7 ms·

In your culture, at which point is it permitted (legally or not) to take someone like that out back and punch them a few times? I only had to deal with one sit

In your culture, at which point is it permitted (legally or not) to take someone like that out back and punch them a few times? I only had to deal with one situation like this in my life, and the person responsible is now no longer welcome in my county, so we sorted it out.

jacquesm 6y ago
I still dream about it. And it's 20 years ago. That guy and his buddies caused us so much misery it isn't funny. Another Bauer story; prior to the investment: he had fear of flying, and was an asshole to the people that he perceived as lower on the social ladder than himself. So when he was nasty to the stewardess on a very small airplane (10 seater, twin prop) flying from Los Angeles to San Luis Obispo and the pilots caught on to his fear they got their revenge on him by doing all kinds of borderline legal aerobatics with the plane. Bauer and I were the only passengers, I had a great time but made sure to sit where it was safe. He was as white as a sheet when we landed, and made a great point of being polite to the stewardess on the way back. One asshole deflated, props to those pilots (pun intended) for standing up for their colleague.
- serf 6y ago
  >One asshole deflated, props to those pilots (pun intended) for standing up for their colleague. so, someone was socially rude, so some pilots decided to risk the lives of everybody on board to teach a lesson. Aerobatics , even if 'borderline-legal', are still more stressful on the plane and components. Stress still causes early failure, even if the stress was produced with legal maneuvers. Hopping curbs in a passenger car is not usually illegal, it'll just destroy the car prematurely. Spontaneous aerobatics still risk injury from gravity-flung objects in the cabin. So, i'm glad the person you dislike had a lesson taught. I'm less glad that the crew acted unprofessionally. I'm very glad that no incidents occurred as a result. The sky isn't the place for revenge and vengeance, especially on passenger flights. I really hope that the crew has matured since then. There are plenty of ways companies and professionals can refuse service without risking collateral damage like that.
  - somehnguy 6y ago
    You're assuming that trained pilots somehow had no idea what they could safely do in their aircraft. Why?
    - Angeo34 6y ago
      The problem is that they put everyone lives at risk. It doesn't matter how convinced you are of your abilities if your life and the life of others is at immediate risk (like in a plane or on a bus)
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        Noone's life was at risk. It was just mildly more exciting than a normal flight and well within the range of permitted stresses on that particular plane. GGP made an assumption and then reacted to that assumption as though it was a fact. We weren't doing loopings or Immelmans, just a couple of nice steep banks and a pretty steep ascent/descent. If the plane would have not been able to handle that it shouldn't have been flying in the first place. I've been through lots worse in single engine GA planes in rural Canada.
        serf 6y ago
        question : would the pilots be at fault if the victim of the prank had suffered a heart attack or stress-related stroke due to the thrill-ride? Not legally, morally. I tend to think so, given that creating a thrill-ride is outside the scope and purview of being a private pilot. A professional, acting outside the scope of his profession, who seems to be acting with malice or disregard creates a situation that could quite literally kill a person who has certain conditions (even unknowingly). >Noone's life was at risk. I can't do the mental acrobatics that are necessary to see that as a zero risk situation. It's not just the airframe that the pilot is tasked with worrying about, the safety of the occupants comes first.
  - not_really 6y ago
    Relax.
- copperx 6y ago
  Great story. During my life I've found that assholes of the narcissistic kind have fears or insecurities that clash with their bravado posturing (e.g., a primal fear of dogs, flying, paranoia of being talked about behind their back, cheated on, moving away from their hometown, being seen as bad dressers -- those are the ones I remember). I have always found this odd. I know nothing about psychology, but maybe there's a correlation there?
mschuster91 6y ago
In Germany, even the slightest acceptance of violence usage against capitalists and Nazis is going to get you a shitstorm from the far right to the center/left left. The result? Just look at how effective militant French protests have been in keeping neoliberal attacks on worker rights at bay, and how unsuccessful German protests have been.
- wildmanx 6y ago
  Violence is unacceptable. Period. It is sad that there are cultures where that's different.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    So is the violence of the police and of other government agencies (think sheriffs enforcing eviction orders) acceptable? When is legitimate use of force crossing the line to abuse? When are people allowed to defend themselves? It's funny to see how in many Western governments the (legitimate!) protest of the people in Hongkong is cheered upon, but BLM, Yellow Vests other domestic protests are discarded... Saying "violence is unacceptable" is something one can only say as a member of the privileged majority. For minorities, for marginalized people, for poor people though... the lines are way more blurry than blanket black-and-white statements. And for the record: I'm not a friend of pointless militant acts but I will not dare to judge over anyone not as privileged as I am to come to a different opinion.
    - Waterfall 6y ago
      Why did you make up that BLM, yellow vests and whatever random domestic protest you made up isn't supported and only HK is?
    - wildmanx 6y ago
      Alright, you are now arguing that in response to violence, counter violence may be acceptable and therefore my post must be coming from a position of privilege. My statement was about the original act of violence. It would benefit everybody to focus on that one, instead of immediately screaming "but I have to be allowed to punch back!!!1" P.S.: You have no idea about my gender, skin color, sexual orientation or social class. Please don't just assume things.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jacquesm 6y ago

