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I’ve never been poor. But I wasn’t exactly middle class. My parents were immigrants. Poverty is terrible, and I agree it should be dealt with. But how has this

I’ve never been poor. But I wasn’t exactly middle class. My parents were immigrants. Poverty is terrible, and I agree it should be dealt with. But how has this law helped? Uber and Lyft are more than willing to leave all of California rather than stay and deal with the regulation. They’ve made that clear. It’s more economical for them for halt business in California rather than adhere to the regulations. That’s a rather poor incentive set for on behalf of the California regulators. Regulations don’t exist in a vacuum.

viraptor 6y ago
> Uber and Lyft are more than willing to leave all of California rather than stay and deal with the regulation. Ok. And why is that bad? The office work / engineers will stay. If there's need for transport, the drivers will work for transport in other ways. If nobody wants to pay for better conditions of drivers, then we just exposed the VC funding as unsustainable in a long run - it would happen sooner or later.
- Hnaomyiph 6y ago
  >if there is a need for transport, the drivers will work for transport in other ways This is incredibly unlikely in any imaginable way.
- usaar333 6y ago
  Why are the drivers driving for Uber and not say being Instacart shoppers where they can be employees?
- ChrisLomont 6y ago
  Wage floors push the most vulnerable out of the workforce. Is that bad?
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    If somebody is vulnerable, I'd say it seems like a very bad thing to make them work by threatening them with homelessness and poverty, enforced by men with guns. So no, I don't think it is.
    - unishark 6y ago
      If most people want to help them, as apparently most people do (these laws need to get passed in a democracy, after all), why does that help need to be enforced by men with guns?
  - viraptor 6y ago
    This would be the immediate effect today. An alternative description is "VC money supports the axe hanging over unprofitable uber jobs". The question is - does uber need to find a solution to this problem today or in X months? This is going to happen one way or another.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Uber is profitable in many markets and was approaching broad profitability this year before Covid.
  - whiddershins 6y ago
    Yes. A sense of self determination is important to human functioning.
- r29vzg2 6y ago
  Why stop at Uber drivers? Why don’t the California regulators just regulate away all jobs that don’t pay a livable wage? Why don’t the California regulators just raise the minimum wage to $90k a year? Like I mentioned in the post above, regulations don’t exist in a vacuum, just because you say something should be a certain way doesn’t mean it will be. There are costs, and Uber and Lyft have determined that it’s not economically feasible for them keep operating in California under those regulations. If we’re ok with California regulators dictating what jobs should exist regardless of what the market can support, then this is the result.
  - Talanes 6y ago
    "Why don’t the California regulators just regulate away all jobs that don’t pay a livable wage?" I'm down.
    - um_ya 6y ago
      All the people fleeing California disagree with you
      - ikiris 6y ago
        This is not why we're fleeing.
        winkeltripel 6y ago
        Is it cause you want to own a home one day? Or at least stop paying more rent each month than a mortgage in other states?
    - ikiris 6y ago
      "FINE< WHY NOT GO EVEN FURTHER AND REALLY HELP THE POOR?!?! IM SURE YOU'LL BE SORRY THEN!" I never really understand some arguments with people who think most regulation is bad and not voted in blood.
      - 6y ago
- aetherson 6y ago
  It's by no means clear that drivers for Uber/Lyft will have viable prospects in this scenario. These jobs did not exist pre-ride-sharing companies. It's not like all these drivers were driving cabs before.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    The need for transport will not go away. The moment uber and Lyft leave, other companies will come in. There may not be 1:1 replacement of the drivers, but a lot can jump ship. Others? It will suck when it happens, but hopefully they can find other jobs. There's going to be quite a few office jobs for people with cab experience at companies trying to take over the market though.
    - syshum 6y ago
      LOL, you remind me of the #LearnToCode people "Well who cares if all the jobs go away, just teach people to code"
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    > These jobs did not exist pre-ride-sharing companies. Is it your contention that taxi's didn't exist pre-Uber? Or that Taxi's weren't jobs done by ordinary people? I can tell you as someone who is over 40, I would regularly form relationships with Taxi drivers so that I could simply call them up and ask them if they'd be available on X day, X time, and if they could use the "special" rate, and the answer was yes. Where special rate meant paying just them and not the taxi company I met them through. There is nothing special about Uber or Lyft, and if they leave California the existing Taxi company's will fill in the gap.
    - syshum 6y ago
      >> "special" rate, Pretty sure that is illegal, if not it is unethical > if they leave California the existing Taxi company's will fill in the gap. Clearly there was a demand for something other than taxi's, while you seemed to like it, and did unethical things to get your rate lower. For most people they found the taxi service to be unappealing and over priced, Thus uber and lyft where born
heavyset_go 6y ago
> Uber and Lyft are more than willing to leave all of California rather than stay and deal with the regulation. They’ve made that clear. Given that Uber adjusted their platform to adhere to the ABC test in jurisdictions where the justice system upheld the law, I doubt that they'll leave. If they were to leave, though, that would be a good thing. There are dozens of companies that do follow the law and do pay their taxes that are champing at the bit to eat Uber's lunch.
- syshum 6y ago
  I dont think there are... Uber and Lyft filled a market need for lower cost ride services. The key was they were LOWER COST than a taxi, if everyone had to be full employee's with all of the costs that entils it is likely the fare will be at or higher than taxis, And given there would be less competition between drivers, the service would also drop It would just be a taxi service which was universally hated as too expensive with poor service.
  - winkeltripel 6y ago
    Did they actually cost less after accounting for a normal profit margin? My understanding was that Uber lost money on each ride, right?
    - gruez 6y ago
      >My understanding was that Uber lost money on each ride, right? AFAIK in mature markets they made a profit
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  You mean the taxi companies that Uber and Lyft effectively replaced that were even more sleazy? I’m still wondering how the taxi industry managed to get an exemption from these new standards and why that was deemed fair.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago

viraptor 6y ago

> Uber and Lyft are more than willing to leave all of California rather than stay and deal with the regulation. Ok. And why is that bad? The office work / engineers will stay. If there's need for transport, the drivers will work for transport in other ways. If nobody wants to pay for better conditions of drivers, then we just exposed the VC funding as unsustainable in a long run - it would happen sooner or later.

