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The Suspected Poisoning of Alexey Navalny, Putin’s Most Prominent Adversary
- baybal2 6y agoHe was poisoned, and survived thrice, and was also jailed for really insubstantial periods of time. I think the Kremlin is very much content with having such a plaything opposition, which tacitly plays along, and does nothing to really challenge it. The few other people who ever were a credible threat to the regime in Russia were dealt with much more unceremoniously: gunned down in the broad daylight. I think the KGB is just "trolling" him. Would they were they serious, they could've thrown the usual "espionage," or "terrorism" charge, and landed him in prison for 20+ years, poison him to death properly, or simply shot him dead as they've done with hundreds of others.
- quasse 6y agoDon't forget the "fell out a window" accident that has happened to several Russian doctors recently.
- baybal2 6y agoYes, people "fall out of windows" for much lesser offenses to the regime in Russia. Given this, take any speculation of suddenly appearing "credible opposition" in Russia with a big, big grain of salt.
- usui 6y agoI think this is what the parent comment is referring to. https://www.vox.com/2020/5/6/21248553/coronavirus-russia-doctors-windows-death https://www.vox.com/2020/5/6/21248553/coronavirus-russia-doc...
- anigbrowl 6y agoHigh status people have ground floor offices and fix their own beverages.
- gadders 6y agoAnd to Scot Young: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_Young#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_Young#Death https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-1...
- pvaldes 6y agoTo be fair it was a complicated time for doctors, suicide after being burned at work for a extremely stressing pandemy time was not ruled out. Newspapers will choose the most outrageous possibility, but nobody seems to be analyzing the possibility that (some of) those were a real suicide.
- sam_lowry_ 6y agoHe was poisoned once in jail before, and someone threw brilliant green at him, damaging his eye. So, technically, he was poisoned twice, not trice. As if this mattered. Sigh.
- snypher 6y agoI had no idea what brilliant green was (a dye also used as an antiseptic). It seems to be used often in a 'Zelyonka attack'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelyonka_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelyonka_attack
- jgwil2 6y agoNot all are dealt with "unceremoniously." See Alexander Litvinenko[0], who was not only poisoned but in such a way that there was no plausible deniability for FSB. More than anything they appeared to be making a spectacle of their impunity. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...
- arethuza 6y agoAlso Sergei Skripal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal Using WMD to take out a single person does indeed seem like making a political statement.
- meowface 6y agoAnd if the choice of murder weapon didn't make it glaringly obvious enough, Putin has all but publicly admitted to these, as well: >"Traitors will kick the bucket, believe me. Those other folks betrayed their friends, their brother in arms." [0] >"Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.” [0] >"Treason is the gravest crime possible and traitors must be punished. I am not saying the Salisbury incident is the way to do it, but traitors must be punished." [1] They cloak themselves with plausible deniability in many cases, but for turncoat intelligence personnel, they seem pretty explicit: at some point, no matter where you are, you will die an untimely, slow, painful death. It's definitely an attempted deterrent. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-traitors-kick-bucket-sergei-skripal-latest-video-30-pieces-silver-a8243206.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-put... [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vladimir-putin-theresa-may-skripal-g20-summit-japan-salisbury-attack-a8978786.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vladimir-puti...
- huhtenberg 6y agoIt's a rather confusing statement though since Skripal survived this WMD attack.
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- mc32 6y agoIt’s like he’s the modern day Rasputin. I think you’re right, if they really wanted to get him, they would. There aren’t bay of pigs amateurs.
- freetanga 6y agoThis. I strongly recommend a book called “Nothing is true and everything is possible”. It describes how State media operates in Russia (and you could make a point many other countries have learned a thing or two from the book). Basically there needs to be an opposition, in order to be a triumphant democracy. But you need to keep it weak and under control. Seeing an opposition gives hope to people. Then they loose elections, and hope deflates. Do this a few times over and you have the country under your control for the long run...
- strictnein 6y agoI've read that book, and it's very entertaining. But the actions described in that book include setting up political parties to co-opt various movements do not describe what Alexey Navalny was doing. Navalny is the exception to what was the norm in Russia: an actual opposition, albeit a very weak one.
