21 ms·

Well this is horrifying. I bought a Quest for a relative. He loves it, but he doesn't have a Facebook account, and has no interest in signing up. I have a Faceb

Well this is horrifying. I bought a Quest for a relative. He loves it, but he doesn't have a Facebook account, and has no interest in signing up. I have a Facebook account, but I don't use it, and I certainly don't want to connect my Oculus account. I guess we'll both have to sell our Quests. That means we'll lose all of our game purchases. I came to Oculus with eyes wide open knowing it was a Facebook company, but this news still sucks.

tobrien6 6y ago
Just make a burner Facebook account. You can do so with a burner email. Annoying, but not horrifying.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Alupis 6y ago
  Sometimes Facebook requires a photo ID to be submitted before "approving" a new account. Seems to happen when they suspect the person isn't real (fake name, or whatever).
  - emerongi 6y ago
    My grandpa accidentally used a phone number to register when he was trying to log in. His original account got promptly locked and for months they would periodically lock it. He had to provide ID proof every time. I don't use Facebook, but I totally recognize how valuable it is for my grandpa. Sadly, Facebook does not allow any mistakes to be made on its site, which is what older people tend to do when faced with new tech.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    FWIW it's quite simple to make fake IDs that pass FB verification. Not that I support making FB accounts, even fraudulent ones. I'd like to see a class action privacy suit, because in conjunction with their real names policy, FB is forcing identity disclosure simply to use hardware.
    - shazow 6y ago
      I just tried and failed: https://twitter.com/shazow/status/1295835462360338436 https://twitter.com/shazow/status/1295835462360338436 I used a realistic sounding name, I tried several email addresses that were rejected as blocked, eventually I landed on an email that worked and my account got immediately disabled. I'm sure I could eventually succeed, but I don't believe that it's fair to brush this off as something that anybody could do easily.
      - klyrs 6y ago
        Your tweet indicates that you were stopped by the "government ID required" hoop. I've been there. I'm no graphics design wizard, but I foiled this by (1) taking a photograph of my actual government ID, (2) copying letters around to spell the name I'm known by, (3) applying some noise and blur filters (4) downsampling, and (5) redacting all PII except name & face. Compared to making an actual fake ID, I call this quite simple. I imagine that you could use a plausible but fake name and a plausible but fake "random person" image, but I'm not interested in actually interacting with that website enough to try. You might try a clean OS & browser install, to avoid trackers, and maybe if you've been banned a bunch already, use a VPN (or stop using a VPN) or use Starbucks wifi or something.
        Alupis 6y ago
        That is, admittedly, a lot of work, even if it does bypass this absurd requirement.
        klyrs 6y ago
        I don't recommend or use that shit website anymore, so the simple solution is stop doing the thing that's hurting you... but if you really need it for some reason then putting ~30min into making a fake id might be worthwhile.
- verbatim 6y ago
  You can make a burner email account that doesn't track you around the web, and other places. Is it possible to do that with a Facebook account?
  - ilogik 6y ago
    if you're not logged into it in the browser, it can't follow you around
    - Alupis 6y ago
      Not entirely true. If you've logged in at all, and didn't purge your cookies and local storage, they might still be tracking you everywhere you visit.
    - stjohnswarts 6y ago
      third party cookies allowed means they can follow you around logged in or out. They can also follow you around by your fingerprint (IP+various browser info bits that uniquely identify you)
- vmception 6y ago
  When you make a facebook account disconnected from a social graph (new email, or unused phone number) facebook shuts down the account. Their position is clear. They’re fucking creeps masquerading any user experience they create as anti-spam.
