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> Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas. They always were, maybe you don't recall the shortage in 2009 when Gazprom shut off the gas to Ukraine, whic

> Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas. They always were, maybe you don't recall the shortage in 2009 when Gazprom shut off the gas to Ukraine, which happened 2 years before 3/11 [0]. I jokingly asked if that's why they still kept their wood burning furnaces in the building I lived and why they made it a priority we knew how to keep the backofen going throughout the Winter months and while I got slight a chuckle I knew it didn't go over too well. 0: https://money.cnn.com/2009/01/07/news/international/russia_ukraine/index.htm https://money.cnn.com/2009/01/07/news/international/russia_u...

Aperocky 6y ago
wondering if it got worse - if they did manage to build more nuclear plants like French did (75% from nuclear) instead of closing them all down, maybe Germany will be able to heat their homes without CO2 emissions in winter.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > wondering if it got worse - if they did manage to build more nuclear plants like French did (75% from nuclear) instead of closing them all down, maybe Germany will be able to heat their homes without CO2 emissions in winter. They don't need to build anymore, they just import it. I lived 30km away from Alsace, and despite us having a significant amount of solar on all of our buildings, as did most of the local community/neighborhood, it was well understood that a significant amount of Baden-Wuttenberg's energy (the 'greenest-centric' Stat of Germany) needs were just bought from France. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I was there in 2012-13 during the transition, and I lived in an old 7 bedroom old Chateau style home that had its top floor being renovated, which was exposed to the cold winter. We lived on the bottom floor and mainly relied on wood heat from the backofen in the center of the home to heat the rest, and when we didn't/forget to keep it goin I could literately see my breath while I laid in bed as I lived the furthest away from the source, and as someone born and raised in SoCal it was incredibly terrifying at first. Before I wised up and figured out the heating method I often made my bed before having a shower and going to bed and I stuck a 2L glassflasch with hot water from those instant water heater kettle's. But it wasn't long before I summoned the inner pyro in me I had suppressed since my early teens.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > I could literately see my breath while I laid in bed I laughed. In temperate New Zealand we have some truly crap housing and this is seen in many houses during our mild winters.
    - soperj 6y ago
      Once a scarfy, always a scarfy.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? Germany is a net electricity exporter, we don't "depend" on French nuclear energy. But of course, Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on the load distribution and the weather, there is a lot of inporting on exporting, because eletricity is traded across long distances. While often there is a significant amount of elektricity going to Germany, that is usually just transiting to other countries. And at other times Germany is exporting to France (which then often is transiting to the UK).
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? I was there for my Biodynamic farming apprenticeship, and that was just what it was. It was fine, and I spent quite a bit of time there I enjoyed my time there and it taught me a lot how to cope with issues with older homes and it helped me learn to do repairs where needed. > Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on the load distribution and the weather, there is a lot of inporting on exporting, because eletricity is traded across long distances. I figured, but I was there not long after the phasing out period and solar was still being deployed, so much so I actually got to work on a few builds. > Please stop spreading myths. Germany was an energy exporter for most of the last years and even to France in the last 5 years Look at the years I listed, I was there 8 years ago not long after Fukushima. Was that still the case back then?
      - 6y ago
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Well, in the past it might have been an option go build more nuclear power plants, but today it isn't. And that is for a simple reason: no one can afford to build new nuclear power plants. Take France: France really depends on nuclear energy and have a fleet of aging plants. They needed to be replaced, but France is not able to do that. They have a single power plant in construction, but it is overrunning costs by far. They would have to replace over 50 plants, yet there are no plans doing so. So even France is exiting nuclear, when the aged plants have to be shut down. They are frightingly extending their life times, so I hoep the shutting down doesn't come by a "mishap" and makes southern Germany uninhabitable.
  - adventured 6y ago
    > no one can afford to build new nuclear power plants Except for China and India that is. China has 12 under construction, India has seven under construction.
    - _ph_ 6y ago
      Yes, how much larger is China than France? The 12 in China don't even compare to the single plant built in France right now, if you do the math. And of course, just France would need over 50 new plants, if they wanted to continue to use nuclear energy.
      - adventured 6y ago
        > The 12 in China don't even compare to the single plant built in France right now, if you do the math. I have no idea what you're talking about. The 12 reactors under construction in China are equal to 19% of France's entire nuclear base. And those are just what China has under construction over the next four to five years. In the 20 years it will take France to expand Flamanville, China will have deployed new nuclear capacity greater than the total installed nuclear base in France.
        _ph_ 6y ago
        Well you have to divide the energy generation by the population. China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much. And France would need to build at least 10 right now, if they wanted to keep their ratio of nuclear power production.
- throwaway56034 6y ago
  France didn't really build new plants either, the existing plants are just as old as Germany's. The one big new project under construction, Flamanville, is already way over budget, more expensive than renewables - even before taking decommissioning into account
Krasnol 6y ago
Since when does nuclear energy provide for heat? PS. Russia has been delivering gas even in the worst days of the Cold War and your "joke" was insulting and is pretty much misplaced in the discussion here. They however probably still talk about the stupid 'murican who thought they'd run out of gas.

