7 ms·

It's getting to the point where one must ask why someone wealthy enough to fly internationally would want the hassle of entering the US. It's been bad since 9/

It's getting to the point where one must ask why someone wealthy enough to fly internationally would want the hassle of entering the US. It's been bad since 9/11, but it's insane now. I can't imagine the TSA is treating people better than they did pre-Trump. Maybe things will be better next year.

sokoloff 6y ago
TSA has nothing to do with people entering the US.[0] CBP is the border police. [0] - except for perhaps a few airports where you pre-clear and are treated as a domestic flight (Dublin, Toronto, maybe others)
- dhosek 6y ago
  Regardless, the whole mechanism is pretty awful and has only gotten worse since 20 Jan 2017.
- techsupporter 6y ago
  (FWIW, CBP also does border security at preclearance airports. Local airport staff handle security checks, including the TSA-style bag checks before entering the preclearance area.)
- gpm 6y ago
  On a flight from Toronto to the US... I don't think I interact with the TSA at all? I interact with Canadian security in Canada. I interact with US border control in Canada. I walk out the front door in the states without interacting with security at all. I could be wrong about the agencies that some of the people I interact with work for though.
  - sn41 6y ago
    Probably your baggage is scanned at some point, if you have checked-in luggage.
    - gpm 6y ago
      Is it? By the time it's in the US (i.e. there is TSA around) it's getting off the plane not on. Why would they bother? Why would they have a pipeline to process such luggage? (Of course it's presumably scanned by the Canadian security in Toronto... just not the TSA).
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Correct. The most interaction you would have with TSA would be waving at the guard at the egress gate of the secure side.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    You interact with TSA on your flight from US back to Toronto though
3np 6y ago
I remember at some point a few years ago realizing that “hey, I’m more nervous, hassled, scrutinized and having my privacy compromised entering the USA than mainland China”. That change happened in not that many years. And it is not to say that China improved in any significant manner. It’s been a couple of years pre-COVID that I now avoid (and haven’t been) traveling to or through the USA, a country Ive always otherwise enjoyed my stay in.
- Taek 6y ago
  I am also significantly more hassled entering the US than any other country. And I'm actually a US citizen. The worst part about going to Canada is coming home. Typically a 40 minute affair where 5 different officers pull all the luggage out of my car, dump the contents on the ground, pull out the seats, inspect the engine and all other major cavities, and leave me with a mess that has ruffled and scratched my vehicle. 4 times in a row now.
  - wang_li 6y ago
    I went to Canada once to pay the import duties on a gift and mail it to my friend on the other coast. When I told the Canadian border guards that that is why I was visiting Canada, they told me to pull over and go inside. I went in, they took my iphone, asked for the pass code, charged me the duty on the item I was importing, and then had me sit there for two hours while they went over my car. After letting me go on my way, I drove to Surry, taped the box closed and dropped it at the UPS Store there. Then returned to the US. When the US guards saw my entry time they asked why I visited Canada for only 30 minutes. I told them the exact same thing I told the Canadian guards, they laughed and waved me through. BTW, Canada won't let you in if you have a criminal record or even a DUI citation. When I flew to Rome a couple years ago there are two lines for immigration. One is for Europeans and the other is for everyone else. A guard saw me standing in the everyone else line while holding a blue American RFID enabled passport and pulled me from the line and sent me through the Europeans line. It took me two minutes to get through immigration. My friend arriving from SEA spent an hour and a half and was interrogated about where we were staying, what we were doing, verified a return ticket, and so on. The moral of the story is that every country weighs risks, costs, and benefits every time they let someone in. Borders are a thing and controlling who crosses borders is one of the fundamental and defining characteristics of a country.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
CarbyAu 6y ago
A while back I liked the idea of visiting the US, buying a motorbike and travelling around a bit. But since Trump I really feel on balance that I'd much rather go to many other places in the world instead. Maybe not China/Russia though...
- CarbyAu 6y ago
  Curious, why the downvotes?
  - TMWNN 6y ago
    Because you didn't say anything meaningful. Your comment said that you * maybe possibly might think about someday driving around the US (with the implication that you've never been there) * but since the current president came into office, despite being completely out of reach of him or his government in your foreign country ... * ... you've decided to, well, no longer maybe possibly might think about someday driving around the US. Congratulations.
zimpenfish 6y ago
> It's getting to the point where one must ask why someone wealthy enough to fly internationally would want the hassle of entering the US. Sometimes it's the only sensible option - e.g. as far as I know (the Kiwis I know all go via LAX), London to Auckland via LAX is cheaper, quicker, easier, etc. than going a non-US route like Singapore.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I don’t think you need a visa to travel through the international terminal in America, do you?
  - petschge 6y ago
    You do. The US does not do "sterile transit". That was a major hazzle for (former) colleagues from South Africa.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      That is really bizarre. From an outsiders view, sterile transit seems extremely intuitive; forcing people to buy a visa if their plane gets fuel in the US just seems annoying.
      - gowld 6y ago
        The insiders make the rules. They might fear you will break sterility, or they might hate your ethnicity or religion.
        ashtonkem 6y ago
        Or, they want to collect $160 visa fees for nothing, and avoid having to expensively add sterile transit areas to existing airports.
      - ciceryadam 6y ago
        You also have to recheck your luggage at the first point of entry in USA/Canada - at least if you continue in a domestic flight. This is also time wasted, as you have to get through imigration, wait for your luggage, get your luggage, get through customs, check in your luggage (again), and go through security (again). OTOH if you are flying back to EU/Schengen Area, you'll get your passport checked at EU/Schengen Area point of entry, get through the sterile transit, and only pick up your luggage at your destination.
jrochkind1 6y ago
I do know several musicians who used to tour in the US, but now simply choose not to. Even if you get in, you are treated like shit at the border. This country is in a bad way.
H8crilA 6y ago
I mean it's not like it's so important to visit the US anyhow. Their national parks are great, but that's about it. And there's plenty of nature elsewhere. Cities are dangerous, expensive and mostly rather ugly. I wouldn't cry if I was in his shoes. It's an annoyance, not really a great loss.
gowld 6y ago
Because they want to visit specific people in the US. Unfortunately for the US, this is getting solved by attractive people leaving the US, and people who do have the right to visit are choosing to hold conferences in more-free countries.