  - spike021 6y ago
    Is this confirmed? I made a second account at one point with a new email and have had zero issues with both. Although I rarely log into the first one, maybe once a month or so.
    - aspaceman 6y ago
      It's still connected to the graph if you have another account accessed from the same IP. They know there's a connection from that account to yours. Don't create a burner account. Facebook's TOS is to lock burners and require an ID to unlock, so you'd be locking all your games out of access.
      - Arnavion 6y ago
        They're going to lose their games if they don't make any account anyway. So if they feel strongly about not making a proper account, they might as well try with a burner one and see how long it lasts?
      - spike021 6y ago
        Again, I've had and technically logged into both accounts concurrently for at least the past 3-5 years. So unless this only applies to new accounts, I have yet to have either one locked out. That's why I was wondering if it's officially confirmed somewhere.
        vmception 6y ago
        This isn’t a 3-5 year old phenomenon. I don’t think there are many people that are cognizant in how to break their social graph. I’ve seen a few other hackernews comments corroborating it over the past year. But it isn't a common case so Facebook gets away with it.
- em-bee 6y ago
  not good enough. maybe if you only play solo games, but once you play with others facebook will get enough data to get an idea, if not identify who you really are. you may get tagged by your friends or family, connected to a location, etc, many ways to leak personal information. the only way to stay safe is to not log in to facebook
- encom 6y ago
  Not possible. I tried doing that once, and Facebook demanded I give them my phone number, which I obviously denied.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- soulofmischief 6y ago
  No. I'm not going to give them what they want. There needs to be a lawsuit.
data4lyfe 6y ago
I'm interested in buying it from you if this is actually the case.
wlesieutre 6y ago
If you make a Facebook account and never touch the Facebook aspect of it, is there any material difference between that and an Oculus account?
- codezero 6y ago
  I'm sure this just changes which pipe usage data goes down, but this means Facebook directly gets to use your VR usage/purchases to market to you, and they will follow you around the web, because they know. I think that's the main reason folks generally dislike FB connect in the first place, but I don't want to speak for everyone :)
  - abraae 6y ago
    > this means Facebook directly gets to use your VR usage/purchases to market to you, and they will follow you around the web Only if you use or log into your bogus FB account.
    - codezero 6y ago
      Having your IP address is identifiable enough (combined with all the other joys of big data) to Facebook and its marketing wing, so don't feel too confident, but if you don't care, then that's kind of the point.
      - ryanSrich 6y ago
        Wondering if creating burning accounts for everything would prevent any tracking. Basically - create burner gmail - create burner oculus name/account - create burner Facebook account - always use a VPN It seems like you could completely remain anonymous and provide Facebook with data they could never correlate to a real person.
        xlii 6y ago
        Did you try to make a burner Facebook account? I tried doing this since my client needed something to be verified through FB and I don't have an account. After initial login I was asked to verify myself by either providing ID (sic!) or a phone number. Well, seems that after 2023 I'll just trash my Quest.
rolph 6y ago
so here i am wondering if facebook would be challenged by a constant flood of anonymous [off graph] accounts constantly flooding in. how many 3card monte accounts per second would be required to keep the account verifier demon flooded
Akronymus 6y ago
> ... but he doesn't have a Facebook account,... Not that he knows. https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-about-you-even-if-youre-not-on-facebook-94804 https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-a...
bencollier49 6y ago
