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People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

Loic 6y ago
This is the drop in the oceans. If people start to buy low single use plastic intensity products, the producers will start to reduce and it starts the pump for changes. Usually just buying less helps a lot.
- ARandumGuy 6y ago
  I feel like you have it backwards here. Consumers aren't the ones deciding how much plastic is in what. For example, I didn't decide that my new pair of scissors should come in large, impossible to open blister packaging. I didn't decide that my grocery store should only sell milk in large plastic jugs. And that's just going by the packaging I can see. Who knows how much disposable packaging is used throughout the production process. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to reduce the amount of plastic you use. But the end consumer wasn't responsible for the huge rise of plastic products, and there's only so much they can do to fix it.
dahart 6y ago
Not buying plastic is a better solution. But is that realistic for you right now? If everyone thinks the same thing you do, and gives up without trying, then we never start solving the massive problem. Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. I do think you raise a great point that it's a little silly to put this on the shoulders of individual consumers, and let the corporations off the hook. This is a problem that does need to be addressed with policy, and companies shouldn't be allowed to continue polluting this planet with no consequences. I don't know how what the solution should look like, but this is a specific example of where free markets can fail us - the costs of producing all this unnecessary packaging was externalized starting 60 years ago, and is now starting to catch up with us. Because the delay between market forces and outcomes can be a century, we need to be more careful about just letting things run wild.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. Or you give people an excuse to consume more because now they can feel good about their consumption. Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown. Reducing consumption is the only solution, and recycling was the excuse sold to the public to keep the consumption music going.
  - dahart 6y ago
    Well, this is a good point, plastic recycling isn't working well at all, and this article demonstrates what you're saying. I would say that paper recycling has been working, it's plastic recycling that isn't currently working. I would also say that it's not that plastic recycling can't work, it's just that it hasn't been working. I am curious why it's not working. Would mandatory recycling help? Is it the recycling services cheating, taking money to recycle but throwing it away instead? Is the issue public mistrust of municipal water? I do suspect there are ways to make a much bigger dent than we have by better understanding what's happening. Anyway, all that said, I tend to agree with you that recycling is being used ironically as a way to continue consumption and avoid responsibility rather than start the real work of reducing plastic production. Yeah I don't know. I'm a little torn, I don't want to give up all hope on plastic recycling, but I think you're right, we probably need amputation more than stitches.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      >I am curious why it's not working Problem number one is expecting people to put forth the time and effort into sorting all of their recyclables. The whole situation is so complicated and rules so difficult to enforce, I don't see how it can be considered a feasible solution. The vastly easier, far more high impact solution is to reduce consumption.
      - dahart 6y ago
        Is sorting really the biggest problem? Are there studies that back this up? (Asking honestly; I'd love to read them if they exist). Some countries not named the United States are pretty good counter-examples, where the public is generally very good about sorting. I've personally watched people ignore recycling signs on purpose, or get flustered by multiple bins because they've never seen more than one, but ultimately I just don't buy the argument that this takes extra time or effort, I'm convinced that is a mental block or resistance to change and not a real physical problem. It's like saying I can't be bothered to figure out where my dirty dishes go, and I can't understand the difference between the trash bin and dishwasher and cupboards, so I'm going to throw everything away. My neighbors are perfectly fine with putting yard waste in a separate bin, zero people screw that up. If sorting is the biggest impediment to recycling, then I think that we have hope of fixing recycling and maybe reducing consumption at the same time. Sorting is the easiest problem to fix of all. It'll be easier to get people to understand sorting than it will be to get people to understand that municipal water is cleaner, cheaper and easier than their favorite bottled water brand. I'm with you about reducing consumption being the best option. I'm not sure about easy, but no question it'll be the highest impact.
Mvhsz 6y ago
Don't let plastic recycling get you down, recycling aluminum is a great way to help the environment. Paper and cardboard are also good. Glass is just ok. Reduce your consumption where possible, and make sure that non-recycleable materials make it to a landfill where the environmental impacts are contained. Our individual efforts have a small impact, but it's a small effort and it does matter. While there are some uses for recycled plastics, I fear that we'll likely continue to see a lot of single-use plastics until some economic force makes plastic unprofitable. Maybe public anger drives new regulation, maybe we use up all the oil, maybe we ween off of oil and it's too expensive to pump oil just to make plastics. In any case, I think we need to embrace some short and medium term solutions to mitigate environmental damage from single-use plastic.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  Maybe if there was a simple setup to convert recyclable plastic into 3D-printing filament?
njarboe 6y ago
What is the difference you are trying to make? If it is the depletion of resources and/or polluting to world, recycling is much, much less important than reducing consumption. One less airline trip per year, one less weekend road trip. Do you eat out? The amount of hidden waste in restaurant meals would amaze most people. Reduce the amount of meat you eat. Stay healthy so that you don't use the medical system. Your instinct is right that recycling does not help much. It is more of a ritual to allow people to consume guilt free than an effective way toward a less polluted world.
lopmotr 6y ago
How can the problem seem too massive to you but invisible to me? Could to explain the problem and quantify why you believe it's a massive problem?

