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Mystery of interstellar visitor 'Oumuamua gets trickier
- bluedays 6y agoThis is pretty cool. I am constantly looking at current events and thinking to myself "what if aliens were watching this?". I feel like it sorta puts things in perspective for me. Seeing that this might be a possibility is sorta thrilling.
- tremon 6y agoIf you think this is cool, you should definitely buy the book this advert is about.
- pp19dd 6y agoFurther we look into the void, further we see how vast it is in length of time and breadth of space. And in that void we're a tiny speck of dust on an already tiny speck of dust. For me, looking at zoomable deep space telescope imagery, it's a 50/50 proposition, either we have the only miracle of life in existence, or it's prolific. Deepest visible light image of 10,000 galaxies - https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0406a/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0406a/zoomable/ NGC 1866 star cluster - https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1847a/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1847a/zoomable/ Runaway galaxy UGC 10214 with thousands of galaxies in backdrop - https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0206a/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0206a/zoomable/ Abell 2218, a rich glaxy cluster composed of thousands of galaxies - https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0814a/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic0814a/zoomable/ Gordo ("The Fat One") - enormous galaxy cluster with mass of three million billion Suns - https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1802a/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/potw1802a/zoomable/ Gallery of more of these at https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/archive/zoomable/ https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/archive/zoomable/ - follow a delightful thumbnail, then desperately seek the tiny buried zoomable links on subsequent pages.
- zaroth 6y agoThe incomprehensible vastness in terms both time and space, combined with our own flittering existence, mean that even a universe utterly teeming with life would never see two advanced civilizations actually cross paths.
- emteycz 6y agoCould you elaborate? To me that seems tobe too anthropocentric thinking.
- api 6y agoAll thinking about aliens is anthropocentric. We have a sample size of one.
- eeegnu 6y agoVon Neumann self replicating probes would make contact between two very distant civilisations eventually happen. Though that may occur after both civilisations are gone and all that remains are the programmed probes creating relay stations to send out more of themselves.
- perl4ever 6y ago>it's a 50/50 proposition, either we have the only miracle of life in existence, or it's prolific. This seems like a false dichotomy. There could be 200 billion planets with life in the universe...but only about one per galaxy. Someone did a probabilistic analysis of the Drake equation, and found out that indeed, given the known facts (that we don't see any life yet, how life appears to have developed on earth) that a substantial likelihood exists that the density of life is right in the range where there are many instances but we will never see one. It's sad to never get closure, but it's irrational to deny it's a possibility.
- rendall 6y ago"what if aliens were watching this?" There is an archetype of the Mysterious Stranger, an innocent, naive observer of our culture, who finds us incomprehensible because we are Just Terrible. We make war, pollute, enslave, etc, while this archetype is pure. Examples: K-Pax, Powder, Dostoyevski's The Idiot, Crocodile Dundee all have elements of this archetype The thing is, the only reason this archetype has any meaning to us is because this archetype shares our values. That character is always just the author, putting words in the mouth of a character who could not exist in reality. There is no Mysterious Stranger. We can expect actual aliens, ones who evolved in a different ecosystem, would have no opinion about what we do. Not from our value system anyway. Less "these poor hooman creatures actually kill each other, how primitive!" and more ... well, something more incomprehensible to us
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- atomi 6y agoYour moral objectivity is concerning.
- twicetwice 6y agoDid you mean relativity? It seems to me that the comment does imply moral relativity is true.
- rendall 6y agoWe can no more expect aliens to hold our moral values than we would expect bats or bees to do
- Izkata 6y ago> We can expect actual aliens, ones who evolved in a different ecosystem, would have no opinion about what we do. Not from our value system anyway. Less "these poor hooman creatures actually kill each other, how primitive!" and more ... well, something more incomprehensible to us TVTropes has a whole section called "Blue-and-Orange Morality" for this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMor...
