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Correct. It was from being very frugal in _all_ areas of the budget. Eating out, entertainment, internet, not taking vacations that wouldn't be financially resp

Correct. It was from being very frugal in _all_ areas of the budget. Eating out, entertainment, internet, not taking vacations that wouldn't be financially responsible. Frugal dates, frugal Christmas/holiday celebrations, living in an extremely inexpensive apartment in a not-wonderful area of town. We were pretty late adopters of smart phones because we had cheap flip phones. We gave to charity too. It's all about priorities, and having a vision for being financially "free". The victim mentality is an _enemy_ of human creativity. You can say, "this area is too expensive; we need to find a way to move somewhere else". You can say, "I need to sell this gas guzzler and get a cheap, used commuter car." These things aren't _fun_. But they set you up for success.

_qulr 6y ago
The crucial data point is missing: "two very small incomes". US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. 2 people working full-time at minimum wage would bring in a household income of $30k per year. But you couldn't possibly pay off $60k in debt and buy a house with that. So your household income had to be much, much higher. One cannot save oneself into a higher income.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  presumably GP and their wife did not go on to both earn minimum wage after getting their degree(s?). even today when a bachelor's degree is worth less than it once was, the median wage for college graduates at their first job is around $48k. only about 2% of people with any amount of college education actually make minimum wage. it's pretty rough living on minimum wage, but paying off student debt is very rarely a contributing factor.
  - PaulStatezny 6y ago
    You're right. It was about [REDACTED FOR PRIVACY - but much much less than parent's 48k medium income per person for college grads] before taxes, both with college degrees. I'm sorry lapcatsoftware if it sounded like I was making light of poverty. Poverty is terrible. But at least in the US, there is _so much_ opportunity to not be stuck on a minimum wage salary. Resigning to the idea that, "Well, I guess I just have to work for minimum wage" is not going to help and it doesn't have to be true. It's sad to think that people give up mentally when there's so much they can do to help themselves.
    - vertbhrtn 6y ago
      What opportunities? Tell me how an average cashier can land an average 150k/year job in a metro area? Don't forget that the said cashier has mediocre intelligence, so-so appearance, zero charisma and little talking skills. He might swap grocery store for an oil change shop, but that's about it. Our society is mostly stratified now, with a little upward mobility left for high-tech workers.
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        > mediocre intelligence, so-so appearance, zero charisma and little talking skills That person is never going to move up the economic ladder no matter what rung they start on or what decade they are born in.
        imtringued 6y ago
        Yes, and you're part of the reason. Pessimism fuels itself.
        Pokepokalypse 6y ago
        That person STILL deserves a modicum of dignity and stability. Most people in this category don't really care if they move up any ladder - they just want to exist and not be facing constant economic crisis and near-homelessness.
    - mattcaldwell 6y ago
      SOMEBODY has to do that minimum wage job though, no? So even if we're looking at the median, there are tons of people who aren't being counted.
lordnacho 6y ago
How are you ever going to be financially free from eating out less often? A meal at a restaurant costs what, $100? That's $5K a year. No holiday, another $5K maybe? Cheaper phone, ok, you don't buy the newest iPhone, so maybe you save most of a grand in relation to iPhone couples. Even the car cost is not as big as the sticker price, because it has residual value. Granted it may be a big figure, but it is also spread over several years. Seems to me you're literally one raise ($10K or so, and there's two of you?) away from making up such deficits, and you want to be near opportunity for that to happen.
- prewett 6y ago
  Investing $10k a year at 6% (average stock market returns are 6-8%) gives you $368k after 20 years (net increase of $297k over inflation at 2%). Even if you just saved it for ten years that's $100k. Neither are enough to retire on, but it gives you a lot more options. Even if housing increases faster than the stock market, that $10k is $800/month which could be going towards a mortgage (in addition to the rent they are already paying).
  - lordnacho 6y ago
    > $368k after 20 years Work another year or two, and you're doing just as well.

_qulr 6y ago

The crucial data point is missing: "two very small incomes". US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. 2 people working full-time at minimum wage would bring in a household income of $30k per year. But you couldn't possibly pay off $60k in debt and buy a house with that. So your household income had to be much, much higher. One cannot save oneself into a higher income.

leetcrew 6y ago
presumably GP and their wife did not go on to both earn minimum wage after getting their degree(s?). even today when a bachelor's degree is worth less than it once was, the median wage for college graduates at their first job is around $48k. only about 2% of people with any amount of college education actually make minimum wage. it's pretty rough living on minimum wage, but paying off student debt is very rarely a contributing factor.
- PaulStatezny 6y ago
  You're right. It was about [REDACTED FOR PRIVACY - but much much less than parent's 48k medium income per person for college grads] before taxes, both with college degrees. I'm sorry lapcatsoftware if it sounded like I was making light of poverty. Poverty is terrible. But at least in the US, there is _so much_ opportunity to not be stuck on a minimum wage salary. Resigning to the idea that, "Well, I guess I just have to work for minimum wage" is not going to help and it doesn't have to be true. It's sad to think that people give up mentally when there's so much they can do to help themselves.
  - vertbhrtn 6y ago
    What opportunities? Tell me how an average cashier can land an average 150k/year job in a metro area? Don't forget that the said cashier has mediocre intelligence, so-so appearance, zero charisma and little talking skills. He might swap grocery store for an oil change shop, but that's about it. Our society is mostly stratified now, with a little upward mobility left for high-tech workers.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      > mediocre intelligence, so-so appearance, zero charisma and little talking skills That person is never going to move up the economic ladder no matter what rung they start on or what decade they are born in.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        Yes, and you're part of the reason. Pessimism fuels itself.
      - Pokepokalypse 6y ago
        That person STILL deserves a modicum of dignity and stability. Most people in this category don't really care if they move up any ladder - they just want to exist and not be facing constant economic crisis and near-homelessness.
  - mattcaldwell 6y ago
    SOMEBODY has to do that minimum wage job though, no? So even if we're looking at the median, there are tons of people who aren't being counted.

lordnacho 6y ago

How are you ever going to be financially free from eating out less often? A meal at a restaurant costs what, $100? That's $5K a year. No holiday, another $5K maybe? Cheaper phone, ok, you don't buy the newest iPhone, so maybe you save most of a grand in relation to iPhone couples. Even the car cost is not as big as the sticker price, because it has residual value. Granted it may be a big figure, but it is also spread over several years. Seems to me you're literally one raise ($10K or so, and there's two of you?) away from making up such deficits, and you want to be near opportunity for that to happen.

prewett 6y ago
Investing $10k a year at 6% (average stock market returns are 6-8%) gives you $368k after 20 years (net increase of $297k over inflation at 2%). Even if you just saved it for ten years that's $100k. Neither are enough to retire on, but it gives you a lot more options. Even if housing increases faster than the stock market, that $10k is $800/month which could be going towards a mortgage (in addition to the rent they are already paying).
- lordnacho 6y ago
  > $368k after 20 years Work another year or two, and you're doing just as well.