10 ms·

It's funny how your comment immediately makes me want to buy it, because the description on the site with all these silly photos and such for some reason got me

• tyre 6y ago
  I had the same thought. Knowing we can develop software on top is delightful
• capableweb 6y ago
  Same here last time ReMarkable came up. Saw the marketing page and really liked the hardware and expected it to be locked down, so moved on to reading the comments. Bunch of comments describing how it's open, runs linux and you can basically just ssh into it and run stuff. Made a pre-order right there and then and now waiting for it. I think we're simply such a small user-base that they don't think to include it on their landing pages. Most people probably don't care. But since we're on HN, we most likely care to some degree.
  • amirhirsch 6y ago
    Same boat lol. Saw the open-source comments and decided to buy one so I could make a sheet-music reader that changes pages automatically using facial cues from an ESP32-CAM
    • chrisweekly 6y ago
      What a great idea! How can I learn if/when you build that music reader app?
    • semi-extrinsic 6y ago
      I'm slightly astonished (have been for a while) at the fact that no-one (as far as I know) have developed a Guitar Hero style e-ink sheet-music reader. Imagine how much easier you'd make life for kids learning how to play music! Software and hardware wise, it's got to be well within the realm of feasibility.
      • scoopdewoop 6y ago
        You should check out Rocksmith. Its guitar hero with real guitar, pretty cool stuff. I don't see how a scrolling format like guitar hero would fit the slow refresh rate of an e-ink display, but perhaps you imagine something different.
        • yayr 6y ago
          Absolutely love that toy, unfortunately they stopped producing DLCs for it some time ago to do something else... I wonder what that is.
          • NikolaeVarius 6y ago
            Custom DLC is still going strong
          • Zero_Negative 6y ago
            They are working on RockSmith 2, you don't know this from me.
            • codeofficer 6y ago
              I remember a couple years ago getting Rocksmith for my ps4 and absolutely loving it. The controller mappings were a little unnatural in places but I did reasonably well with reading their notation/tab. Fast forward to when I tried to pick it up again a few weeks ago ... I can't read their notation/tab for the life of me. It's so confusing. Need to rewire my brain somehow.
  • krick 6y ago
    That's why I'm saying I'm not sure about the average customer, so I'm not feeling comfortable assuming people responsible for sales strategy (who are obviously professional marketers) are bad at their job. But I seriously don't want to dismiss this thought. After all, are we "such a small user-base" that it doesn't matter? Maybe, but I don't know. We likely would be if they actually had customer base Apple has, but they surely don't. And given they don't have such a remarkable brand-recognition, it actually makes it kinda more likely that they are selling it to us, whether they like it or not. I mean, this thread here is the first time I've ever heard about them, so I'll probably be the first guy in the office that gets the tablet, and then if I'll like it some people who don't read HN will hear an endorsement. In fact, it wouldn't even be the first product introduced this way to numerous non-technical people I know (who now own one). And even if I'm mistaken and none of this matters, well, after all a sale is a sale.
    • jodrellblank 6y ago
      > I mean, this thread here is the first time I've ever heard about them, They have been on HN a lot[1][2], and one of the founders posted here on some of the threads. My understanding is that they couldn't reach all of the openness they were hoping for, and in recent times they've taken VC money and (I predict) that will affect version 2 negatively for hacker types. I recommend the Youtube channel "My Deep Guide", he uses Remarkable long term as a normal person (not trying to hack it) and has done several video reviews over the years about firmware changes, what he likes and dislikes; it's not a "great device thanks for the freebie, like and subscribe" hype channel, it's thoughtful and detailed: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1B04TSL2cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1B04TSL2cY (Looks like he's just done reviews of Remarkable version 2, I'll have to watch) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16321531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16321531 [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=remarkable%20tablet&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
    • TeMPOraL 6y ago
      It's not incompetence, it's most likely just resource prioritization. There's nothing in principle stopping companies (not just ReMarkable) from having a separate landing page / marketing copy targeted at the hacker audience. With a device like this, it would most likely have a positive ROI. Just not positive enough compared to other things the marketing team could be spending their time on.
  • asdff 6y ago
    I really think they should push this, because if you are in the market for an e ink notebook like this, you are probably a niche customer to begin with. Everyone else and their mother draws on an iPad. This is nerd hardware, and they really should lean into it with the marketing.
