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Some of us don't have much power. I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom figh

Some of us don't have much power. I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom fighter, when he criticized China he ended up saying he was misinformed and he wasn't educated about the issue. He loves the money coming from China more than anything else. I want him to be reminded by this. He put his millions before human lives, just like some nazi collaborators did.

grugagag 6y ago
We all have power though very little but we do. Unfortunately it is scattered. The more people care about the issue the more visible it will become
- Darmody 6y ago
  That's why I don't shut up.
  - maskedinvader 6y ago
    Absolutely , I cannot agree more about using the little power we have to bring about change. I cannot be in the wrong side of history on this.
  - qiqing 6y ago
    Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?
    - grugagag 6y ago
      It depends on a lot of factors such as who and how many see your posts, how much you consume and how much you boycott etc. If you’re alone the impact is small but if others are starting to follow suit the number goes up fast and the voice becomes stronger. It is easy to think the impact is nill and that’s exactly how the opressor wants you to think, no wonder the divide and conquer is a strategy that works. But every movement starts off with a few who believe they make a difference and eventually it picks up a critical mass
      - qiqing 6y ago
        Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, and the systemic racism she experienced. The ally training skills I learned in the US were helpful. The more typical high-minded condescension, in contrast, tends to be counterproductive in my experience.
        jkhdigital 6y ago
        Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.
        grugagag 6y ago
        Trump is the wrath we get for electing a black president
        qiqing 6y ago
        I'm not drawing an equivalence. I'm talking about opening up a dialogue by finding common ground first.
        chub500 6y ago
        To avoid confusion it might be useful to define what systemic racism means today. The words have changed meaning slightly over the last 60 years. https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racism-and-institutional-racism-131152 https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racis...
    - Darmody 6y ago
      There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble. If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have a voice. The CCP owns the country, they make the rules, and economically they don't have the upper hand. That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        > That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them. ... and if that fails, take citizens of countries they're at cold war with as hostages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-canadians-with-alleged-espionage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-c...
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. This seems... economically confused. Billions flowing in from the West reflect the fact that China's internal economy is strong. If it fell apart, no money would flow in.
        jkhdigital 6y ago
        It means that the productivity of the Chinese economy, and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand. It is doubtful that China has enough domestic consumption demand to keep everyone gainfully employed if foreign demand dried up. But it’s hard to say what would actually happen.
        adventured 6y ago
mrpopo 6y ago
> I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. You can talk to your representatives about it. You can start actively boycotting Chinese-made products (not so easy, I know). You can donate to NGOs such as the UHRP (Uyghur Human Rights Project). You can follow them on Twitter. It's not like Lebron James will solve this either, so don't blame it on him.
- Darmody 6y ago
  I do boycott Chinese products. I can't boycott everything because sometimes there are no alternatives but I do what I can. Lebron can't solve this but what he can do is at least talk about it. One word and millions of people would know about it. Same thing happens with the NBA. They're very vocal about BLM but when it comes to HK...you can't even buy a t-shirt with "Free Honk Kong" on it.
  - jsiepkes 6y ago
    A positive view would be that you could say that even the NBA needs to "pick it's battles" and can't do all of BLM, HK, Uyghurs, etc. A more grim view would be that in the end companies will do what's best for them. Currently It's in the NBA's best interest to support BLM since it affects their base. HK, Uyghurs, etc. doesn't really affect them and fighting a battle for it doesn't help them in anyway.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    NBA players choose BLM for their protests and you choose China, I don’t see the problem. Blaming them for international policy seems a little naive.
    - jerf 6y ago
      It sounds like you may not be aware that the NBA has been actively and specifically blocking criticism of China. It sounds like currently they've reversed that policy on at least what custom jerseys they'll print, but only after a lot of pressure. The NBA is not neutrally "permitting" their players to protest things if they happen to want to, they have taken an extremely active role in what political actions are and are not allowed, and anti-China protests have consistently been on the "not allowed" side, by the league. The NBA, as an organization, is not a neutral; they have chosen sides.
gigatexal 6y ago