sokoloff 6y ago

TSA has nothing to do with people entering the US.[0] CBP is the border police. [0] - except for perhaps a few airports where you pre-clear and are treated as a domestic flight (Dublin, Toronto, maybe others)

dhosek 6y ago
Regardless, the whole mechanism is pretty awful and has only gotten worse since 20 Jan 2017.
techsupporter 6y ago
(FWIW, CBP also does border security at preclearance airports. Local airport staff handle security checks, including the TSA-style bag checks before entering the preclearance area.)
gpm 6y ago
On a flight from Toronto to the US... I don't think I interact with the TSA at all? I interact with Canadian security in Canada. I interact with US border control in Canada. I walk out the front door in the states without interacting with security at all. I could be wrong about the agencies that some of the people I interact with work for though.
- sn41 6y ago
  Probably your baggage is scanned at some point, if you have checked-in luggage.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Is it? By the time it's in the US (i.e. there is TSA around) it's getting off the plane not on. Why would they bother? Why would they have a pipeline to process such luggage? (Of course it's presumably scanned by the Canadian security in Toronto... just not the TSA).
- kortilla 6y ago
  Correct. The most interaction you would have with TSA would be waving at the guard at the egress gate of the secure side.
- dylan604 6y ago
  You interact with TSA on your flight from US back to Toronto though

3np 6y ago

I remember at some point a few years ago realizing that “hey, I’m more nervous, hassled, scrutinized and having my privacy compromised entering the USA than mainland China”. That change happened in not that many years. And it is not to say that China improved in any significant manner. It’s been a couple of years pre-COVID that I now avoid (and haven’t been) traveling to or through the USA, a country Ive always otherwise enjoyed my stay in.