- craftinator 6y agoWhich begs the question, why is he still alive and un-jailed?
- 2bitencryption 6y agoI like to think of myself as pretty level-headed and totally unbelieving of conspiracy theory. As an example, I think "billionaire in a prison cell kills himself to avoid the consequences of his actions" is a far more likely story than "covert assassins enter a high-security prison and stage a fake suicide". But the moment the coronavirus started to get really bad, the first place my mind went was: "How does this help Putin?" That's not to say I actually continued down that train of thought -- I don't think it's very likely Putin kept a secret lab that evolved a very potent virus and waited to release it at a time that would cause the most instability with his biggest enemies. But... my mind did go there, very fast. And sometimes it does revisit that place.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- meowface 6y agoThat's crazy to think about, but you definitely may be right. I suppose that is a very Chekist way of trolling. Although I certainly think it's very likely some aspect of the government is involved, what are the odds that some of these instances have just been the actions of diehard Putin supporters who acted totally alone? I know full well Putin's and his security services' despotic and cruel nature, but I also do want to know (to some degree of confidence) when they are or aren't involved with something.
- baybal2 6y agoNo, do not entertain yourself with such thought. The fact of: 1. Sings of long term preparation, and surveillance were there. 2. His hospital room is now "guarded" by KGB agents out of Moscow who appeared out of nowhere within a few hours. That's pretty much a very deliberately displayed smoking gun.
- meowface 6y agoThanks, figures. I have little doubt Putin ordered it (tacitly or explicitly). There just seem to be so many (attempted or successful) murders that I imagine there must have been one or two times where he's been like "fuck, I didn't even do this one but I still have to go on a PR denial tour over it". I'm pretty sure he did do the overwhelming majority, though.
- etc-hosts 6y ago> I suppose that is a very Chekist way of trolling. are you an alt of John Schindler?
- meowface 6y agoI think there's a chance I started using that term when I read some thing written him or another commentator years ago, which caused me to research the history of the organization.
- chromedev 6y agoPeople like Putin and Trump play dirty because they think that's what you have to do to win
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- grugagag 6y agoTo win what? Lets not forget what the stakes are, the countries where all these narcissistic psychopaths were either elected or self imposed dictators for life were held back. Who wants a president who considers winning a personal gain? It is extremely harmful for the short and long term as well. A president has to inspire unity for the country and most dictators suppress and hide the fact that they don’t even have half the country supporting them using different tactics from rigging elections to squashing the opposition.
- anigbrowl 6y agoSure, but supporters don't mind as long as they get some rewards. This can be as simple as feelings of higher status than their opponents or some out group. Even if supporters themselves are objectively worse off, as long as someone else has it worse again, then they feel like winners.
- rsynnott 6y agoI think it's possibly actually different motivations. Trump wants to be re-elected because he's an egomaniac. Putin wants to be re-elected because his _best_ case for political retirement is being prosecuted.
- lazyjones 6y agoAnd what makes you think Navalny plays any other way?
- cmrdporcupine 6y agoIt doesn't matter why they play dirty. The question is how they get away with it. What are the motivations of the people who back them up and enable them? Someone like Trump would fade away as a kind of comical narcissistic egomaniac sideshow (which he was before 2016) if it wasn't for the fact that there are powerful people benefiting from him being in the Whitehouse. That combined with identifying real grievances among working class people, which the so-called "left" in the US promises but fails to remedy ... it's a recipe for disaster. Hitler rose to power from the virulent fear of communism combined with the chaos and ineptness of the Weimar republic. Trump has risen to power because of the latent racism in the United States combined with the incompetence of the two political parties in the US and the fallout from the 2008 crisis. Among other things. Playing dirty only happens when there's nobody there to stop you. This we all know from the elementary school playground.
- bitxbit 6y agoI strongly believe Putin held back Russia in the past two decades. Brain drain is real and Russia had all the right pieces to be a force in tech.
- sjg007 6y agoRussia definitely has the talent.