If you're in a country with half-decent consumer protections, you ought to be able to return the device, as it no longer functions as sold.
- gentleman11 6y ago
  Which country is that?
  - ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
    Australia for one. I returned my Ring camera when they removed the customisable motion detection zones and it no longer worked as advertised (to this day, many months later) on their own website.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    I think you'd have a pretty good case in the UK too - the device is no longer fit for the purposes for which it was sold, and a user could point towards Lucky's statement as a company representation as to what the product was sold for.
- swimfar 6y ago
  Or, if you bought it with a credit card, you can request a charge back. Depending on the card, doing that even 12 months after purchase is possible.
52-6F-62 6y ago
I've had a Rift for several years now. I haven't had a Facebook account in far longer. I've also spent a bit of money on Rift games. This is angering.
jhomedall 6y ago
I'm in a similar boat. I purchase a Quest a while back (unaware of the Facebook affiliation), and really enjoy it. I can't see myself using it again after this, however.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Do we expect Joey Beercan to know who the explicit owner of any company selling us a product? Is it their fault for not knowing? Is that really fair if that is the expectation? The parent's downvotes makes it seem like HN expects the purchaser to know about the FB affiliation
ozten 6y ago
It may not take effect until 2023.
atonalfreerider 6y ago
As a VR developer I'm really sad to hear this news. I've always been against the walled garden approach. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they block SideQuest. However - supposedly your oculus account will be valid until the end of 2022 [0]. At that point you could change to a newer hardware platform from another manufacturer. [0] https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-facebook-account-required-new-users-existing-users/ https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-facebook-account-required-ne...
- RealStickman_ 6y ago
  He'll still lose access to all games he owns on the Oculus store.
ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
How hard is it to create a facebook account?
- quinndiggity 6y ago
  It's literally impossible, in case you haven't tried recently. If you don't want to send them a government issued photo ID, you can make a new account that lasts 10 minutes and then is locked on you and holds any accounts linked to it hostage as you can't sign in.
  - ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
    > literally impossible come on
RealStickman_ 6y ago
That's exactly why I went for the Rift S instead and bought all my games through Steam. So I can sell that piece of plastic and get something not feom Oculus.
jedberg 6y ago
You don't have any contact info in your profile, but if you're serious, I already have a Facebook account that I use daily so I don't care much. I'll buy one of them from you for $300 or the pair for $500. That seems like the going price? Contact is in my profile, let me know.
- gjs278 6y ago
  they won't sell them to you, they are simply lying. it takes 30 seconds to make a burner account for the VR headset and you're done. it's stupid you have to do that, but I'm really sick of commenters pretending like they're gonna throw it away. this is the "I'm moving to canada of tech" and if they really are, show me the receipt after you buy both of them, please. they even have until 2023 before it matters.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  $300? Damn, why did I just buy a new one for $600 :( EDIT: Oh, it's $399 retail in the US. Damn Europe.
vernie 6y ago
A tad hyperbolic, don't you think?
- senectus1 6y ago
  nope. FB can not be trusted. I'd argue they should be dismantled. Time after time they have not only expressed views that are downright alarming but they have been actively repeatedly caught out deliberately flaunting the law and fucking their customers. (not to mention their Russian connections and their part in the election tampering in the US). Google are a naught boy compared to the actively evil FB org.