I still dream about it. And it's 20 years ago. That guy and his buddies caused us so much misery it isn't funny. Another Bauer story; prior to the investment: he had fear of flying, and was an asshole to the people that he perceived as lower on the social ladder than himself. So when he was nasty to the stewardess on a very small airplane (10 seater, twin prop) flying from Los Angeles to San Luis Obispo and the pilots caught on to his fear they got their revenge on him by doing all kinds of borderline legal aerobatics with the plane. Bauer and I were the only passengers, I had a great time but made sure to sit where it was safe. He was as white as a sheet when we landed, and made a great point of being polite to the stewardess on the way back. One asshole deflated, props to those pilots (pun intended) for standing up for their colleague.

serf 6y ago
>One asshole deflated, props to those pilots (pun intended) for standing up for their colleague. so, someone was socially rude, so some pilots decided to risk the lives of everybody on board to teach a lesson. Aerobatics , even if 'borderline-legal', are still more stressful on the plane and components. Stress still causes early failure, even if the stress was produced with legal maneuvers. Hopping curbs in a passenger car is not usually illegal, it'll just destroy the car prematurely. Spontaneous aerobatics still risk injury from gravity-flung objects in the cabin. So, i'm glad the person you dislike had a lesson taught. I'm less glad that the crew acted unprofessionally. I'm very glad that no incidents occurred as a result. The sky isn't the place for revenge and vengeance, especially on passenger flights. I really hope that the crew has matured since then. There are plenty of ways companies and professionals can refuse service without risking collateral damage like that.
- somehnguy 6y ago
  You're assuming that trained pilots somehow had no idea what they could safely do in their aircraft. Why?
  - Angeo34 6y ago
    The problem is that they put everyone lives at risk. It doesn't matter how convinced you are of your abilities if your life and the life of others is at immediate risk (like in a plane or on a bus)
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      Noone's life was at risk. It was just mildly more exciting than a normal flight and well within the range of permitted stresses on that particular plane. GGP made an assumption and then reacted to that assumption as though it was a fact. We weren't doing loopings or Immelmans, just a couple of nice steep banks and a pretty steep ascent/descent. If the plane would have not been able to handle that it shouldn't have been flying in the first place. I've been through lots worse in single engine GA planes in rural Canada.
      - serf 6y ago
        question : would the pilots be at fault if the victim of the prank had suffered a heart attack or stress-related stroke due to the thrill-ride? Not legally, morally. I tend to think so, given that creating a thrill-ride is outside the scope and purview of being a private pilot. A professional, acting outside the scope of his profession, who seems to be acting with malice or disregard creates a situation that could quite literally kill a person who has certain conditions (even unknowingly). >Noone's life was at risk. I can't do the mental acrobatics that are necessary to see that as a zero risk situation. It's not just the airframe that the pilot is tasked with worrying about, the safety of the occupants comes first.
- not_really 6y ago
  Relax.
copperx 6y ago
Great story. During my life I've found that assholes of the narcissistic kind have fears or insecurities that clash with their bravado posturing (e.g., a primal fear of dogs, flying, paranoia of being talked about behind their back, cheated on, moving away from their hometown, being seen as bad dressers -- those are the ones I remember). I have always found this odd. I know nothing about psychology, but maybe there's a correlation there?

mschuster91 6y ago

In Germany, even the slightest acceptance of violence usage against capitalists and Nazis is going to get you a shitstorm from the far right to the center/left left. The result? Just look at how effective militant French protests have been in keeping neoliberal attacks on worker rights at bay, and how unsuccessful German protests have been.

wildmanx 6y ago
Violence is unacceptable. Period. It is sad that there are cultures where that's different.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  So is the violence of the police and of other government agencies (think sheriffs enforcing eviction orders) acceptable? When is legitimate use of force crossing the line to abuse? When are people allowed to defend themselves? It's funny to see how in many Western governments the (legitimate!) protest of the people in Hongkong is cheered upon, but BLM, Yellow Vests other domestic protests are discarded... Saying "violence is unacceptable" is something one can only say as a member of the privileged majority. For minorities, for marginalized people, for poor people though... the lines are way more blurry than blanket black-and-white statements. And for the record: I'm not a friend of pointless militant acts but I will not dare to judge over anyone not as privileged as I am to come to a different opinion.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    Why did you make up that BLM, yellow vests and whatever random domestic protest you made up isn't supported and only HK is?
  - wildmanx 6y ago
    Alright, you are now arguing that in response to violence, counter violence may be acceptable and therefore my post must be coming from a position of privilege. My statement was about the original act of violence. It would benefit everybody to focus on that one, instead of immediately screaming "but I have to be allowed to punch back!!!1" P.S.: You have no idea about my gender, skin color, sexual orientation or social class. Please don't just assume things.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]