I don’t know if that’s fair to Lebron. The man does a ton of good off the court that I think he’s a good enough guy to not value money as much as you paint him for it. I mean why would he be so willing to give of his own wealth if he was so driven by money? What is more likely is that the NBA pressured its biggest star because they have ambitions in China bigger than Lebron.
ericmay 6y ago
> I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. You can do more. Write your representatives. Call their offices (both Democrat and Republican), and buy fewer Chinese products, even it costs more money. Please keep in mind I'm not criticizing you here, just saying you could literally do more if you wanted to. I do get annoyed with people who "complain online'. That's just a waste of time. Call your representatives. They will respond to thousands of phone calls from constituents saying "do X". For some reason we think Facebook is our democracy, not our elected representatives.
- lolsal 6y ago
  > I do get annoyed with people who "complain online'. That's just a waste of time. It's really not. I learned about this situation by reading complaints and passive comments online.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives. If 10,000 people read this article and got annoyed, and then we made 10,000 phone calls, things would happen. If 10 people pick up the phone... not so much.
    - lolsal 6y ago
      > Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives. I still disagree with your clarification. Even ten phone calls are better than zero.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > Call your representatives. They will respond to thousands of phone calls from constituents saying "do X". What do you say to people who don't really believe this? I don't think I'm the only one who looks at the political scene (and much of "reality" as it is projected into our brains through the media) and thinks it's largely theatre. Kayfabe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfMe0dsxk_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfMe0dsxk_Q Kanye and The End of Reality – Wisecrack Edition Oh sure, you can surely find discrete examples of where the system worked as advertised, but are these examples actually representative of the overall truth? I can't shake this feeling that if I (or most any other person from this forum who has worked on large, complicated projects with many interconnected moving parts) was tasked with managing the affairs of this planet, the organization and means of communication/documentation would not look anything at all like what we've seen with our very eyes, for many decades. How does a person sort out what is actually true anymore?
take_a_breath 6y ago
==He loves the money coming from China more than anything else. I want him to be reminded by this. He put his millions before human lives, just like some nazi collaborators did.== All of this could be said about our current President and his family. He has far more power than LeBron James, maybe we should hold him accountable?
- puranjay 6y ago
  To play devil's advocate: the west is now in a soft Cold War with China. Given China's opaqueness, any media report about China has to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially considering how the media has acted as the mouthpiece of the state in the past (most notably in the entire Iraq WMD fiasco). So while I certainly don't doubt that China is oppressing its minorities, I'm also loathe to believe every media report about it. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but very objectively, western media does not have a track record of being truthful when it comes to Cold War opponents.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    I don’t understand how this is playing devils advocate. How does it relate to what I said?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Who cares? Lebron James and yourself are both adults capable of taking stances and acting on them regardless the actions and behaviors of the president of the US.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Actually, in a strange way LeBron James has way more power than Trump in regards to cultural pressure that can result in change. Trump has been using this issue as an excuse to ramp up pressure in the south china sea among other things, but people don’t believe him to actually care.
econcon 6y ago
Most people like Lebron James aren't making choice between getting new "millions" vs "not getting them" They are making choice between getting new "millions" vs "losing all previous contracts" and going back to zero or negative.
ahoy 6y ago
"The real problem is that lebron james is a hypocrite" ok man
actuator 6y ago
No, you have power to actually influence at least people in your circle. At least on a personal level, you can start looking at the place of origin of products and be ready to pay more for an alternative. There is a subreddit where people will help you out with recommendations as well.
- jzig 6y ago
  Can you share the subreddit? I would be interested in trying to do this
  - actuator 6y ago
    https://old.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/ https://old.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/
vmception 6y ago
> People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom fighter, when he criticized China he ended up saying Or China is more powerful than you - or he - thought.
newyankee 6y ago
Even Islamic countries that should traditionally be sympathetic to the cause of Uighurs turn a blind eye to it e.g. even Pakistan does not mention it because of their close relationship to China. If Nations are scared you can imagine how difficult it will be for individuals, even if you may think they have a lot of power.

