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This interview from April 2019 was the thing that convinced me he was a fraud. https://www.truckinginfo.com/330475/whats-behind-the-grille-of-the-new-nikola-hyd

• abledon 6y ago
  "HTML5 Super Computer" lol, thats the best sequence of words i've heard this year
  • tyingq 6y ago
    That's certainly the funniest bit, but "so using it lets us build our own chips" is the biggest head scratcher.
    • abledon 6y ago
      the ease of programming HTML5 frees up our engineers to move their efforts towards chip-design!
• jameslevy 6y ago
  At least he's talking about the infotainment system, and not an internal system or something where there's no conceivable use for HTML/JS.
  • tempsy 6y ago
    > "so using it let's us build our own chips" what is the connection between HTML5 and building your own chips?
    • ashtonkem 6y ago
      Both are things that get non-tech savvy investors excited, apparently.
      • tempsy 6y ago
        "...I use CSS too!" stock goes up 10%
    • WalterSear 6y ago
      They are both Venture Capital-strength buzzwords.
    • divbzero 6y ago
      That one’s pretty obvious: The custom quantum chips enable hardware-accelerated HTML5 and power the deep neural nets that drive carbon emissions to zero.
      • BoorishBears 6y ago
        If you really want to be charitable, it could just be it benchmarks well with Js. Maybe cache hierarchy or instruction extensions like Arm v8.3 The "build our own chips" could be like when people call entire computer towers "CPUs" and really just mean build the infotainment boards how they like. HTML 5 gives them easy portability in the case they want to change things out. Security would probably refer to embedding something like Chromium and taking advantage of their sandbox And "data network instead of stuff just working" could mean something like local network RPC/REST over HTTPS instead of CAN which is much more general purpose - This is all a lot of stretching... but sometimes non-technical people try to very confidently regurgitate technical things they hear while filling in the gaps Especially because they don't realize how small changes in terms have such outsized changes in meaning (hence the calling a computer tower a CPU)
  • hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    I wouldn't care if you're building an actual website, calling something "an HTML5 super computer" is total bullshit in any context.
    • phkahler 6y ago
      Can someone emulate a Cray using JS and HTML 5 please? I want to see this HTML 5 super computer.
  • phkahler 6y ago
    It's hard for me to wrap my head around time. Over 20 years ago the CxO of Sun came to one of the big automotive events and said a car is just a browser on wheels. I think he was selling coffee. Er Java? Been too long.
• jamsiedaly 6y ago
  The bigger issue here is that this man was able to convince "industry veterans" to give him massive amounts of money. You can see through him in a heart beat because you're technically savvy. Clearly the people running these automakers are not.
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • awb 6y ago
    There might not be many options for investors that want exposure to the EV market but missed the boat on Tesla. I'm sure plenty thought it could be the Lyft to Tesla's Uber. It will really only fail when the money dries up. As long as they can keep raising money, they can keep the fantasy alive long enough to lure in other investors.
  • taurath 6y ago
    The domestic auto industry is a jobs program not a real business.
    • Avicebron 6y ago
      Which everyone should be made aware of, because it's worth asking how did it get that way, and how do we prevent other industries from suffering this fate. It's been modern economic theory that has encouraged this stripping of US industry...unfortunately it's a lauded theory.
    • mdorazio 6y ago
      I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. Ford sold close to a million F-150s alone in 2019 (the best-selling vehicle in America), with the F-series line doing $42 billion in revenue on its own. The domestic auto industry is very much a real business with real revenue and real profitability.
      • recuter 6y ago
        Ford is permanently up to its eyeballs in debt and would not be a viable business without repeated government bailouts due to its history. It isn't a very profitable market.
• james412 6y ago
  You think he's a fraud simply because he bullshitted his way through some computer sales pitch? In a way, I have a ton of respect for people willing to even try this kind of thing in public If he could talk lucidly about things like HTML I'd think that lent more credence to the possibility he didn't have a clue about hydrogen edit: for the downvoters, if you haven't seen one of these "bear thesis" articles before, understand you must do at least as much homework as the bear claims to have done before accepting anything you read. Of course Nikola is a dodgy company, but it's also a social phenomenon. That's the value in it for the likes of GM, and also for the average investor -- including the professionals. At one stage YouTube was the largest video piracy company on the planet before a larger company swallowed them up and cut deals to legitimize what they'd done. Meanwhile, everyone knew the brand. You can consider what's happening here to be something roughly comparable
  • cj 6y ago
    Fair enough. But what kind of person lies about the existence of solar panels on their roof? > Trevor claimed that Nikola’s headquarters has 3.5 megawatts of solar panels on its roof producing energy. Aerial photos of the roof and later media reports show that the supposed panels don’t exist.