- throwaway122kk 6y agoHad Name any political, cultural, economic, literature, sports achievement in last 30 years to come out of Russia. That's right Internet trolls which are an evolution on kgbs psyops
- jldugger 6y agonginx?
- jetzzz 6y agoAnd IntelliJ IDEA of course, which I think many HN visitors are using in one form or another. This still doesn't change the original point that Putin regime has been very damaging to Russia.
- lostmyoldone 6y agoIt's true that Jetbrains has lots of developers in Russia, but Jetbrains s.r.o is Czech and was founded in Prague under the name Intellij Software.
- vogre 6y agoJetBrains has this name this because they were brains jetting from Russia. All founders were Russians, of course.
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- supernova87a 6y agoI remember an essay a few years ago (it was the Ukrainian poisoning?) where the author essentially said that Russia's brand has basically been spoiled for outsiders. (political brand certainly, but maybe overall as a country). As in, Russia is no longer a trustworthy seeming, interesting, attractive place to want to go visit or collaborate with or be associated with. I mean, of course it depends on the level of detail you're dealing with and who exactly you're associating with. But for me, a general observer, Russia certainly seems to have gotten a history of doing and being the source of shady things. Even aside from that, and this is probably skewed by the history books focusing on the oddest parts of history -- Russia always reads like an odd, outlier place in history. Or maybe it's the Russian literature. Always something strange, or depressing going on there. What's up with that?
- adamnemecek 6y agoI imagine the geographic environment has something to do with it.
- grisha 6y agoLike, lots of resources and consequently failure to move from extensive to intensive growth mindset?
- adamnemecek 6y agoNo, just bleak, cold, depressing, vast spaces that make you feel meaningless.
- nickthemagicman 6y agoTheir history is part European and part Asian. They have history in both continents and cultures. They've always been familiar yet different.
- shuntress 6y agoI think it probably seems like an outlier from a euro-centric (in a more literal sense, not in the pejorative sense) point-of-view because it is, in general, close enough to European cultures to be similar but distant enough to be distinct. Whereas other cultures/histories may be easier to bucket as "clearly distinct" and therefor not outliers.
- fartcannon 6y agoIs there a book written by a soldier that explains why people defend/enforce the power of evil people? Putin himself is not poisoning these people, someone is doing it for him. Why? Doesn't have to be from Russia. Any soldier defending any evil person - why?
- throwaw4y-plate 6y agoWill no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?
- laksdjfkasljdf 6y agoreference: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/opinion/meddlesome-priest-comey-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/opinion/meddlesome-priest...
- throwaw4y-plate 6y agoNb: I was referencing Becket, not Comey lol
- wombat-man 6y agoMoney? I'm sure the people needed to keep that whole show going are getting paid quite well.
- wruza 6y agoIt's usually extensive training and ideology. It makes money an irrelevant or a secondary goal.
- enkid 6y agoHere's a YouTube video that summarizes the Dictator's Handbook. It gives an explanation about how the perspective of a dictator/autocrat is different than than someone who is in charge of a democratic organization. Basically, the fewer people you have to answer to, the more you need to reward those few followers by stealing from everyone else. This forms a pyramid scheme where everyone is trying to take as much as they can so they can then redistribute the spoils to their key supporters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
- dsabanin 6y agoI was born in Russia and I despise Putin. He is the reason why I emigrated. He and his cronies brough the country into the dark age, from which it may never come out. He is, without a single doubt, Hitler of the 21st century. * He consolidated all the political and judicial power. Destroyed, physically, politically or judicially all the opponents. Elections are completely fake. * He completely controls all secret services, with vast spying network and formidable IT intrusion capabilities. * He implemented full and completely legal surveilance state. Documented and legally mandated recording of all the cellphone communications, email, internet access logs. They urgently started building DNA database of all the citizens. Every citizen will be assigned a unique number to which all the data from all the agencies will be tied. Even a regular neighborhood policeman will have access to all this data. Cameras with face recognition being installed all over Moscow. Chinese-like internet firewall is being created. * He controls the organized crime networks, in fact his whole gang who is in charge of Russia grew out of that crime syndicate. * He leads and benefits from a group of very powerful "capitalists", serving the regime needs in many, many different ways around the world and internally. * He completely controls all the media (bought out by his cronies or nationalized), which helped him create a blatant propaganda machine, rivaled probably only by Chinese and North Koreans. They can spin anything. People in Russia are utterly confused and don't believe in reality anymore. They are drowned in ridiculous bullshit all day long and conspiracy theories are being distributed by state TV channels. * He usied this propaganda machine to create myth of the great Russian world and moral and intellectual exceptionality of Slavs. Constantly bringing up the great heroic ancestors and their achievement in WW2, and duty if modern Russians to not squander what they achieved. There's constantly talks about how Russia is the only true God's country, and that it's a moral savior of the world. There's an instilled feeling of victimhood, almost sainthood, of Russian culture. Everything that happens is somebody else's fault, a foreign influence, an accident, or sabotage. They truly believe that russians are the greatest people on Earth. * He annexed Crimea, created instability and puppet regimes in many bordering states. His next possible goal is Belarus. I believe, these are pretty much all the ingredients necessary to build a nazi/fascist state, and that is in fact exactly what they've built.