Aperocky 6y ago

wondering if it got worse - if they did manage to build more nuclear plants like French did (75% from nuclear) instead of closing them all down, maybe Germany will be able to heat their homes without CO2 emissions in winter.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> wondering if it got worse - if they did manage to build more nuclear plants like French did (75% from nuclear) instead of closing them all down, maybe Germany will be able to heat their homes without CO2 emissions in winter. They don't need to build anymore, they just import it. I lived 30km away from Alsace, and despite us having a significant amount of solar on all of our buildings, as did most of the local community/neighborhood, it was well understood that a significant amount of Baden-Wuttenberg's energy (the 'greenest-centric' Stat of Germany) needs were just bought from France. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I was there in 2012-13 during the transition, and I lived in an old 7 bedroom old Chateau style home that had its top floor being renovated, which was exposed to the cold winter. We lived on the bottom floor and mainly relied on wood heat from the backofen in the center of the home to heat the rest, and when we didn't/forget to keep it goin I could literately see my breath while I laid in bed as I lived the furthest away from the source, and as someone born and raised in SoCal it was incredibly terrifying at first. Before I wised up and figured out the heating method I often made my bed before having a shower and going to bed and I stuck a 2L glassflasch with hot water from those instant water heater kettle's. But it wasn't long before I summoned the inner pyro in me I had suppressed since my early teens.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > I could literately see my breath while I laid in bed I laughed. In temperate New Zealand we have some truly crap housing and this is seen in many houses during our mild winters.
  - soperj 6y ago
    Once a scarfy, always a scarfy.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? Germany is a net electricity exporter, we don't "depend" on French nuclear energy. But of course, Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on the load distribution and the weather, there is a lot of inporting on exporting, because eletricity is traded across long distances. While often there is a significant amount of elektricity going to Germany, that is usually just transiting to other countries. And at other times Germany is exporting to France (which then often is transiting to the UK).
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? I was there for my Biodynamic farming apprenticeship, and that was just what it was. It was fine, and I spent quite a bit of time there I enjoyed my time there and it taught me a lot how to cope with issues with older homes and it helped me learn to do repairs where needed. > Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on the load distribution and the weather, there is a lot of inporting on exporting, because eletricity is traded across long distances. I figured, but I was there not long after the phasing out period and solar was still being deployed, so much so I actually got to work on a few builds. > Please stop spreading myths. Germany was an energy exporter for most of the last years and even to France in the last 5 years Look at the years I listed, I was there 8 years ago not long after Fukushima. Was that still the case back then?
    - 6y ago
_ph_ 6y ago
Well, in the past it might have been an option go build more nuclear power plants, but today it isn't. And that is for a simple reason: no one can afford to build new nuclear power plants. Take France: France really depends on nuclear energy and have a fleet of aging plants. They needed to be replaced, but France is not able to do that. They have a single power plant in construction, but it is overrunning costs by far. They would have to replace over 50 plants, yet there are no plans doing so. So even France is exiting nuclear, when the aged plants have to be shut down. They are frightingly extending their life times, so I hoep the shutting down doesn't come by a "mishap" and makes southern Germany uninhabitable.
- adventured 6y ago
  > no one can afford to build new nuclear power plants Except for China and India that is. China has 12 under construction, India has seven under construction.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    Yes, how much larger is China than France? The 12 in China don't even compare to the single plant built in France right now, if you do the math. And of course, just France would need over 50 new plants, if they wanted to continue to use nuclear energy.
    - adventured 6y ago
      > The 12 in China don't even compare to the single plant built in France right now, if you do the math. I have no idea what you're talking about. The 12 reactors under construction in China are equal to 19% of France's entire nuclear base. And those are just what China has under construction over the next four to five years. In the 20 years it will take France to expand Flamanville, China will have deployed new nuclear capacity greater than the total installed nuclear base in France.
      - _ph_ 6y ago
        Well you have to divide the energy generation by the population. China has 21 times the population of France, so building 12x as many nuclear power plants isn't much. And France would need to build at least 10 right now, if they wanted to keep their ratio of nuclear power production.
throwaway56034 6y ago
France didn't really build new plants either, the existing plants are just as old as Germany's. The one big new project under construction, Flamanville, is already way over budget, more expensive than renewables - even before taking decommissioning into account

Krasnol 6y ago

Since when does nuclear energy provide for heat? PS. Russia has been delivering gas even in the worst days of the Cold War and your "joke" was insulting and is pretty much misplaced in the discussion here. They however probably still talk about the stupid 'murican who thought they'd run out of gas.