  • ceejayoz 6y ago
    You have a ton of respect for people who will lie through their teeth to make a sale? Why should we not assume his HTML5 knowledge is roughly equivalent to his hydrogen car knowledge?
    • james412 6y ago
      Would you withdraw your savings from a bank because the cashier didn't understand HTML 5? Why should we not assume operating a cash drawer is roughly equivalent to HTML 5 knowledge?
      • ceejayoz 6y ago
        1. He’s a vastly more senior person than a cashier. 2. It’s not the lack of understanding that’s concerning. It’s the confident wrongness.
• renewiltord 6y ago
  Have you listened to Jack Ma talk? He sounds like some kind of total moron in the panel discussion with Elon Musk. I know, you're thinking "It's not his first language. That's what it is" but go watch it yourself¹. The ideas he expresses seem completely unformed and make it look like he's not operating at a particularly high level. But Alibaba is real. It's a real company doing real things and delivering real value. It's a giant success. Now I'm not saying Nikola will be (maybe those shorts for 2022 are pretty cheap) but people speak like complete idiots and still run successful companies that they start. ¹ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3lUEnMaiAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3lUEnMaiAU Here's a highlight: https://youtu.be/f3lUEnMaiAU?t=789 https://youtu.be/f3lUEnMaiAU?t=789
  • meowface 6y ago
    Yeah, if a CEO/director being a chronic bullshit artist always meant a company was fraudulent, I'm not sure how many legitimate companies we'd have left.
  • outworlder 6y ago
    When they are just a figurehead for a government-backed enterprise, they can be complete morons. When you are the head of a revolutionary startup that's competing technologically with existing companies, you can't afford to be one.
    • vkou 6y ago
      Extraordinary claims (That AliBaba was successful solely because the government of China is apparently pouring billions of dollars into it, making it literally impossible for it to do anything but succeed) require extraordinary evidence. Their financials are public - please point out the line items that the CCP is bankrolling. And while you're at it, explain why it seems to be so altruistic as to be funneling national funds into a publicly traded company. (I won't even ask for an explanation of why large US tech companies are, in your assessment, not backed by the government.) There's a world of difference between "You need to be in the good graces of the government to operate", and "The government is operating you." Contrary to popular misconception, e-commerce, like most business in China is not a command economy, operated from some underground Poltibureau bunker, all for the glory of the sickle, the hammer, and the star.
• jariel 6y ago
  Actually - just the opposite. Most people do not really know how HTML works, and nobody but technical people should really. Or at least - they could make major mistakes in communication. If he was 'my CEO' I would understand that he was trying to say 'Infotainment is a platform, built on extensible tech that everyone knows how to use' - this is fair. It seems like Nikola is a fraud, but this isn't the red flag actually. This is standard miscommunication.
  • viraptor 6y ago
    I agree this could be easily understood as a result of some internal talks where they switched platforms and he got a report saying "We don't need to rewrite the infotainment system, it's mostly HTML5, so we're all good even after we switched from X to the customised ARM foo". It's still stupid, but doesn't mean he's actively lying here.
• ugh123 6y ago
  I'm not convinced thats fraud but probably just "CEO bullshitter who only speaks in buzzwords in public" (referring to the interview). I also don't think anyone at GM (through whatever technical diligence they hopefully did) didn't bank on HTML5 as a chip-enablement strategy.
• outworlder 6y ago
  > The entire infotainment system is a HTML 5 super computer, Should have added some blockchain while he was at it.
  • adventured 6y ago
    They're pursuing a patent for that, so he was reluctant to talk about it. The blockchains are embedded into HTML tags using proprietary, secure data attributes. It's hash encrypted using CSS3, which is the standard algorithmic formulation language used by all programmers to control how data is shared.
• gamblor956 6y ago
  Many people feel the same way listening to Elon Musk talking about AI and self driving... And yet every Tesla owner tells me that their car is just one update away from driving itself across the country.
