4 ms·

I guess you're advocating that parents get lower performance ratings during the pandemic if their responsibility to their family has caused them to do lower qua

I guess you're advocating that parents get lower performance ratings during the pandemic if their responsibility to their family has caused them to do lower quality work for their employer. I think that's sort of absurd (for all the reasons jdm2212 has pointed out), but, as a parent of two grade-school children myself, I'd take that deal of it made all the childless people feel they were being treated fairly. I am concerned that performance reviews are generally about communicating paths for development and progress against some goal. I'm not sure how valuable that feedback will be for parents who suffer low performance because of child-rearing responsibilities. I wouldn't suddenly work more hours to improve my performance at the expense of my children's education during this period. It's a poor trade for everyone involved, except perhaps my employer, and even then, it's likely only beneficial for them in the short-term.

bitexploder 6y ago
Tech is full of entitled low empathy technocrats. This may seem harsh, but it is very true in my experience. Especially at organizations that skew younger and have discriminatory or ageists hiring practices. It gets talked about obliquely and there are a lot of compelling and meritocratic arguments about how unfair all of this is to people without kids, but ultimately the concessions are few and far between. This mostly comes down to empathy and it is a skill many young technologists have not cultivated by choice or through a general life path to this point. Yes, I am making a lot of generalizations but I don’t think they are a reach.
- listennexttime 6y ago
  I'm a low empathy technocrat because: (1) I chose not to have children, and (2) I find it unfair that I'm expected to work longer hours for the same compensation/work profile. Is that it? ... No, that's not it. Your position assumes that: (1) Child-rearing is some a-priori, guaranteed good, and (2) That it apparently should be subsidized by employers, (3) and (both implicitly and explicitly, from you and others) at the expense of their non-child having coworkers. Am I getting something wrong, or missing something? I absolutely think parents should get a break during the pandemic. I think everyone should. The work people are doing here to act like we should worship the ground parents walk is easily the most shocking thing I've witnessed. Honestly, it's not at all a stretch to say you basically insist parents get extra compensation (in the form of extra paid vacation). Call me whatever name you want, but people are well within their rights on this, of all places, to raise an eyebrow. --- The other generous interpretation is that there is some base assumption that we ALL (parents and non-parents) should running ourselves at 90+% capacity. And that children are an accept caveat since parents are usually at 100% capacity. What a terrifying dismal way to look at life. I hope that's not it.
  - CURLY3Y 6y ago
    And yet there is not a shred of empathy within this whole comment.
    - moduspol 6y ago
      It feels like one could justify just about anything by pointing to a "lack of empathy" by opponents. I think HN can do better.
      - gandutraveler 6y ago
        So true. HN users tend to use empathy card a lot when they can't agree to disagree other side of the argument.
      - bitexploder 6y ago
        Come on. This whole thread was kicked off by a single person complaining how they might possibly have to help otherwise high performing colleagues out by covering for them some during an unprecedented pandemic. I can’t recall a single time in my time in HN (since it started, literally) I asked or thought this was a more appropriate thing to say.
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        Or "tone-deaf" when something don't get the reaction someone thinks it deserves.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    > I find it unfair that I'm expected to work longer hours for the same compensation/work profile. When you say "longer hours" do you mean "longer hours than I worked before COVID" or "the same amount of hours, but longer than parents will be working during COVID"? If you mean the former, then you need a better employer, because agreed, you should not be required or expected to increase your work hours due to COVID, for any reason, and certainly not to pick up the slack caused by parents losing productivity. If you mean the latter, then this just sounds like entitled whining. Your life has not changed because parents get more flexibility. It's exactly the same as it was before. Parents don't get to stop taking care of their kids. I know quite a few working parents, and I guarantee you that they don't want to take time away from work for child care right now. But they have no choice. You are incredibly lucky that you aren't a parent right now; take that blessing as your "subsidy" and stop complaining about things that don't actually affect you.

bitexploder 6y ago

Tech is full of entitled low empathy technocrats. This may seem harsh, but it is very true in my experience. Especially at organizations that skew younger and have discriminatory or ageists hiring practices. It gets talked about obliquely and there are a lot of compelling and meritocratic arguments about how unfair all of this is to people without kids, but ultimately the concessions are few and far between. This mostly comes down to empathy and it is a skill many young technologists have not cultivated by choice or through a general life path to this point. Yes, I am making a lot of generalizations but I don’t think they are a reach.

listennexttime 6y ago
I'm a low empathy technocrat because: (1) I chose not to have children, and (2) I find it unfair that I'm expected to work longer hours for the same compensation/work profile. Is that it? ... No, that's not it. Your position assumes that: (1) Child-rearing is some a-priori, guaranteed good, and (2) That it apparently should be subsidized by employers, (3) and (both implicitly and explicitly, from you and others) at the expense of their non-child having coworkers. Am I getting something wrong, or missing something? I absolutely think parents should get a break during the pandemic. I think everyone should. The work people are doing here to act like we should worship the ground parents walk is easily the most shocking thing I've witnessed. Honestly, it's not at all a stretch to say you basically insist parents get extra compensation (in the form of extra paid vacation). Call me whatever name you want, but people are well within their rights on this, of all places, to raise an eyebrow. --- The other generous interpretation is that there is some base assumption that we ALL (parents and non-parents) should running ourselves at 90+% capacity. And that children are an accept caveat since parents are usually at 100% capacity. What a terrifying dismal way to look at life. I hope that's not it.
- CURLY3Y 6y ago
  And yet there is not a shred of empathy within this whole comment.
  - moduspol 6y ago
    It feels like one could justify just about anything by pointing to a "lack of empathy" by opponents. I think HN can do better.
    - gandutraveler 6y ago
      So true. HN users tend to use empathy card a lot when they can't agree to disagree other side of the argument.
    - bitexploder 6y ago
      Come on. This whole thread was kicked off by a single person complaining how they might possibly have to help otherwise high performing colleagues out by covering for them some during an unprecedented pandemic. I can’t recall a single time in my time in HN (since it started, literally) I asked or thought this was a more appropriate thing to say.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      Or "tone-deaf" when something don't get the reaction someone thinks it deserves.
- kelnos 6y ago
  > I find it unfair that I'm expected to work longer hours for the same compensation/work profile. When you say "longer hours" do you mean "longer hours than I worked before COVID" or "the same amount of hours, but longer than parents will be working during COVID"? If you mean the former, then you need a better employer, because agreed, you should not be required or expected to increase your work hours due to COVID, for any reason, and certainly not to pick up the slack caused by parents losing productivity. If you mean the latter, then this just sounds like entitled whining. Your life has not changed because parents get more flexibility. It's exactly the same as it was before. Parents don't get to stop taking care of their kids. I know quite a few working parents, and I guarantee you that they don't want to take time away from work for child care right now. But they have no choice. You are incredibly lucky that you aren't a parent right now; take that blessing as your "subsidy" and stop complaining about things that don't actually affect you.