    • eequah9L 6y ago
      There are various types of nerds, and an "I like paper" nerd seems mostly orthogonal to an "I like hackability" nerd. I mean, _I_ am the right type of nerd to appreciate the hackability, and yet I only use mine to scribble notes and read papers.
  • ajuc 6y ago
    I think including such details in marketing would even detract from the "it's easy and intuitive for everybody" point they try to make.
• pre 6y ago
  Indeed. "All your work is instantly synced to the cloud" Ugh. Nope nope nope. But now maybe sounds like I could turn that off and just rsync the files to my Debian tower. That is more win.
  • ggrrhh_ta 6y ago
    My thoughts exactly
  • jbeard4 6y ago
    > But now maybe sounds like I could turn that off and just rsync the files to my Debian tower. Yes, I can confirm this. I have never connected my device to wifi. I backup my notes to my home server using rsync.
    • krick 6y ago
      You mean rsync via USB? Or can you rsync by WiFi without allowing it to send requests to their services?
      • jbeard4 6y ago
        > You mean rsync via USB? I mean rsync via USB (but over ssh protocol - the USB mounts as a network device, rather than as a disk drive). > Or can you rsync by WiFi without allowing it to send requests to their services? I have never connected the device to wifi, so I don't know about this.
        • solarkraft 6y ago
          While I haven't used this device, because it's just a standard Linux system, certainly.
      • pre 6y ago
        I don't own one of them, but I would surely be able to instruct my router to put it in jail like I can every other device. LAN-only.
• thallavajhula 6y ago
  HAHA it is funny indeed. Last time when someone posted a similar comment about reMarkable (the original edition) here on HN, I was immediately hooked. I checked out the tablet and was impressed by it. I immediately placed the order for reMarkable 2. Just waiting to get my hands on this device. I take down a ton of notes and I think this would be perfect for me.
• wenc 6y ago
  I think you hit on a good reflection there. I've half a foot in the consumer space and my intuition is that if consumer product marketing targeted their strategies at the HN crowd, they will likely have a small market share. Certain cognitive styles are over-represented in the HN comments section which, from my empirical observations, do not match that of the broader population. The glossy pictures are visually impactful and do matter to most people: it's not even the subject but the production values, which communicate either downmarket or premium. I have a sense that "lack of restrictiveness" is not something most users prioritize, as witnessed by Apple's phenomenal success. My daily driver is Linux (I've used Kubuntu for over a decade) yet I own Apple devices and am rarely bothered by things being locked down because for the most part, the constraints are tastefully picked (well based on my aesthetic they are -- others may disagree). I watch MKBHD reviews regularly and it's not lost on me that Android phones for instance are so much more cutting edge and unrestricted relative to Apple devices. (I've owned Android devices in the past and have to admit they're objectively better in many ways -- Google apps for instance are more responsive and have more features than their iOS counterparts). But I still find myself preferring the iPhone experience because everything feels right. p.s. I ordered a reMarkable 2 earlier this year, but canceled my order because I decided that an iPad Pro (for consumption) + fountain pen/paper (for scribbling) fit my habits better. No knock on the reMarkable -- from all the YouTube reviews I've seen, it seems like a solid device. It's just that from a social perspective, it's unlikely I'd use a reMarkable in a meeting room. It's still a touch too tech-y and liable to make others feel I'm not paying attention/being present (a sentiment which somehow pen-and-paper don't convey -- folks are ok with me jotting down notes with pen and paper. Don't know why. It's weirdly psychological.) p.p.s. it sounds like reMarkable might gain a few extra orders by including "dev-friendliness" as a benefit. Why not add it to the marketing material? (I remember when Apple laptops were marketed to creatives, but the dev crowd -- who weren't being marketed to -- jumped on board when OS X became the main OS).
  • lallysingh 6y ago
    For meetings I use a Neo smartpen, which syncs back to Evernote. It's a regular pen and paper experience, so nobody is offended.
  • pmontra 6y ago
• deleted 6y ago
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• rkagerer 6y ago
  Same here. Looks like great hardware and I even had a pre-order, but I canceled it in part over concern there wouldn't be much of a third party application ecosystem and I'd mainly be restricted to notetaking and viewing/annotating PDF's. I recognize for lots of people note-taking alone is enough to justify it; I just realized I'd personally get more utility out of an iPad or similar. If I'd seen the "open-source" pitch it might have enticed me to stay onboard.