- trumpersHateMe 6y agoThat reads like the playbook being used by certain leader we have here in the states.
- gadders 6y agoThis [1] is a good article from Buzzfeed about all the UK hits that have happened. Not all were poisonings. https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-1...
- johnyzee 6y agoGet political news off HN. It's a slippery slope.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sevenf0ur 6y agoIt always devolves into rants with tenuous connections to the current president. They can't help themselves.
- olegious 6y agoGiven what's happening in Belarus, this seems like odd timing to take this action (assuming he was intentionally poisoned by the government).
- azinman2 6y agoCouldn't it be causal, as the article suggests?
- SergeAx 6y agoIn Russia unified voting day is September 13. Navalny is running "Smart Voting" campaign to consolidate votes for most electable candidate. Taking him off the chess desk is a serious dent in that campaign. At the same time, using poison gives Putin maximum plausible deniability. It is almost impossible to prove his involvement.
- atlasunshrugged 6y agoFor those interested in trying to understand more of the context of modern day Russia, and more particularly, Putin's rise to power, I highly recommend 3 books. 1) Catherine Belton: Putin's People https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VMZYK13/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VMZYK13/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... 2) Bill Browder: Red Notice https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O30HFT2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btk https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O30HFT2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... 3) Masha Gessen: Several books, but I particularly liked Man without a Face https://www.amazon.com/Masha-Gessen/e/B001H6MBXK https://www.amazon.com/Masha-Gessen/e/B001H6MBXK
- strictnein 6y agoI really enjoyed parts of Man Without a Face, especially the details on his early life and how/why he was chosen by Yeltsin.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y agoNote the very different tone here between this discussion about russia and previous discussions about china. Strangely calmer and less troll-swamped, this.
- knolax 6y agoProbably because you're not commenting as much on this thread.
- Phillips126 6y agoI don't have a lot of knowledge in history or politics of foreign countries, so perhaps someone here could answer this question: In the end, time kills us all. Putin is currently 67 years old, I assume he will likely rule for another decade plus before time comes for him. Any hypothesis as to what may happen after Putin? Is it likely he'll "name" a successor who shares his authoritarian views and the cycle continues?
- supernova87a 6y agoOh, by the way, I remember reading this really interesting narrative of how the Litvinenko polonium poisoning went down and some of the backstory. It's by a Guardian news reporter who tried to investigate. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0025817217707377 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/002581721770737... I believe you can grab it off of Sci-hub in case you can't access the above for free...
- aaron695 6y agoAlexey Navalny has not been poisoned from 'tea' I know HN cannot think for themselves. But for a crazy idea try. Show me why should think Navalny has been poisoned and how it might have been done. 100% happy to look at unsubstantiated things like tweets of leaks from the hospital. Or random rumours. [edit] The evidence Alexei Navalny has been poisoned before is weak. Obviously as an opposition leader if I had anything vague happen that might look like poisoning I would definitely allow that rumour spread. His previous medical attacks don't seem like poisoning to me, compared to what happened to Pyotr Verzilov for instance.