  • marvin 6y ago
    Musk states that his company's intention is to advance computer vision to the point where it can safely drive a car, and then offer this technology with the sensors deployed in their current vehicle fleet. Milton stated that using a very secure HTML5 supercomputer that's linked on the data network allows them to build their own chips. These statements are not equivalent in what they imply about the speaker. It's not subtle.
    • gamblor956 6y ago
      Musk says a lot of silly things about areas of science and technology he knows nothing about. People who do know about those topics feel the same way about Musk as most of HN, a web-technologies focused forum, feels about Milton talking about HTML5.
      • jryle70 6y ago
        Do you have some examples of those silly things?
  • _jal 6y ago
    > just one update away What's the over/under on cold fusion before self-driving? It used to be more fun before the search engines start pushing age over relevance, but searching for 'elon musk claims' is entertaining.
    • apendleton 6y ago
      Self-driving first for sure, since cold fusion isn't thought to even be theoretically possible, and I think self-driving is likely to arrive sometime before "never," even if it's a long time from now. With the uptick in funding for vanilla/hot fusion, though, self-driving vs. hot fusion (Q>1) is actually a legitimately interesting question, I think. I'd probably still bet on self-driving, I guess? But I'd be less confident (and I don't think either is soon).
• mgh2 6y ago
  Money talks...even if it is BS, the world is full of it. Before you downvote this, keep in mind that the founder comes from a Mormon background - perfect upbringing to be trained as a salesman Another example of selling snake-oil ideas comes from the author of the book "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People": "According to Clayton Christensen, The Seven Habits was a secular distillation of Latter-day Saint values." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Covey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Covey
  • abfan1127 6y ago
    sorry, what is the example of? Also, how is the Mormon background good for being a salesman?
    • mgh2 6y ago
      They are required to do missionary work like a door to door salesman. Imagine being trained like that from youth- you could sell anything. This comes from an anecdote from an ex-Mormon friend.
      • xenospn 6y ago
        It definitely gives you an edge if you're extroverted to begin with.
• hackyhacky 6y ago
  "At our new hospital, we're using stethoscopes," he said. "That's an industry-standard tool for doctors around the world. Because of that, we can perform advanced procedures, like hemorrhoidectomy and brain transplant."
• WheelsAtLarge 6y ago
  I've known plenty of manager types that have a very little understanding of the technology involved with their product. A lot of times they try to parrot what their technical team is telling them. Some can be very good at it, other sound like idiots because they have little true understanding of the technology. But that's okay, since their true expertise is in putting together a company or organization that outputs a successful product. It requires being able to manage and inspire people to get the best from them. And countless other parts that I can't even imagine. It does not require a CEO to get too deep in the weeds of the technology. A CEO does not have to know everything, he just has to hire and manage the people that will do the parts he doesn't know. Technology has very little to do with that but expertise on how people work and function has everything to do with it. BTW, they sound like idiots to the people that understand the technology but that's a small subset of all people. Most people have even less understanding than the CEO. So they get influence by his charm and finesse. What most people would call BS around here.
• abawany 6y ago
  For me, this was sadly hilarious (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-06/it-s-a-good-and-bad-time-for-ipos https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-06/it-s-a...): "More impressive is that Nikola’s revenue for the second quarter was very small ('immaterial,' Nikola actually calls it), just $36,000. Most impressive, though, is how they earned that revenue: 'During the three months ended June 30, 2020 and 2019 the Company recorded solar revenues of $0.03 million and $0.04 million, respectively, for the provision of solar installation services to the Executive Chairman, which are billed on time and materials basis. During the six months ended June 30, 2020 and 2019 the Company recorded solar revenues of $0.08 million and $0.06 million, respectively, for the provision of solar installation services to the Executive Chairman. As of June 30, 2020 and December 31, 2019, the Company had $3 thousand and $51 thousand, respectively, outstanding in accounts receivable related to solar installation services. The outstanding balance was paid subsequent to period end.' 'Solar installation projects are not related to our primary operations and are expected to be discontinued,' says Nikola, but I guess they are doing one last job, specifically installing solar panels at founder and executive chairman Trevor Milton’s house? It is a $13 billion company whose only business so far is doing odd jobs around its founder’s house." Edit0: formatting.
• throwawaysea 6y ago
  Wow that is just complete gibberish. I haven’t been plugged into these incidents and didn’t realize there were such issues. Is this an indictment of news media? I feel like I’ve mostly been fed vague but confidently positive news bites before this discussion.