• samtuke 6y ago
  Same here - the website led me to assume the software was all locked down, and forever restricted to reading two file formats.
• inamberclad 6y ago
  Ultimately the software matters little to the average consumer so long as it does what they want and looks nice. Us 'hackers' have the dual detriment of being cheap people and demanding on company resources. It's just more profitable to focus on the larger client base. That said, it may work well if they launch their own software sharing platform.
• aleksjess 6y ago
  It's pretty obvious, however I'm gonna say it anyway - they probably don't target people that are active here. They could add all of that, though thatd be disrupting their intended Apple-like presentation of the product.
• filmgirlcw 6y ago
  Yeah, I pre-ordered one because a friend has an rM1 and used a bunch of hacks and that was what made me interested. At the time (~18 months ago), I was uninterested in paying the money for one, but when the rM2 came out at pre-order for the lower price (the reMarkable 1 is now $100 less than the rM2) and with better battery/faster processor/USB-C, I pre-ordered. I'm in the second batch and because of delays, I won't get it until early October (they claim) but it's the hackability that sold me on it, rather than anything else. I have an 11" iPad Pro and Apple Pencil and a 2018 Kindle Oasis (second-gen is I guess the parlance), so I don't actually need something like this, but I want it. That said, I don't think they are marketing it wrong at all -- they might just not be marketing it to all potential audiences. This is definitely an enthusiast device with a niche audience -- people that want really a really good drawing/writing experience that is as similar to paper as possible. There are a number or e-Ink devices similar to this and most run Android, which has the advantage of opening it up to more consumer apps (Kindle, Kobo Reader, etc) but also tends to lead to a less ideal writing/drawing experience. Some of the people who really want that pen on paper experience are like you and I and are really intrigued by the open nature/hackability of the device but the vast majority really want something simple and task focused. If you look at the Reddit for the reMarkable and the community around YouTube/Facebook/etc, although there are plenty of people who are hacking on it, that's not the core audience at all. In fact, the original reMarkable was criticized a bit for not being intuitive enough, even though the ink performance was always excellent. Even now, the biggest complaints are about the lack of features (primarily an e-reader), even though this is very much a uni-task device. Small companies like this have limited marketing budgets so I don't think going after hacker enthusiast types at first is the right move -- especially when the people willing to spend $500 on an e-Ink notebook in the age of the iPad is fairly small. That said, I hope that the marketing can expand to the DIY/hacker crowd more after the rM2 is released because I do think that could attract some additional users and also help contribute to the ecosystem.
  • hebetude 6y ago
    They're spending a ton of Facebook. I wanted to buy one until the 500th ad that was presented to me. I think 1/2 the price of the device is marketing spend.
• solarkraft 6y ago
  > So I've got a feeling all these marketing people do advertising wrong somehow. I have a feeling the HN crowd is a rather unusual one :) High-quality normal user experience and a good power-user experience luckily aren't mutually exclusive at all (just appear together much too rarely).
  • productionx 6y ago
    `I have a feeling the HN crowd is a rather unusual one :)` unusual or unorthodox?
• teekert 6y ago
  Same here, but we are a super niche market, not even worth a couple of small letter on the landing page. I learned about that a lot as early adopter of products that inevitable had to switch to address a more mainsteam market and in the process completely alienate me. Examples are Pebble (I don't care about fitness, OI care about minimalism and battery life), bunq, a fintech "bank", went from nerdy minimalism, IT company with a banking license to a comapany that that integrated Instagram and Tree saving counter into the banking app. Another, less strong, example is OnePlus who lost me after the 3.
• Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Marketing in its current virulent incarnation is a scam, and front for wholesale population level surveillance. I've yet to see a convincing argument to the contrary. All a business needs to be successful is a good product, and word of mouth. Advertising gets people to buy stuff they don't need. Instead companies scrimp on the product and spend more on advertising. The sooner society finds a way to clothe, house and feed everyone the better all of us and our planet will be.
  • nick_kline 6y ago
    That seems naive. Very few products succeed without marketing. Only tesla, for example, in autos succeeds without much marketing. I'd never have heard about remarkable2 without current marketing around the v2.