6 ms·

California has proven itself again and again to be really good at centrally planning the economic activities of individuals so I think this will work out pretty

California has proven itself again and again to be really good at centrally planning the economic activities of individuals so I think this will work out pretty well in the end.

dcow 6y ago
This is why I’m leaving California.
georgeecollins 6y ago
That is why the California economy is collapsing. /s Everybody likes to complain about California. When I was born here it was about 15m people. Now its 40m. If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People have been predicting California's decline my entire life and the real problem is it can't handle the growth. Also, California has been sucking up employing the young and of mid-west and south for a century. Now those states get mad when "Californians" move to places like Austin. Where do you think they came from originally?
- saas_sam 6y ago
  Do you have a similar "love it or leave it" attitude when people complain about America? Not very Californian of you.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    Unlike international immigration, US inter-state immigration is comparatively quite simple and built-in as a feature.
  - georgeecollins 6y ago
    That's a good point. I think immigration is great for the country. And I never mind it my neighbors come from the mid-west or from Central America or wherever. I just get sick of people bashing California. It outgrows the rest of the country at an amazing rate, spawns world beating companies, and then people say it is socialist.
    - forrestthewoods 6y ago
      California also has the highest poverty rate in the country when you adjust for cost of living. The successes of people within a state might be because the state. Or it might be despite the state. I think a lot of California’s success is despite the state’s actions or policies. Reasonable minds can disagree.
      - pm90 6y ago
        Nah. CA funds healthcare, environmental laws, a great public university system, CCPA etc and in general enacts many pro-people laws. Many of these are then enacted nationally. So its disingenuous to characterize the state as obstructing progress when its clearly done the opposite. The comparison I like to make is with TX. If Texas was even moderately liberal/centrist and enacted commonsense policies (Medicaid expansion, State taxes to fund healthcare education etc) it would do a LOT better. Now, Texas HAS been successful despite its Government doing nothing/actively getting in the way.
        forrestthewoods 6y ago
        > So its disingenuous to characterize the state as obstructing progress when its clearly done the opposite. If by progress you mean increase poverty then we agree. Otherwise I didn’t talk about “progress” one way or another. > If Texas was even moderately liberal/centrist and enacted commonsense policies (Medicaid expansion, State taxes to fund healthcare education etc) it would do a LOT better. Maybe. Or maybe Texas would do worse and their poverty rate would grow to match California! California is able to pass all kinds of bills and spend all kinds of money because it is a very very wealthy state. Did California policies directly cause that wealth or is Hollywood + Silicon Valley a matter of luck? Or perhaps out of California’s thousands of policies only a couple (such as non-compete) had a significant influence on their economic bounty.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  The "liberal states bad" trope has popped up on conservative media in the last year or so, so you'll see a lot more of it on places like HN.
  - dumbfoundded 6y ago
    Yeah, pretty much all of the best state economies are extremely liberal (1). I think the anti-tax sentiment on HN is from people who make a lot of money and then realize they have to pay taxes. They attribute their success entirely to themselves and then whine about giving anything back to the environment that enabled them. California certainly has giant problems but don't let it distract you from the big picture. (1) https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy
    - darkengine 6y ago
      I'd like to see the p-value on states' political lean vs the size of their economy. Looking at the top 10 state economies on your list, 3 are swing states and 3 are red states, leaving only 4 (far from "pretty much all") as blue states. Even looking 10 states further down, into the top 20, adds 5 red states, 3 swing states, and only 2 blue states.
      - dumbfoundded 6y ago
        Your framing of the list is more than a bit disingenuous. 4/5 of the top economies are blue. 6/10 are blue, 1/10 is a swing state, and 3/10 are red (1). When you dive a bit deeper, you can also see that all 3 red states border much bigger and richer blue states (Utah -> Colorado, Idaho -> Washington/Oregon, Arizona -> California). Perhaps a better way is to break it down by district (2). If you look at the house of representatives and sum up the GDP by party, democrats account for ~$10T and republicans account for ~$6T. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states (2) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/charts-democrats-represent-modern-economy-republicans-left-behind.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/charts-democrats-represent-m...
- gotoeleven 6y ago
  If California had the weather of South Dakota no one would live there. California is the state version of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.
  - dumbfoundded 6y ago
    If Texas had California's oil, no one would live there.
    - georgeecollins 6y ago
      I think we should not talk about regions of the country like they are sports teams that we root for or against. Texas is very nice with lots of nice people California is very nice with lots of nice people.
      - dumbfoundded 6y ago
        I wish it could be cordial but that time is over. The very nice people of Texas are supporting a traitor inviting Russian interference, destroying a constitutionally provisioned mail service, and actively overseeing one of the largest wealth transfers from poor to rich in the history of the US. 58K Americans died in Vietnam. More than twice that have died unnecessarily due to Covid-19 due to purely political reasons. Situations of this gravity force us to dispose of the niceties.
        dcow 6y ago
        I find it hard to blame Trump solely for the fact that capitalism has gloriously failed to provide anything in way of an adequate response to a global pandemic. And our government for longer than trump has been captured by our economy. A statement like "more than twice have died unnecessarily due to covid" is rather hard to take seriously. As if there was something reactionary anybody could have done to prevent _all_ the covid deaths.
    - rattray 6y ago
      Huh? Texas and California both have high quality of life, and also both have large amounts of oil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industr... Not sure what you're trying to say here.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  > If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People are, by the millions.
  - georgeecollins 6y ago
    Certainly! My whole life it has gotten more expensive and lots of people can't afford it. That's not different than New York City or London. But unlike many other states, the population of California has not actually gone down (see below). Maybe it will, but why is that a problem when traffic and housing costs are such an issue? https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=population+of+california https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=populat...
- mlindner 6y ago
  When California had 15m, most of the controls in place now did not yet exist.
ur-whale 6y ago
It does sound like sarcasm, and I certainly hope it is.
Wohlf 6y ago
California is so well managed the state never has issues with bare essentials like power, water, or housing.
mcguire 6y ago
True. That's why nobody wants to live there.
mlindner 6y ago
You forgot to add the /s, but I guess it's obvious enough. This will definitely not turn out well for individuals living in California.

