than you are.
      - woodpanel 6y ago
        still guilty of murder - so much for subtlety… Again: Although there were a parliamentary investigations, there was no crime. No conviction, no indictment, no charges pressed. 300M € was what was spent on all external consultancies combined. The yearly Bundeswehr budget is 42 bln € [1]. 300M is < 1%. In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone. And that is just the auditor segment. This doesn't include the strategic consultancies, IT consultancies or Headhunters. And it also doesn't include the consultancy subsidiaries of said DAX companies. Speaking of subsidiary consultancies: 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI. This whole "Affair" just resides on general public resentment of the word "consultant" and the public's inability and unwillingness to calculate or research these numbers themself. Especially as soon as there is a "smoking gun" to find by focusing all efforts on looking the other way, which allows us to create a hoax like this. [1] German: "Milliarde"
- xnyan 6y ago
  Even as an undergraduate polisci major, in my European Union courses she was discussed. Here is an interesting anecdote about her: the institution that granted her equivalent of an MD (she’s still a physician) acknowledged that more than 40% of her thesis was plagiarized, however because telepathic analysis does not exist and this it is not possible prove that she intended in her mind to cheat as she was engaged in the act of cheating, her degree was not revoked. Sources in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sft...
  - dependsontheq 6y ago
    While I understand the discussion, in general Medical doctorates in Germany do not have the same standards as other PHDs. “Mouse dying after not being fed for a month” could actually be a real title, the problem for German doctors is that they more or less have to have the title.
    - xnyan 6y ago
      If I recall, there's something like 3 "tiers" of physician depending on how long you were in school? It's interesting. But anyway, I think the point is still a fair one. Major portions of her thesis were plagiarized. Even if it was an accident (I don't see how that would be possible), the least thesis should be revoked or all students should be allowed to plagiarize their theses as well. Being part of a rich and powerful family does not make one bad, using that power to cheat and exploit sure does.
_Microft 6y ago
I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.
- orbifold 6y ago
  She did a bunch of pretty corrupt stuff while defense minister. She pushed for internet censorship.
  - addicted 6y ago
    I strongly disagree with internet censorship, but how is that "corrupt"? Pushing for something that may be objectively terrible and is agreed by everybody is objectively terrible, may be terrible, but it is still not corrupt. Words have meanings, and for that to be corrupt it would also require that the person pushing for it was doing so not because they believed it was the right thing to do, but because they were doing it for nefarious reasons such as having been bribed, or only because it would personally enrich themselves.
- joes_hk 6y ago
  Maybe you have heard of the "Berateraffären". It's almost funny how they pulled it off without getting into legal trouble.
  - _Microft 6y ago
    OK, thanks. I had heard about her wiped mobilphone before but didn't know what the issue was about. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-Aff%C3%A4re_in_der_Bundeswehr https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-A...
- Roritharr 6y ago
  Never heard the term "Berater-Affäre"?
  - usr1106 6y ago

by ctas 6y ago

KingOfCoders 6y ago

"In Germany she's well known for nepotism" As a German this is not "well known" to me, do you have a source? Until now I thought one Accenture manager was the godfather of a child of a deparment manager in the ministry of defence and Accenture got an consulting gig? I didn't know until now she was giving jobs to her relatives.