Loic 6y ago

This is the drop in the oceans. If people start to buy low single use plastic intensity products, the producers will start to reduce and it starts the pump for changes. Usually just buying less helps a lot.

ARandumGuy 6y ago
I feel like you have it backwards here. Consumers aren't the ones deciding how much plastic is in what. For example, I didn't decide that my new pair of scissors should come in large, impossible to open blister packaging. I didn't decide that my grocery store should only sell milk in large plastic jugs. And that's just going by the packaging I can see. Who knows how much disposable packaging is used throughout the production process. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to reduce the amount of plastic you use. But the end consumer wasn't responsible for the huge rise of plastic products, and there's only so much they can do to fix it.

dahart 6y ago

Not buying plastic is a better solution. But is that realistic for you right now? If everyone thinks the same thing you do, and gives up without trying, then we never start solving the massive problem. Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. I do think you raise a great point that it's a little silly to put this on the shoulders of individual consumers, and let the corporations off the hook. This is a problem that does need to be addressed with policy, and companies shouldn't be allowed to continue polluting this planet with no consequences. I don't know how what the solution should look like, but this is a specific example of where free markets can fail us - the costs of producing all this unnecessary packaging was externalized starting 60 years ago, and is now starting to catch up with us. Because the delay between market forces and outcomes can be a century, we need to be more careful about just letting things run wild.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
>Instead if everyone recycles, then we begin the process of keeping the problem from growing even larger than it already is. Or you give people an excuse to consume more because now they can feel good about their consumption. Recycling does not solve any problems, as the revelations of the past decade have shown. Reducing consumption is the only solution, and recycling was the excuse sold to the public to keep the consumption music going.
- dahart 6y ago
  Well, this is a good point, plastic recycling isn't working well at all, and this article demonstrates what you're saying. I would say that paper recycling has been working, it's plastic recycling that isn't currently working. I would also say that it's not that plastic recycling can't work, it's just that it hasn't been working. I am curious why it's not working. Would mandatory recycling help? Is it the recycling services cheating, taking money to recycle but throwing it away instead? Is the issue public mistrust of municipal water? I do suspect there are ways to make a much bigger dent than we have by better understanding what's happening. Anyway, all that said, I tend to agree with you that recycling is being used ironically as a way to continue consumption and avoid responsibility rather than start the real work of reducing plastic production. Yeah I don't know. I'm a little torn, I don't want to give up all hope on plastic recycling, but I think you're right, we probably need amputation more than stitches.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >I am curious why it's not working Problem number one is expecting people to put forth the time and effort into sorting all of their recyclables. The whole situation is so complicated and rules so difficult to enforce, I don't see how it can be considered a feasible solution. The vastly easier, far more high impact solution is to reduce consumption.
    - dahart 6y ago
      Is sorting really the biggest problem? Are there studies that back this up? (Asking honestly; I'd love to read them if they exist). Some countries not named the United States are pretty good counter-examples, where the public is generally very good about sorting. I've personally watched people ignore recycling signs on purpose, or get flustered by multiple bins because they've never seen more than one, but ultimately I just don't buy the argument that this takes extra time or effort, I'm convinced that is a mental block or resistance to change and not a real physical problem. It's like saying I can't be bothered to figure out where my dirty dishes go, and I can't understand the difference between the trash bin and dishwasher and cupboards, so I'm going to throw everything away. My neighbors are perfectly fine with putting yard waste in a separate bin, zero people screw that up. If sorting is the biggest impediment to recycling, then I think that we have hope of fixing recycling and maybe reducing consumption at the same time. Sorting is the easiest problem to fix of all. It'll be easier to get people to understand sorting than it will be to get people to understand that municipal water is cleaner, cheaper and easier than their favorite bottled water brand. I'm with you about reducing consumption being the best option. I'm not sure about easy, but no question it'll be the highest impact.

Mvhsz 6y ago

Don't let plastic recycling get you down, recycling aluminum is a great way to help the environment. Paper and cardboard are also good. Glass is just ok. Reduce your consumption where possible, and make sure that non-recycleable materials make it to a landfill where the environmental impacts are contained. Our individual efforts have a small impact, but it's a small effort and it does matter. While there are some uses for recycled plastics, I fear that we'll likely continue to see a lot of single-use plastics until some economic force makes plastic unprofitable. Maybe public anger drives new regulation, maybe we use up all the oil, maybe we ween off of oil and it's too expensive to pump oil just to make plastics. In any case, I think we need to embrace some short and medium term solutions to mitigate environmental damage from single-use plastic.

phobosanomaly 6y ago
Maybe if there was a simple setup to convert recyclable plastic into 3D-printing filament?

njarboe 6y ago

What is the difference you are trying to make? If it is the depletion of resources and/or polluting to world, recycling is much, much less important than reducing consumption. One less airline trip per year, one less weekend road trip. Do you eat out? The amount of hidden waste in restaurant meals would amaze most people. Reduce the amount of meat you eat. Stay healthy so that you don't use the medical system. Your instinct is right that recycling does not help much. It is more of a ritual to allow people to consume guilt free than an effective way toward a less polluted world.

lopmotr 6y ago

How can the problem seem too massive to you but invisible to me? Could to explain the problem and quantify why you believe it's a massive problem?