- czzr 6y agoSummary: hydrogen iceberg theory questioned as the expected lifespan of a hydrogen iceberg is likely too short, given the distance Oumuamua would have had to travel.
- waynecochran 6y agoYou forgot about the aliens.
- rosstex 6y agoYou have failed to account for the fact that we live in a simulation.
- dogma1138 6y agoBackground sprite object and a physics engine bug, can I haz noble prize now?
- throwaw4y-plate 6y agoYou stop that, no fun allowed!
- TriNetra 6y agoOr, we're just a projection in a dream of the all-pervading cosmic consciousness.
- oh_sigh 6y agoIt's either aliens, or our estimations of hydrogen iceberg ages is a little off.
- elorant 6y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204323
- henriquemaia 6y agoI follow the What da Math[0] channel on YouTube to keep up with the latest news on cosmology. I highly recommend it. Very thorough and with daily updates. [0] https://youtube.com/user/whatdamath https://youtube.com/user/whatdamath
- sandworm101 6y agoIf we put half the energy we use up arguing about Oumuamua into detecting more interstellar objects we would have the data to end this debate. I'm a fan of the pragmatic mathematical approach. This was the first thing detected. The chances that the first result is also any sort of outlier are very slim. Detect and track some more of these objects. I'd bet good money that Oumuamua's motion is very explainable once we get some better data from other, similar, objects.
- themgt 6y ago> If we put half the energy we use up arguing about Oumuamua into detecting more interstellar objects we would have the data to end this debate This HN comment was just the motivation I needed to get off my computer and rededicate myself to polishing eighteen 1.32m gold-plated beryllium hexagonal mirror segments.
- ddingus 6y agoWhat is used, and how long does doing that take?
- AlexCoventry 6y agoI think it was sarcasm.
- duck2 6y agoStill interesting what would be used to polish a gold plated beryllium mirror. For instance, looks like they clean it by spraying CO2 snow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_cleaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_cleaning
- ddingus 6y agoYeah, I took a gamble. Just looked at the reference you dropped. Thanks, that is an interesting little rabbit hole.
- person_of_color 6y agoI don't get it. Why don't we image this thing directly?
- dboreham 6y agoIt gone.
- craigching 6y agoWe have! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua But it’s small and moving away from us fast. We couldn’t build anything in time that could catch up to it and image it closer.
- jacobush 6y agoPolitically no. When we first saw it, technically maybe yes. In an all stops pulled scenario, an improvised rocket could have been sent and at last had a fly-by look. Now... doubtful it could be done at all.
- avian 6y ago> We couldn’t build anything We could, but we didn’t. https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03155 https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.03155
- person_of_color 6y agoInteresting. The trajectory of O'uamuamua seems almost.. designed to scout the Sun's habitable zone. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Oumuamua-solar_system-ecliptic-normals.png/1024px-Oumuamua-solar_system-ecliptic-normals.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Ou...
- postalrat 6y agoI think the theory is that it wasn't really moving relative to the sun and kinda just fell in.
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- ekimekim 6y ago> Asked if there is a clear leading candidate explanation for 'Oumuamua's acceleration, Loeb referred Live Science to a not-yet-released book he authored called "Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth," due for publication in January. I don't know enough about the science to have an informed opinion, but it seems to me that if the main skeptic is also selling a book based in their exciting alternate theory, that's kinda a huge red flag.
- sandworm101 6y agoFirst sign? The first was probably the irrigation canals spotted on mars. Then repeating radio signals. The face on mars. Tabby's star. Each had their day as the first sign. The first real detection won't be some slight variance that we debate for years but solid evidence. If Oumuamua was a triangle, that would be solid evidence. It isn't aliens until it is.
- sdenton4 6y agoWell, even a 'giant triangle' may still not be enough... There is a giant hexagon on Saturn, after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn%27s_hexagon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn%27s_hexagon
- Izkata 6y agoDown in the explanations, a triangle: > Similar regular shapes were created in the laboratory when a circular tank of liquid was rotated at different speeds at its centre and periphery. The most common shape was six sided, but shapes with three to eight sides were also produced.