pantalaimon 6y ago
I still have a “Zensursula” T-Shirt from when she wanted to introduce Internet censorship because “think of the children”.
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  "Lots of"? Perhaps for coders ;-) 0,1,lotsof
turbinerneiter 6y ago
One of her kids works for one of the big consulting companies she loved to hire. But more importantly, the people working for her on the government side were often super close to the consultants they hired. As the minister, she takes responsibility for what is going on in her ministry - and that was full of friends giving contracts to friends.
- lippel82 6y ago
  To be fair, her son worked in the silicon valley office in a very junior position at the time. That's very far removed from the German public sector consulting. She has seven well educated children, they have to work somewhere...
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    It's called networking.
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  Thanks.
woodpanel 6y ago
Being a consultant in Germany myself I can tell you that during the whole "Bundeswehr Berateraffäre" (an alledged scandal involving contracts given to consultancies when von der Leyen was Secretary of Defense), that at least all Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies in Germany cringed in silence, as the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year. One scrum team will easily go for 1.5-2M per year just for the non-managerial developer staff. It was a classic non-scandal, with zero convictions or indictments in the end, in stark contrast to the attention it got in the media. Not surprising considering how German journalists tend to dislike conservatives in general and how my countrymen on average lack basic financial education. Disclaimer: I never voted conservative (CDU) and never will, but as much as I don't like von der Leyen "she's well known for nepotism" is just unfair and untrue.
- codethief 6y ago
  > the 300M € von der Leyen supposedly embazzled look pathetic to the budgets these companies dump on consultants each year Are you saying that Blue Chip to Mid Cap Stock Index companies regularly spend > 1B on consulting?
  - johndrocky 6y ago
    He might be referring to Germanys beacons of good corporate governance and not corruption; Deutschebank and Wirecard Either way using relativism to minimise a crime is sophistry "I murdered a few people - the US government kills thousands of people a year in <current war>" - you're still guilty of murder, even if someone is better at the crime than you are.
    - woodpanel 6y ago
      still guilty of murder - so much for subtlety… Again: Although there were a parliamentary investigations, there was no crime. No conviction, no indictment, no charges pressed. 300M € was what was spent on all external consultancies combined. The yearly Bundeswehr budget is 42 bln € [1]. 300M is < 1%. In 2018, the big four (KPMG, PwC, EY and Deloitte) extracted 650M € from the 30 DAX companies alone. And that is just the auditor segment. This doesn't include the strategic consultancies, IT consultancies or Headhunters. And it also doesn't include the consultancy subsidiaries of said DAX companies. Speaking of subsidiary consultancies: 2/3 of said 300M € "embazzled Bundeswehr money" were spent on it's own consultancy BDI. This whole "Affair" just resides on general public resentment of the word "consultant" and the public's inability and unwillingness to calculate or research these numbers themself. Especially as soon as there is a "smoking gun" to find by focusing all efforts on looking the other way, which allows us to create a hoax like this. [1] German: "Milliarde"
xnyan 6y ago
Even as an undergraduate polisci major, in my European Union courses she was discussed. Here is an interesting anecdote about her: the institution that granted her equivalent of an MD (she’s still a physician) acknowledged that more than 40% of her thesis was plagiarized, however because telepathic analysis does not exist and this it is not possible prove that she intended in her mind to cheat as she was engaged in the act of cheating, her degree was not revoked. Sources in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen?wprov=sft...
- dependsontheq 6y ago
  While I understand the discussion, in general Medical doctorates in Germany do not have the same standards as other PHDs. “Mouse dying after not being fed for a month” could actually be a real title, the problem for German doctors is that they more or less have to have the title.
  - xnyan 6y ago
    If I recall, there's something like 3 "tiers" of physician depending on how long you were in school? It's interesting. But anyway, I think the point is still a fair one. Major portions of her thesis were plagiarized. Even if it was an accident (I don't see how that would be possible), the least thesis should be revoked or all students should be allowed to plagiarize their theses as well. Being part of a rich and powerful family does not make one bad, using that power to cheat and exploit sure does.

_Microft 6y ago

I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.

orbifold 6y ago
She did a bunch of pretty corrupt stuff while defense minister. She pushed for internet censorship.
- addicted 6y ago
  I strongly disagree with internet censorship, but how is that "corrupt"? Pushing for something that may be objectively terrible and is agreed by everybody is objectively terrible, may be terrible, but it is still not corrupt. Words have meanings, and for that to be corrupt it would also require that the person pushing for it was doing so not because they believed it was the right thing to do, but because they were doing it for nefarious reasons such as having been bribed, or only because it would personally enrich themselves.
joes_hk 6y ago
Maybe you have heard of the "Berateraffären". It's almost funny how they pulled it off without getting into legal trouble.
- _Microft 6y ago
  OK, thanks. I had heard about her wiped mobilphone before but didn't know what the issue was about. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-Aff%C3%A4re_in_der_Bundeswehr https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen#Berater-A...
Roritharr 6y ago
Never heard the term "Berater-Affäre"?
- usr1106 6y ago