5 ms·

Could you describe what you mean by "too strenuous"? I don't know if I ever had it (I still get tested occasionally), but I don't ever feel 100% anymore. I don

Could you describe what you mean by "too strenuous"? I don't know if I ever had it (I still get tested occasionally), but I don't ever feel 100% anymore. I don't know if this feeling is psychological or if it has something to do with COVID-19.

faitswulff 6y ago
You should read the article on so called "long-haulers," by Ed Yong, a fantastic science writer: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-... > COVID-19 has existed for less than six months, and it is easy to forget how little we know about it. The standard view is that a minority of infected people, who are typically elderly or have preexisting health problems, end up in critical care, requiring oxygen or a ventilator. About 80 percent of infections, according to the World Health Organization, “are mild or asymptomatic,” and patients recover after two weeks, on average. Yet support groups on Slack and Facebook host thousands of people like LeClerc, who say they have been wrestling with serious COVID-19 symptoms for at least a month, if not two or three. Some call themselves “long-termers” or “long-haulers.” > I interviewed nine of them for this story, all of whom share commonalities. Most have never been admitted to an ICU or gone on a ventilator, so their cases technically count as “mild.” But their lives have nonetheless been flattened by relentless and rolling waves of symptoms that make it hard to concentrate, exercise, or perform simple physical tasks. Most are young. Most were previously fit and healthy. “It is mild relative to dying in a hospital, but this virus has ruined my life,” LeClerc said. “Even reading a book is challenging and exhausting. What small joys other people are experiencing in lockdown—yoga, bread baking—are beyond the realms of possibility for me.”
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- timr 6y ago
  That article is terrible. It's anecdotal, a biased sample from a group of people who self-identify as "long-haulers". If you conduct a survey of a group of anti-vaccination activists, I'm sure that a high percentage will tell you that vaccines gave their child autism. Moreover, this: "A quarter of respondents in the Body Politic survey have tested negative, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have COVID-19." Okay. I guess it doesn't mean that, but it means that you should be skeptical of the claims of causality.
  - partyboat1586 6y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be true though. Post viral fatigue has been a thing since before COVID it just never got any attention because it affected too few people.
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      I had idiopathic post viral hypersomnia in graduate school, from a bad respiratory infection. For more than entire semester, I could do nothing but sleep for 12+ hours a day. On one occasion, I slept through an entire day. I even fell asleep in the student union once with my laptop in front of me. Needless to say, it wasn't there when I woke up. No treatment was really able to help me. I was already on adderall, and, while it could keep me upright, I felt like a zombie the whole time. I ended up consulting a sleep neurologist, who basically said they could try "activating" antidepressants (I was already on one), or stimulants, which I was also already on. I don't know if modafinil was a thing yet, but I never heard them mention it. I thought my life was over. What could I even do with my life, if I always had to sleep 12-14+ hours a day? No doctor seemed to be able to do anything, there was no specific cause, and it's such a rare condition that most people don't know it exists. That, along with the stigma that comes with invisible disabilities (and, believe me, this certainly was disabling) almost made me want to give up. Then, I started getting better. I didn't know why I got better, but, at that point, I didn't care. I had my life back. All in all, it was an awful experience, which I wouldn't even wish on someone I hated.
      - timr 6y ago