California has proven itself again and again to be really good at centrally planning the economic activities of individuals so I think this will work out pretty well in the end.

dcow 6y ago

This is why I’m leaving California.

georgeecollins 6y ago

That is why the California economy is collapsing. /s Everybody likes to complain about California. When I was born here it was about 15m people. Now its 40m. If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People have been predicting California's decline my entire life and the real problem is it can't handle the growth. Also, California has been sucking up employing the young and of mid-west and south for a century. Now those states get mad when "Californians" move to places like Austin. Where do you think they came from originally?

saas_sam 6y ago
Do you have a similar "love it or leave it" attitude when people complain about America? Not very Californian of you.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  Unlike international immigration, US inter-state immigration is comparatively quite simple and built-in as a feature.
- georgeecollins 6y ago
  That's a good point. I think immigration is great for the country. And I never mind it my neighbors come from the mid-west or from Central America or wherever. I just get sick of people bashing California. It outgrows the rest of the country at an amazing rate, spawns world beating companies, and then people say it is socialist.
  - forrestthewoods 6y ago
    California also has the highest poverty rate in the country when you adjust for cost of living. The successes of people within a state might be because the state. Or it might be despite the state. I think a lot of California’s success is despite the state’s actions or policies. Reasonable minds can disagree.
    - pm90 6y ago
      Nah. CA funds healthcare, environmental laws, a great public university system, CCPA etc and in general enacts many pro-people laws. Many of these are then enacted nationally. So its disingenuous to characterize the state as obstructing progress when its clearly done the opposite. The comparison I like to make is with TX. If Texas was even moderately liberal/centrist and enacted commonsense policies (Medicaid expansion, State taxes to fund healthcare education etc) it would do a LOT better. Now, Texas HAS been successful despite its Government doing nothing/actively getting in the way.
      - forrestthewoods 6y ago
        > So its disingenuous to characterize the state as obstructing progress when its clearly done the opposite. If by progress you mean increase poverty then we agree. Otherwise I didn’t talk about “progress” one way or another. > If Texas was even moderately liberal/centrist and enacted commonsense policies (Medicaid expansion, State taxes to fund healthcare education etc) it would do a LOT better. Maybe. Or maybe Texas would do worse and their poverty rate would grow to match California! California is able to pass all kinds of bills and spend all kinds of money because it is a very very wealthy state. Did California policies directly cause that wealth or is Hollywood + Silicon Valley a matter of luck? Or perhaps out of California’s thousands of policies only a couple (such as non-compete) had a significant influence on their economic bounty.
ciarannolan 6y ago
The "liberal states bad" trope has popped up on conservative media in the last year or so, so you'll see a lot more of it on places like HN.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  Yeah, pretty much all of the best state economies are extremely liberal (1). I think the anti-tax sentiment on HN is from people who make a lot of money and then realize they have to pay taxes. They attribute their success entirely to themselves and then whine about giving anything back to the environment that enabled them. California certainly has giant problems but don't let it distract you from the big picture. (1) https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy
  - darkengine 6y ago
    I'd like to see the p-value on states' political lean vs the size of their economy. Looking at the top 10 state economies on your list, 3 are swing states and 3 are red states, leaving only 4 (far from "pretty much all") as blue states. Even looking 10 states further down, into the top 20, adds 5 red states, 3 swing states, and only 2 blue states.
    - dumbfoundded 6y ago
      Your framing of the list is more than a bit disingenuous. 4/5 of the top economies are blue. 6/10 are blue, 1/10 is a swing state, and 3/10 are red (1). When you dive a bit deeper, you can also see that all 3 red states border much bigger and richer blue states (Utah -> Colorado, Idaho -> Washington/Oregon, Arizona -> California). Perhaps a better way is to break it down by district (2). If you look at the house of representatives and sum up the GDP by party, democrats account for ~$10T and republicans account for ~$6T. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states (2) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/charts-democrats-represent-modern-economy-republicans-left-behind.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/15/charts-democrats-represent-m...
gotoeleven 6y ago
If California had the weather of South Dakota no one would live there. California is the state version of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  If Texas had California's oil, no one would live there.
  - georgeecollins 6y ago
    I think we should not talk about regions of the country like they are sports teams that we root for or against. Texas is very nice with lots of nice people California is very nice with lots of nice people.
    - dumbfoundded 6y ago
      I wish it could be cordial but that time is over. The very nice people of Texas are supporting a traitor inviting Russian interference, destroying a constitutionally provisioned mail service, and actively overseeing one of the largest wealth transfers from poor to rich in the history of the US. 58K Americans died in Vietnam. More than twice that have died unnecessarily due to Covid-19 due to purely political reasons. Situations of this gravity force us to dispose of the niceties.
      - dcow 6y ago
        I find it hard to blame Trump solely for the fact that capitalism has gloriously failed to provide anything in way of an adequate response to a global pandemic. And our government for longer than trump has been captured by our economy. A statement like "more than twice have died unnecessarily due to covid" is rather hard to take seriously. As if there was something reactionary anybody could have done to prevent _all_ the covid deaths.
  - rattray 6y ago
    Huh? Texas and California both have high quality of life, and also both have large amounts of oil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industr... Not sure what you're trying to say here.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
> If you are unhappy, please leave to a lower cost, lower tax state. People are, by the millions.
- georgeecollins 6y ago
  Certainly! My whole life it has gotten more expensive and lots of people can't afford it. That's not different than New York City or London. But unlike many other states, the population of California has not actually gone down (see below). Maybe it will, but why is that a problem when traffic and housing costs are such an issue? https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=population+of+california https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=populat...
mlindner 6y ago
When California had 15m, most of the controls in place now did not yet exist.

ur-whale 6y ago

It does sound like sarcasm, and I certainly hope it is.

Wohlf 6y ago

California is so well managed the state never has issues with bare essentials like power, water, or housing.

mcguire 6y ago

True. That's why nobody wants to live there.

mlindner 6y ago

You forgot to add the /s, but I guess it's obvious enough. This will definitely not turn out well for individuals living in California.