- mcculley 6y agoNatural processes can make lots of structures that look artificial. See Giant's Causeway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant%27s_Causeway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant%27s_Causeway
- lowdose 6y agoTo start playing aliens throw us a snowball. What would have happend when Oumuamua would hit our planet?
- extropy 6y agoIf it was composed of solid hydrogen then very little. It would evaporate at slightest touch of a planets atmosphere. Maybe even bounce off it. For solid hydrogen any planet with atmosphere is like a ball of hot molten lava for a snowball. Edit: I was half expecting there to be a video of throwing snowballs into lava, Internet does not have it all, yet.
- salawat 6y agoSounds like something to add to the bucket list.
- historyremade 6y agoWhen the US Gov Officially released a video, why hath talk about Oumua?
- ReptileMan 6y agoAnd on far-off Earth, Dr. Carlisle Perera had as yet told no one how he had wakened from a restless sleep with the message from his subconscious still echoing in his brain: The Ramans do everything in threes. We just have to hope there is at least one more
- IAmGraydon 6y agoRead the last sentence of the article. Bias warps perception. This shouldn't even be posted here.
- happytoexplain 6y ago>Asked if there is a clear leading candidate explanation for 'Oumuamua's acceleration, Loeb referred Live Science to a not-yet-released book he authored called "Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth," due for publication in January. I don't understand - is it unexpected that the person forming an argument for the alien hypothesis has written a book about it? That's not usually what people mean when they say "bias", and it's even further from being a good reason that the entire article "shouldn't be posted here". Or are you just making the assumption that the book's dumb "clickbaity" title must mean the author is full of shit?
- datameta 6y agoIt seems obvious to me that if one intends to make money from a theory it is in their best interest to champion said theory even in the face of conflicting research and alternate explanations.
- teh_klev 6y ago> This shouldn't even be posted here. From the HN Guidelines: "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Also don't judge a book by its title. Until you've read the book then you can't comment on whether there's a bias in play.
- _def 6y agoI'm currently watching the Alien movies. Maybe it's better that we are "alone" haha
- BLKNSLVR 6y agoAlien 3 is an underrated, much maligned, masterpiece.
- kentonv 6y agoMy pet theory (which is not intended to be taken too seriously) is that it is indeed a discarded light sail, and that light sail in particular was used to transport a Von Neumann probe which detached at some point after the object entered our solar system but before we first observed it. This detachment, in addition to leaving the sail tumbling, would have changed its trajectory, meaning our estimation of which direction the object originally came from is incorrect. In any case, the probe is now busy replicating, perhaps on the surface of Mercury. In a few years an army of robots will launch from there and invade the rest of the solar system! Realistically, though, it's too much of a coincidence that such a probe would first arrive so soon after we gained the ability to conceive of it.
- knob 6y agoThat reminds me of the books We Are Legion, We Are Bob. I really enjoyed those!
- bengale 6y agoBook 4 is on preorder now, drops in September.
- jameshart 6y agoWhich forces the logical conclusion that this isn't the first such probe, obviously.
- kentonv 6y agoThat could only be true if they are intentionally hiding from us, rather than replicating and harvesting the solar system as fast as they can. But personally I have a hard time believing that hyper-intelligent devices would care about avoiding detection by lowly biological organisms like us.
- badrabbit 6y agoThey?
- m3kw9 6y agoWe all need some more excitement in life, this unexpected piece of rock provides exactly that
- sulam 6y agoThe subhead is "Aliens? Or a chunk of solid hydrogen? Which idea makes less sense?" The better version would be: "Journalism? Or Clickbait? Which idea makes less sense?" "Scientific American" indeed.
- Gibbon1 6y agoI think it's extremely low density collection of dust particles held together by electrostatic forces. AKA a cosmic dust bunny.