grugagag 6y ago

We all have power though very little but we do. Unfortunately it is scattered. The more people care about the issue the more visible it will become

Darmody 6y ago
That's why I don't shut up.
- maskedinvader 6y ago
  Absolutely , I cannot agree more about using the little power we have to bring about change. I cannot be in the wrong side of history on this.
- qiqing 6y ago
  Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?
  - grugagag 6y ago
    It depends on a lot of factors such as who and how many see your posts, how much you consume and how much you boycott etc. If you’re alone the impact is small but if others are starting to follow suit the number goes up fast and the voice becomes stronger. It is easy to think the impact is nill and that’s exactly how the opressor wants you to think, no wonder the divide and conquer is a strategy that works. But every movement starts off with a few who believe they make a difference and eventually it picks up a critical mass
    - qiqing 6y ago
      Let me contrast that with something: opening a dialogue outside of an echo chamber. For example, a woman of Han descent who had her purse snatched by a Uighur kid talked about feeling nervous and clutching her bag when she passed someone on the street. Instead of lecturing her about systemic problems as a first resort, I started by finding common ground: her experiences as a Chinese woman studying abroad in Japan, and the systemic racism she experienced. The ally training skills I learned in the US were helpful. The more typical high-minded condescension, in contrast, tends to be counterproductive in my experience.
      - jkhdigital 6y ago
        Yeah... I hear you and I think there’s a valid point here, but let’s not draw false equivalencies. Mass forced detention of entire ethnic groups is not comparable to systemic racism. One can argue that the US is systemically racist but we did elect a black president.
        grugagag 6y ago
        Trump is the wrath we get for electing a black president
        qiqing 6y ago
        I'm not drawing an equivalence. I'm talking about opening up a dialogue by finding common ground first.
        chub500 6y ago
        To avoid confusion it might be useful to define what systemic racism means today. The words have changed meaning slightly over the last 60 years. https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racism-and-institutional-racism-131152 https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-systemic-racis...
  - Darmody 6y ago
    There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble. If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have a voice. The CCP owns the country, they make the rules, and economically they don't have the upper hand. That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them. ... and if that fails, take citizens of countries they're at cold war with as hostages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-canadians-with-alleged-espionage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-two-detained-c...
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west. This seems... economically confused. Billions flowing in from the West reflect the fact that China's internal economy is strong. If it fell apart, no money would flow in.
      - jkhdigital 6y ago
        It means that the productivity of the Chinese economy, and thus the ability of the CCP to siphon off some of that for things like building mass detention facilities, is dependent upon foreign demand. It is doubtful that China has enough domestic consumption demand to keep everyone gainfully employed if foreign demand dried up. But it’s hard to say what would actually happen.
        adventured 6y ago

mrpopo 6y ago

> I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. You can talk to your representatives about it. You can start actively boycotting Chinese-made products (not so easy, I know). You can donate to NGOs such as the UHRP (Uyghur Human Rights Project). You can follow them on Twitter. It's not like Lebron James will solve this either, so don't blame it on him.

Darmody 6y ago
I do boycott Chinese products. I can't boycott everything because sometimes there are no alternatives but I do what I can. Lebron can't solve this but what he can do is at least talk about it. One word and millions of people would know about it. Same thing happens with the NBA. They're very vocal about BLM but when it comes to HK...you can't even buy a t-shirt with "Free Honk Kong" on it.
- jsiepkes 6y ago
  A positive view would be that you could say that even the NBA needs to "pick it's battles" and can't do all of BLM, HK, Uyghurs, etc. A more grim view would be that in the end companies will do what's best for them. Currently It's in the NBA's best interest to support BLM since it affects their base. HK, Uyghurs, etc. doesn't really affect them and fighting a battle for it doesn't help them in anyway.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  NBA players choose BLM for their protests and you choose China, I don’t see the problem. Blaming them for international policy seems a little naive.
  - jerf 6y ago
    It sounds like you may not be aware that the NBA has been actively and specifically blocking criticism of China. It sounds like currently they've reversed that policy on at least what custom jerseys they'll print, but only after a lot of pressure. The NBA is not neutrally "permitting" their players to protest things if they happen to want to, they have taken an extremely active role in what political actions are and are not allowed, and anti-China protests have consistently been on the "not allowed" side, by the league. The NBA, as an organization, is not a neutral; they have chosen sides.

