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I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsi
by supernova87a 6y ago
I remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country).
As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with.
I mean, of course it depends on the level of detail you're dealing with and who exactly you're associating with. But for me, a general observer, Russia certainly seems to have gotten a history of doing and being the source of shady things.
Even aside from that, and this is probably skewed by the history books focusing on the oddest parts of history -- Russia always reads like an odd, outlier place in history. Or maybe it's the Russian literature. Always something strange, or depressing going on there.
What's up with that?
- adamnemecek 6y agoI imagine the geographic environment has something to do with it.
- grisha 6y agoLike, lots of resources and consequently failure to move from extensive to intensive growth mindset?
- adamnemecek 6y agoNo, just bleak, cold, depressing, vast spaces that make you feel meaningless.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoTheir history is part European and part Asian. They have history in both continents and cultures. They've always been familiar yet different.
- shuntress 6y agoI think it probably seems like an outlier from a euro-centric (in a more literal sense, not in the pejorative sense) point-of-view because it is, in general, close enough to European cultures to be similar but distant enough to be distinct. Whereas other cultures/histories may be easier to bucket as "clearly distinct" and therefor not outliers.
- virtue3 6y ago"uncanny valley" of euro-centrism? haha.
- vogre 6y agoThere always were a lot of propaganda involved since forever. Even now Russia is demonised in Western Media, mostly quite unfair.
- leokennis 6y agoCan you give an example where Russia is portrayed unfairly?
- bredren 6y agoI too am interested in examples. Typically, instead I see straw man “western governments do bad things too” to deflect.
- vogre 6y agoYou may start with this article https://medium.com/@dominicbasulto/russophobia-and-the-dark-art-of-making-an-anti-russian-magazine-cover-94b11e32d53f https://medium.com/@dominicbasulto/russophobia-and-the-dark-... It has some great images, especially in the final part.
- gowld 6y agoThat's negative portrayal of a violent corrupt dictatorship.
- vogre 6y agoIt started long before Putin and long before communists.
- avmich 6y agoBut things changed - Russia is much more known - while something remained the same - perception of the threat. Only now there are causes for that, so the article isn't accurate, portraying West as being "unnaturally" negative to Russia. West is negative for specific reasons, something which the article fails to address.
- boo_boo 6y agoWoah... it's almost as if Russia has been the target of western propaganda ever since the establishment of the Soviet Union. What's up with that?
- ibobev 6y agoYou are wrong. The Russia has been a target of the western propaganda ever since the Great Schism[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism
- frank2 6y agoI was skeptical that Russia was even influenced much by the Eastern Orthodox Church before the Great Schism, but I looked it up and found that it was: before the Great Schism, the Rus tried to invade Byzantium, which increased trade and cultural exchanges, and an important Rus ruler, Vladimir, converted to Orthodox Christianity.
- thrwway34 6y agoYeah, attacking all their neighbors, conspiring against rest of them, sending assassins across the globe... What's wrong with that, eh?
- shalmanese 6y agoStop trying to change the subject. This is a discussion about Russia, not the USA.
- thrwway34 6y agoWhataboutism as usual?
- hakka-nyu-su 6y agoIt depends on how you define "outsiders". Look at the 2019 poll table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Russian_sentiment#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Russian_sentiment#Statist... The Five Eyes countries, Germany, Poland, and Japan have overwhelmingly negative views (easy to explain for historical reasons). But you see overwhelmingly positive views of Russia in China, India, Nigeria, Mexico and Indonesia; and ambivalent views elsewhere in Asia, Latin America, and the Mediterranean.
- Retric 6y agoI think lumping everyone together is the least biased group of outsiders. “It found that Russia was the least popular G-8 country globally. ... Overall, the percentage of respondents with a positive view of Russia was only 31%.“ That supports the wider point quite well. Though Russia has very positive relations with a small number of countries. For example providing China with massive aid in living memory.
- dunkelheit 6y agoAs a Russian, I have definitely felt a change in attitude towards Russia fairly recently (since Crimea probably). Overall feelings switched more towards fear, distrust and annoyance that Russia is punching above its weight (wanting to be a Great Power while having a relatively puny economy). Recent case in point that comes to mind: one of the characters in the show Devs is Russian. Spoiler alert, he is definitely not a good guy. A surprising consequence of this trend is that while annoying, it had definitely led me to appreciate my home country more (even if I don't support the current government). Probably a predictable manifestation of in-group/out-group dynamics.
- johnmcauley 6y agoI agree and think that view of Russia is unfair to be honest. I’m Irish and the Irish have a relatively similar history (we had feudalism and colonialism and Russia had feudalism and communism - neither is democracy or “freedom”). Russia, and the Russian people, have done fantastic things in literature and science, and their history is amazing. I met a Russian girl recently and she called me her enemy. I was a little confused, but then she said I was British (I ain’t!) and the British are the enemy of Russia. She was very clear on this, it is how she viewed the world, or at least how she saw the dynamics of global powers. I had a great chat with her and we had great fun, I think, though, I was still her enemy at the end of the night. I think the same can be said of the “West’s” view of Russians, maybe not the enemy but certainly shady. It’s not helped by Putin and the poisonings but the ordinary Russian people are not really represented by him or by his actions. As an aside, when I mentioned Putin, she called herself, mockingly, a daughter of Putin. Then she said, we had no playgrounds before he was in power, now we have playgrounds. It was a flippant remark, but a telling one all the same. The west neglected the Russians when the Soviet Union broke up. Bush/Regan celebrated a Cold War victory, which was a mistake. They should have embraced Russia and recognised the potential of the Russian people. I think the Russians have never got over being treated like this, which, obviously, has echos of the Germans in the 30s. Sorry if I went on here, I think it’s an important subject.
- dunkelheit 6y agoThanks for the kind words. I think you are onto something - the sentiment you describe runs deep, especially among older people. It is of course generously fueled by state propaganda with "see how they treated us" being one of the favorite talking points. So distrust grows from both sides.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoI'm not sure how true this is. Rural Americans young enough to not remember the cold war are pretty well aware that they (arguably) have more in common with the Russian people than they do with any western European people even if the geopolitical goals of Russia are in conflict of those of the US.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yostrovs 6y agoPlease elaborate..
- venatiodecorus 6y agothis is the top comment? you people can't even hold your own standards
- yostrovs 6y agoThis comment would be considered bigoted by some or at least when applied to some other nations. But I agree with you. I came from there about when communism crashed and had high hopes, which have now been destroyed. Russians just don't have the same wishes that people in the west do. They just want a grand and powerful nation that is feared by others. They don't mind living rather poor as long as they have nukes and hypersonic missiles or some such. And that leads to a place that doesn't seem very nice, friendly, or attractive.
- supernova87a 6y agoThis is especially interesting to me -- that the collective mentality of a people, first of all, is a real thing. And that it can really influence how the country itself evolves. And whether it can feed back on itself in bad ways and produce cycle of people and government and culture that lock a country into a bad situation...
- Kinrany 6y ago> that the collective mentality of a people, first of all, is a real thing I don't think that's true, or at least well-defined?
- tim333 6y agoWell, the Russian leadership perhaps. I wouldn't mind betting that many ordinary Russian people would rather be a normal EU style democracy like France or Germany.
- yostrovs 6y agoMany do, but surprisingly many more don't. Their main complaints are economic. If they would be a bit wealthier, they would be content. They are ok with a one party state, homophobia, corruption, etc. It's just they're very poor and it does kind of suck. So they're upset about wealth, but everything else is ok as far as they're concerned. Generalizing of course.
- supergirl 6y agomight have something to do with the constant anti-russia propaganda in the west