- mirekrusin 6y agoMaybe interesting idea for long distance engine, worth exploring.
- ssrs 6y ago2020. 'nuff said.
- tempsolution 6y agoReally? They are so hellbent on proving alien life that they take anything huh... And that from a Harvard professor. Great. So what do we have here. Some cigar shaped object, rotating around its own axis and accelerating somehow. I know, this must be an "advanced" alien space ship. Or it could be just some debris from a collision from god knows where. And that crap is now heating up while approaching our solar system and you know, frozen stuff starts to evaporate and accelerating this object. I still find it fascinating how even professors who should know better, just pull these crazy ideas out of their hat. Usually the simple explanation is the right one, and given that humans have no visibility into space whatsoever, it is kinda interesting to come up with theories like that. They have no clue where this thing came from, but make grand assumptions about how it must have behaved in the past.
- jcims 6y agoI feel we’ll be visiting it in a couple hundred years.
- novalis78 6y ago2020 isn't quite over yet
- sidcool 6y agoI have a strong belief that we will establish first contact by 2040.
- rbanffy 6y agoCan't we build a probe that can reach it? What's the fastest we can launch a ton of equipment in Oumuamua's direction?
- aetherson 6y agoNo, it's long gone.
- rbanffy 6y agoIt's currently traveling at about half the speed of New Horizons, but on a highly inclined plane. The delta-v from Earth seems to be around 60 km/s.
- misanthropian00 6y agoA nuclear powered probe could catch it assuming of course that it continues on a passive trajectory and doesn't change course. Obviously the longer we wait the harder it will get though.
- PopePompus 6y agoAnytime you see an astronomy article in the popular press that sounds a bit flaky, you can bet Avi Loeb's name will appear in it.
- misanthropian00 6y agoIs he the new Carl Sagan?
- thesizeofa 6y agoI suppose they need to drive traffic on “scientific”american by either flouting aliens, mysteries, or objects the size of several thousands football fields or washing machines. There is nothing alien about this space object other than its geological origin.
- kristianp 6y agoWhy does it have to be a hydrogen snowball? Because no tail was detected that would have indicated a dirty methane-etc snowball? What about an stony asteroid-like object?
- petascale 6y agoQuoting the article: "While a few other substances (like solid neon) could potentially explain the coma-free acceleration, hydrogen was the best match for the data." It doesn't have to be hydrogen. But to explain acceleration from solar heating it does need outgassing, and the outgassing has to be in a form that we can't detect (no comet tail). Stone won't have much (or any) of that.
- ekianjo 6y ago> Asked if there is a clear leading candidate explanation for 'Oumuamua's acceleration, Loeb referred Live Science to a not-yet-released book he authored called "Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth," due for publication in January. Oh this is an article without substance just to promote a book?
- 8bitsrule 6y agoOK, suppose as proposed that the H2 in an object couldn't survive the journey. What makes us certain that Oumu is interstellar? Haven't seen that convincing argument (in human-readable form). Voyagers I and II are leaving the solar system; they got the kinetic energy to do that. I'm not convinced that all plausible histories for that happening within the SS without human assistance have been explored. As for the makeup of the object ... that will remain hypothetical. Maybe if we'd seen it sooner ...
- dodobirdlord 6y agoAre you suggesting that Oumu was some sort of Oort cloud object that was disturbed into a hyperbolic trajectory? That seems a lot less likely than Oumu originating outside of the sun's gravitational influence.
- lmilcin 6y agoWell, if it was hydrogen iceberg it would not only accelerate when leaving Sol system, it would also decelerate when closing in.
- sliken 6y agoRight, but we didn't notice it till to late.
- dvh1990 6y agoIt could be a probe that scans solar systems. I like that idea.
- mirekrusin 6y agoPersonally I find it suspicious for the first alien object detected to be of a shape of standard human poo.