        "Idiopathic" means that the cause is unknown. So when you say "idiopathic post-viral...from X", you're trying to imply something that cannot be implied. One may have happened after the other, but the "idiopathic" means "it's unlikely to have been caused by it". Not for nothing: I had idiopathic hypersomnia in graduate school, too -- it tends to happen when you're depressed from being in graduate school. As you were already on an antidepressant, and it was a suggested treatment for your illness, it sounds like this is a more probable cause than the one that you're trying to imply.
- dvt 6y ago
  This is an atrocious, fan-flaming, scientifically-inept article written to solely get clicks. It's peak fearmongering.
  - faitswulff 6y ago
    More of a Mayo Clinic person, eh? > COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
    - dvt 6y ago
      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351 N = 143 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm N = 270 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... N = 100 The rest of the studies cited by Mayo are all in the same range, feel free to check. Mayo Clinic or not, you're seriously going to draw conclusions over this?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - faitswulff 6y ago
        What, pray tell, does it take for something to be considered "scientific" in your mind? Those sample sizes are nothing to sneeze at for a brand new pandemic. And what conclusions do you think anyone is drawing other than "some percent of people are affected by covid for the long term?" Especially on the comments for a post detailing a significant percent of covid positive athletes being affected by myocarditis?
ArkVark 6y ago
It is definitely psychological. I was suffering daily after COVID when living still under lockdown. I moved to a non-lockdown country (where the strategy is now herd immunity) and felt better immediately, and now have zero lingering symptoms. Lockdown and Government restrictions are more suffocating than COVID.
- bettem 6y ago
  The effect of lockdowns on mental health is undoubtedly large, however I would hazard against ruling a very large number of people with numerous studies & epidemiologists behind them as purely psychological.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    The number of people studied is very small. It certainly isn't evidence based enough for a report on Cochrane.
    - bettem 6y ago
      Fair point, however the intent of my reply was to not dismiss something as psychological when there isn’t an extensive study on the topic.
- istorical 6y ago
  Perhaps your anecdata would be more convincing if you put "It _can_ definitely be psychological" because your claim sounds a bit absolute as is. I can easily offer my own experience with covid symptoms that is quite different than yours but I wouldn't make an "it is" statement because of it.
haubey 6y ago
It's interesting. I played a round of golf, on a golf cart, a day for a few days last week and by the end of the third day I was out of it. The other day I lugged an 80 pound window A/C up to my fourth floor walk up and it wiped me out for three days. But I can go for for a 5 mile walk and be pretty much fine.
- EarthIsHome 6y ago
  Thanks for your reply! I don't think I've been "wiped out" as you say. So maybe this is more psychological or something different. Or if I ever had it, it might have affected me differently. Who knows!
- partyboat1586 6y ago
  I'm surveying people with similar experiences to you. I have three questions if you don't mind answering them: Did you ever test positive for COVID-19? Do you lift weights or do strength training? How much protein do you consume on an average day?
  - haubey 6y ago
    Yes, a bunch of times. I was one of those people that kept testing positive for a few months after I got better. First tested positive in mid march, and then tested positive through May 1st at which point I just stopped doing it b/c everybody (read: doctors) thought I was fine. Finally tested negative mid July. No A normal amount? Probably a little more than normal? Like a turkey/ham sandwich or chicken caesar salad for lunch and then some entre for dinner? I'm not a vegetarian if that's what you're getting at