Hnaomyiph 6y ago
>if there is a need for transport, the drivers will work for transport in other ways This is incredibly unlikely in any imaginable way.
usaar333 6y ago
Why are the drivers driving for Uber and not say being Instacart shoppers where they can be employees?
ChrisLomont 6y ago
Wage floors push the most vulnerable out of the workforce. Is that bad?
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  If somebody is vulnerable, I'd say it seems like a very bad thing to make them work by threatening them with homelessness and poverty, enforced by men with guns. So no, I don't think it is.
  - unishark 6y ago
    If most people want to help them, as apparently most people do (these laws need to get passed in a democracy, after all), why does that help need to be enforced by men with guns?
- viraptor 6y ago
  This would be the immediate effect today. An alternative description is "VC money supports the axe hanging over unprofitable uber jobs". The question is - does uber need to find a solution to this problem today or in X months? This is going to happen one way or another.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Uber is profitable in many markets and was approaching broad profitability this year before Covid.
- whiddershins 6y ago
  Yes. A sense of self determination is important to human functioning.
r29vzg2 6y ago
Why stop at Uber drivers? Why don’t the California regulators just regulate away all jobs that don’t pay a livable wage? Why don’t the California regulators just raise the minimum wage to $90k a year? Like I mentioned in the post above, regulations don’t exist in a vacuum, just because you say something should be a certain way doesn’t mean it will be. There are costs, and Uber and Lyft have determined that it’s not economically feasible for them keep operating in California under those regulations. If we’re ok with California regulators dictating what jobs should exist regardless of what the market can support, then this is the result.
- Talanes 6y ago
  "Why don’t the California regulators just regulate away all jobs that don’t pay a livable wage?" I'm down.
  - um_ya 6y ago
    All the people fleeing California disagree with you
    - ikiris 6y ago
      This is not why we're fleeing.
      - winkeltripel 6y ago
        Is it cause you want to own a home one day? Or at least stop paying more rent each month than a mortgage in other states?
  - ikiris 6y ago
    "FINE< WHY NOT GO EVEN FURTHER AND REALLY HELP THE POOR?!?! IM SURE YOU'LL BE SORRY THEN!" I never really understand some arguments with people who think most regulation is bad and not voted in blood.
    - 6y ago
aetherson 6y ago
It's by no means clear that drivers for Uber/Lyft will have viable prospects in this scenario. These jobs did not exist pre-ride-sharing companies. It's not like all these drivers were driving cabs before.
- viraptor 6y ago
  The need for transport will not go away. The moment uber and Lyft leave, other companies will come in. There may not be 1:1 replacement of the drivers, but a lot can jump ship. Others? It will suck when it happens, but hopefully they can find other jobs. There's going to be quite a few office jobs for people with cab experience at companies trying to take over the market though.
  - syshum 6y ago
    LOL, you remind me of the #LearnToCode people "Well who cares if all the jobs go away, just teach people to code"
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  > These jobs did not exist pre-ride-sharing companies. Is it your contention that taxi's didn't exist pre-Uber? Or that Taxi's weren't jobs done by ordinary people? I can tell you as someone who is over 40, I would regularly form relationships with Taxi drivers so that I could simply call them up and ask them if they'd be available on X day, X time, and if they could use the "special" rate, and the answer was yes. Where special rate meant paying just them and not the taxi company I met them through. There is nothing special about Uber or Lyft, and if they leave California the existing Taxi company's will fill in the gap.
  - syshum 6y ago
    >> "special" rate, Pretty sure that is illegal, if not it is unethical > if they leave California the existing Taxi company's will fill in the gap. Clearly there was a demand for something other than taxi's, while you seemed to like it, and did unethical things to get your rate lower. For most people they found the taxi service to be unappealing and over priced, Thus uber and lyft where born

heavyset_go 6y ago

> Uber and Lyft are more than willing to leave all of California rather than stay and deal with the regulation. They’ve made that clear. Given that Uber adjusted their platform to adhere to the ABC test in jurisdictions where the justice system upheld the law, I doubt that they'll leave. If they were to leave, though, that would be a good thing. There are dozens of companies that do follow the law and do pay their taxes that are champing at the bit to eat Uber's lunch.

syshum 6y ago
I dont think there are... Uber and Lyft filled a market need for lower cost ride services. The key was they were LOWER COST than a taxi, if everyone had to be full employee's with all of the costs that entils it is likely the fare will be at or higher than taxis, And given there would be less competition between drivers, the service would also drop It would just be a taxi service which was universally hated as too expensive with poor service.
- winkeltripel 6y ago
  Did they actually cost less after accounting for a normal profit margin? My understanding was that Uber lost money on each ride, right?
  - gruez 6y ago
    >My understanding was that Uber lost money on each ride, right? AFAIK in mature markets they made a profit
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
You mean the taxi companies that Uber and Lyft effectively replaced that were even more sleazy? I’m still wondering how the taxi industry managed to get an exemption from these new standards and why that was deemed fair.
- heavyset_go 6y ago