gigatexal 6y ago

I don’t know if that’s fair to Lebron. The man does a ton of good off the court that I think he’s a good enough guy to not value money as much as you paint him for it. I mean why would he be so willing to give of his own wealth if he was so driven by money? What is more likely is that the NBA pressured its biggest star because they have ambitions in China bigger than Lebron.

ericmay 6y ago

> I denounced it online several times, that's all I can do. You can do more. Write your representatives. Call their offices (both Democrat and Republican), and buy fewer Chinese products, even it costs more money. Please keep in mind I'm not criticizing you here, just saying you could literally do more if you wanted to. I do get annoyed with people who "complain online'. That's just a waste of time. Call your representatives. They will respond to thousands of phone calls from constituents saying "do X". For some reason we think Facebook is our democracy, not our elected representatives.

lolsal 6y ago
> I do get annoyed with people who "complain online'. That's just a waste of time. It's really not. I learned about this situation by reading complaints and passive comments online.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives. If 10,000 people read this article and got annoyed, and then we made 10,000 phone calls, things would happen. If 10 people pick up the phone... not so much.
  - lolsal 6y ago
    > Let me clarify: I believe it's a waste of time if we're also not complaining to our elected representatives. I still disagree with your clarification. Even ten phone calls are better than zero.
mistermann 6y ago
> Call your representatives. They will respond to thousands of phone calls from constituents saying "do X". What do you say to people who don't really believe this? I don't think I'm the only one who looks at the political scene (and much of "reality" as it is projected into our brains through the media) and thinks it's largely theatre. Kayfabe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfMe0dsxk_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfMe0dsxk_Q Kanye and The End of Reality – Wisecrack Edition Oh sure, you can surely find discrete examples of where the system worked as advertised, but are these examples actually representative of the overall truth? I can't shake this feeling that if I (or most any other person from this forum who has worked on large, complicated projects with many interconnected moving parts) was tasked with managing the affairs of this planet, the organization and means of communication/documentation would not look anything at all like what we've seen with our very eyes, for many decades. How does a person sort out what is actually true anymore?

take_a_breath 6y ago

==He loves the money coming from China more than anything else. I want him to be reminded by this. He put his millions before human lives, just like some nazi collaborators did.== All of this could be said about our current President and his family. He has far more power than LeBron James, maybe we should hold him accountable?

puranjay 6y ago
To play devil's advocate: the west is now in a soft Cold War with China. Given China's opaqueness, any media report about China has to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially considering how the media has acted as the mouthpiece of the state in the past (most notably in the entire Iraq WMD fiasco). So while I certainly don't doubt that China is oppressing its minorities, I'm also loathe to believe every media report about it. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but very objectively, western media does not have a track record of being truthful when it comes to Cold War opponents.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  I don’t understand how this is playing devils advocate. How does it relate to what I said?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
vorpalhex 6y ago
Who cares? Lebron James and yourself are both adults capable of taking stances and acting on them regardless the actions and behaviors of the president of the US.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Actually, in a strange way LeBron James has way more power than Trump in regards to cultural pressure that can result in change. Trump has been using this issue as an excuse to ramp up pressure in the south china sea among other things, but people don’t believe him to actually care.

econcon 6y ago

Most people like Lebron James aren't making choice between getting new "millions" vs "not getting them" They are making choice between getting new "millions" vs "losing all previous contracts" and going back to zero or negative.

ahoy 6y ago

"The real problem is that lebron james is a hypocrite" ok man

actuator 6y ago

No, you have power to actually influence at least people in your circle. At least on a personal level, you can start looking at the place of origin of products and be ready to pay more for an alternative. There is a subreddit where people will help you out with recommendations as well.

jzig 6y ago
Can you share the subreddit? I would be interested in trying to do this
- actuator 6y ago
  https://old.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/ https://old.reddit.com/r/avoidchineseproducts/

vmception 6y ago

> People like Lebron James, who thinks of himself like a freedom fighter, when he criticized China he ended up saying Or China is more powerful than you - or he - thought.

newyankee 6y ago

Even Islamic countries that should traditionally be sympathetic to the cause of Uighurs turn a blind eye to it e.g. even Pakistan does not mention it because of their close relationship to China. If Nations are scared you can imagine how difficult it will be for individuals, even if you may think they have a lot of power.