Taek 6y ago
I am also significantly more hassled entering the US than any other country. And I'm actually a US citizen. The worst part about going to Canada is coming home. Typically a 40 minute affair where 5 different officers pull all the luggage out of my car, dump the contents on the ground, pull out the seats, inspect the engine and all other major cavities, and leave me with a mess that has ruffled and scratched my vehicle. 4 times in a row now.
- wang_li 6y ago
  I went to Canada once to pay the import duties on a gift and mail it to my friend on the other coast. When I told the Canadian border guards that that is why I was visiting Canada, they told me to pull over and go inside. I went in, they took my iphone, asked for the pass code, charged me the duty on the item I was importing, and then had me sit there for two hours while they went over my car. After letting me go on my way, I drove to Surry, taped the box closed and dropped it at the UPS Store there. Then returned to the US. When the US guards saw my entry time they asked why I visited Canada for only 30 minutes. I told them the exact same thing I told the Canadian guards, they laughed and waved me through. BTW, Canada won't let you in if you have a criminal record or even a DUI citation. When I flew to Rome a couple years ago there are two lines for immigration. One is for Europeans and the other is for everyone else. A guard saw me standing in the everyone else line while holding a blue American RFID enabled passport and pulled me from the line and sent me through the Europeans line. It took me two minutes to get through immigration. My friend arriving from SEA spent an hour and a half and was interrogated about where we were staying, what we were doing, verified a return ticket, and so on. The moral of the story is that every country weighs risks, costs, and benefits every time they let someone in. Borders are a thing and controlling who crosses borders is one of the fundamental and defining characteristics of a country.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

CarbyAu 6y ago

A while back I liked the idea of visiting the US, buying a motorbike and travelling around a bit. But since Trump I really feel on balance that I'd much rather go to many other places in the world instead. Maybe not China/Russia though...

CarbyAu 6y ago
Curious, why the downvotes?
- TMWNN 6y ago
  Because you didn't say anything meaningful. Your comment said that you * maybe possibly might think about someday driving around the US (with the implication that you've never been there) * but since the current president came into office, despite being completely out of reach of him or his government in your foreign country ... * ... you've decided to, well, no longer maybe possibly might think about someday driving around the US. Congratulations.

zimpenfish 6y ago

> It's getting to the point where one must ask why someone wealthy enough to fly internationally would want the hassle of entering the US. Sometimes it's the only sensible option - e.g. as far as I know (the Kiwis I know all go via LAX), London to Auckland via LAX is cheaper, quicker, easier, etc. than going a non-US route like Singapore.

ashtonkem 6y ago
I don’t think you need a visa to travel through the international terminal in America, do you?
- petschge 6y ago
  You do. The US does not do "sterile transit". That was a major hazzle for (former) colleagues from South Africa.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    That is really bizarre. From an outsiders view, sterile transit seems extremely intuitive; forcing people to buy a visa if their plane gets fuel in the US just seems annoying.
    - gowld 6y ago
      The insiders make the rules. They might fear you will break sterility, or they might hate your ethnicity or religion.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Or, they want to collect $160 visa fees for nothing, and avoid having to expensively add sterile transit areas to existing airports.
    - ciceryadam 6y ago
      You also have to recheck your luggage at the first point of entry in USA/Canada - at least if you continue in a domestic flight. This is also time wasted, as you have to get through imigration, wait for your luggage, get your luggage, get through customs, check in your luggage (again), and go through security (again). OTOH if you are flying back to EU/Schengen Area, you'll get your passport checked at EU/Schengen Area point of entry, get through the sterile transit, and only pick up your luggage at your destination.

jrochkind1 6y ago

I do know several musicians who used to tour in the US, but now simply choose not to. Even if you get in, you are treated like shit at the border. This country is in a bad way.

H8crilA 6y ago

I mean it's not like it's so important to visit the US anyhow. Their national parks are great, but that's about it. And there's plenty of nature elsewhere. Cities are dangerous, expensive and mostly rather ugly. I wouldn't cry if I was in his shoes. It's an annoyance, not really a great loss.

gowld 6y ago

Because they want to visit specific people in the US. Unfortunately for the US, this is getting solved by attractive people leaving the US, and people who do have the right to visit are choosing to hold conferences in more-free countries.