faitswulff 6y ago

You should read the article on so called "long-haulers," by Ed Yong, a fantastic science writer: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-... > COVID-19 has existed for less than six months, and it is easy to forget how little we know about it. The standard view is that a minority of infected people, who are typically elderly or have preexisting health problems, end up in critical care, requiring oxygen or a ventilator. About 80 percent of infections, according to the World Health Organization, “are mild or asymptomatic,” and patients recover after two weeks, on average. Yet support groups on Slack and Facebook host thousands of people like LeClerc, who say they have been wrestling with serious COVID-19 symptoms for at least a month, if not two or three. Some call themselves “long-termers” or “long-haulers.” > I interviewed nine of them for this story, all of whom share commonalities. Most have never been admitted to an ICU or gone on a ventilator, so their cases technically count as “mild.” But their lives have nonetheless been flattened by relentless and rolling waves of symptoms that make it hard to concentrate, exercise, or perform simple physical tasks. Most are young. Most were previously fit and healthy. “It is mild relative to dying in a hospital, but this virus has ruined my life,” LeClerc said. “Even reading a book is challenging and exhausting. What small joys other people are experiencing in lockdown—yoga, bread baking—are beyond the realms of possibility for me.”

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
timr 6y ago
That article is terrible. It's anecdotal, a biased sample from a group of people who self-identify as "long-haulers". If you conduct a survey of a group of anti-vaccination activists, I'm sure that a high percentage will tell you that vaccines gave their child autism. Moreover, this: "A quarter of respondents in the Body Politic survey have tested negative, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have COVID-19." Okay. I guess it doesn't mean that, but it means that you should be skeptical of the claims of causality.
- partyboat1586 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be true though. Post viral fatigue has been a thing since before COVID it just never got any attention because it affected too few people.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I had idiopathic post viral hypersomnia in graduate school, from a bad respiratory infection. For more than entire semester, I could do nothing but sleep for 12+ hours a day. On one occasion, I slept through an entire day. I even fell asleep in the student union once with my laptop in front of me. Needless to say, it wasn't there when I woke up. No treatment was really able to help me. I was already on adderall, and, while it could keep me upright, I felt like a zombie the whole time. I ended up consulting a sleep neurologist, who basically said they could try "activating" antidepressants (I was already on one), or stimulants, which I was also already on. I don't know if modafinil was a thing yet, but I never heard them mention it. I thought my life was over. What could I even do with my life, if I always had to sleep 12-14+ hours a day? No doctor seemed to be able to do anything, there was no specific cause, and it's such a rare condition that most people don't know it exists. That, along with the stigma that comes with invisible disabilities (and, believe me, this certainly was disabling) almost made me want to give up. Then, I started getting better. I didn't know why I got better, but, at that point, I didn't care. I had my life back. All in all, it was an awful experience, which I wouldn't even wish on someone I hated.
    - timr 6y ago
      "Idiopathic" means that the cause is unknown. So when you say "idiopathic post-viral...from X", you're trying to imply something that cannot be implied. One may have happened after the other, but the "idiopathic" means "it's unlikely to have been caused by it". Not for nothing: I had idiopathic hypersomnia in graduate school, too -- it tends to happen when you're depressed from being in graduate school. As you were already on an antidepressant, and it was a suggested treatment for your illness, it sounds like this is a more probable cause than the one that you're trying to imply.
dvt 6y ago
This is an atrocious, fan-flaming, scientifically-inept article written to solely get clicks. It's peak fearmongering.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  More of a Mayo Clinic person, eh? > COVID-19 symptoms can sometimes persist for months. The virus can damage the lungs, heart and brain, which increases the risk of long-term health problems. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
  - dvt 6y ago
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351 N = 143 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm N = 270 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... N = 100 The rest of the studies cited by Mayo are all in the same range, feel free to check. Mayo Clinic or not, you're seriously going to draw conclusions over this?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - faitswulff 6y ago
      What, pray tell, does it take for something to be considered "scientific" in your mind? Those sample sizes are nothing to sneeze at for a brand new pandemic. And what conclusions do you think anyone is drawing other than "some percent of people are affected by covid for the long term?" Especially on the comments for a post detailing a significant percent of covid positive athletes being affected by myocarditis?

ArkVark 6y ago

It is definitely psychological. I was suffering daily after COVID when living still under lockdown. I moved to a non-lockdown country (where the strategy is now herd immunity) and felt better immediately, and now have zero lingering symptoms. Lockdown and Government restrictions are more suffocating than COVID.

bettem 6y ago
The effect of lockdowns on mental health is undoubtedly large, however I would hazard against ruling a very large number of people with numerous studies & epidemiologists behind them as purely psychological.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  The number of people studied is very small. It certainly isn't evidence based enough for a report on Cochrane.
  - bettem 6y ago
    Fair point, however the intent of my reply was to not dismiss something as psychological when there isn’t an extensive study on the topic.
istorical 6y ago
Perhaps your anecdata would be more convincing if you put "It _can_ definitely be psychological" because your claim sounds a bit absolute as is. I can easily offer my own experience with covid symptoms that is quite different than yours but I wouldn't make an "it is" statement because of it.

haubey 6y ago

It's interesting. I played a round of golf, on a golf cart, a day for a few days last week and by the end of the third day I was out of it. The other day I lugged an 80 pound window A/C up to my fourth floor walk up and it wiped me out for three days. But I can go for for a 5 mile walk and be pretty much fine.

EarthIsHome 6y ago
Thanks for your reply! I don't think I've been "wiped out" as you say. So maybe this is more psychological or something different. Or if I ever had it, it might have affected me differently. Who knows!
partyboat1586 6y ago
I'm surveying people with similar experiences to you. I have three questions if you don't mind answering them: Did you ever test positive for COVID-19? Do you lift weights or do strength training? How much protein do you consume on an average day?
- haubey 6y ago
  Yes, a bunch of times. I was one of those people that kept testing positive for a few months after I got better. First tested positive in mid march, and then tested positive through May 1st at which point I just stopped doing it b/c everybody (read: doctors) thought I was fine. Finally tested negative mid July. No A normal amount? Probably a little more than normal? Like a turkey/ham sandwich or chicken caesar salad for lunch and then some entre for dinner? I'm not a vegetarian if that's what you're getting at