tobrien6 6y ago

Just make a burner Facebook account. You can do so with a burner email. Annoying, but not horrifying.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Alupis 6y ago
Sometimes Facebook requires a photo ID to be submitted before "approving" a new account. Seems to happen when they suspect the person isn't real (fake name, or whatever).
- emerongi 6y ago
  My grandpa accidentally used a phone number to register when he was trying to log in. His original account got promptly locked and for months they would periodically lock it. He had to provide ID proof every time. I don't use Facebook, but I totally recognize how valuable it is for my grandpa. Sadly, Facebook does not allow any mistakes to be made on its site, which is what older people tend to do when faced with new tech.
- klyrs 6y ago
  FWIW it's quite simple to make fake IDs that pass FB verification. Not that I support making FB accounts, even fraudulent ones. I'd like to see a class action privacy suit, because in conjunction with their real names policy, FB is forcing identity disclosure simply to use hardware.
  - shazow 6y ago
    I just tried and failed: https://twitter.com/shazow/status/1295835462360338436 https://twitter.com/shazow/status/1295835462360338436 I used a realistic sounding name, I tried several email addresses that were rejected as blocked, eventually I landed on an email that worked and my account got immediately disabled. I'm sure I could eventually succeed, but I don't believe that it's fair to brush this off as something that anybody could do easily.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      Your tweet indicates that you were stopped by the "government ID required" hoop. I've been there. I'm no graphics design wizard, but I foiled this by (1) taking a photograph of my actual government ID, (2) copying letters around to spell the name I'm known by, (3) applying some noise and blur filters (4) downsampling, and (5) redacting all PII except name & face. Compared to making an actual fake ID, I call this quite simple. I imagine that you could use a plausible but fake name and a plausible but fake "random person" image, but I'm not interested in actually interacting with that website enough to try. You might try a clean OS & browser install, to avoid trackers, and maybe if you've been banned a bunch already, use a VPN (or stop using a VPN) or use Starbucks wifi or something.
      - Alupis 6y ago
        That is, admittedly, a lot of work, even if it does bypass this absurd requirement.
        klyrs 6y ago
        I don't recommend or use that shit website anymore, so the simple solution is stop doing the thing that's hurting you... but if you really need it for some reason then putting ~30min into making a fake id might be worthwhile.
verbatim 6y ago
You can make a burner email account that doesn't track you around the web, and other places. Is it possible to do that with a Facebook account?
- ilogik 6y ago
  if you're not logged into it in the browser, it can't follow you around
  - Alupis 6y ago
    Not entirely true. If you've logged in at all, and didn't purge your cookies and local storage, they might still be tracking you everywhere you visit.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    third party cookies allowed means they can follow you around logged in or out. They can also follow you around by your fingerprint (IP+various browser info bits that uniquely identify you)
vmception 6y ago
When you make a facebook account disconnected from a social graph (new email, or unused phone number) facebook shuts down the account. Their position is clear. They’re fucking creeps masquerading any user experience they create as anti-spam.
- spike021 6y ago
  Is this confirmed? I made a second account at one point with a new email and have had zero issues with both. Although I rarely log into the first one, maybe once a month or so.
  - aspaceman 6y ago
    It's still connected to the graph if you have another account accessed from the same IP. They know there's a connection from that account to yours. Don't create a burner account. Facebook's TOS is to lock burners and require an ID to unlock, so you'd be locking all your games out of access.
    - Arnavion 6y ago
      They're going to lose their games if they don't make any account anyway. So if they feel strongly about not making a proper account, they might as well try with a burner one and see how long it lasts?
    - spike021 6y ago
      Again, I've had and technically logged into both accounts concurrently for at least the past 3-5 years. So unless this only applies to new accounts, I have yet to have either one locked out. That's why I was wondering if it's officially confirmed somewhere.
      - vmception 6y ago
        This isn’t a 3-5 year old phenomenon. I don’t think there are many people that are cognizant in how to break their social graph. I’ve seen a few other hackernews comments corroborating it over the past year. But it isn't a common case so Facebook gets away with it.
em-bee 6y ago
not good enough. maybe if you only play solo games, but once you play with others facebook will get enough data to get an idea, if not identify who you really are. you may get tagged by your friends or family, connected to a location, etc, many ways to leak personal information. the only way to stay safe is to not log in to facebook
encom 6y ago
Not possible. I tried doing that once, and Facebook demanded I give them my phone number, which I obviously denied.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
soulofmischief 6y ago
No. I'm not going to give them what they want. There needs to be a lawsuit.

data4lyfe 6y ago

I'm interested in buying it from you if this is actually the case.

wlesieutre 6y ago

If you make a Facebook account and never touch the Facebook aspect of it, is there any material difference between that and an Oculus account?

codezero 6y ago
I'm sure this just changes which pipe usage data goes down, but this means Facebook directly gets to use your VR usage/purchases to market to you, and they will follow you around the web, because they know. I think that's the main reason folks generally dislike FB connect in the first place, but I don't want to speak for everyone :)
- abraae 6y ago
  > this means Facebook directly gets to use your VR usage/purchases to market to you, and they will follow you around the web Only if you use or log into your bogus FB account.
  - codezero 6y ago
    Having your IP address is identifiable enough (combined with all the other joys of big data) to Facebook and its marketing wing, so don't feel too confident, but if you don't care, then that's kind of the point.
    - ryanSrich 6y ago
      Wondering if creating burning accounts for everything would prevent any tracking. Basically - create burner gmail - create burner oculus name/account - create burner Facebook account - always use a VPN It seems like you could completely remain anonymous and provide Facebook with data they could never correlate to a real person.
      - xlii 6y ago
        Did you try to make a burner Facebook account? I tried doing this since my client needed something to be verified through FB and I don't have an account. After initial login I was asked to verify myself by either providing ID (sic!) or a phone number. Well, seems that after 2023 I'll just trash my Quest.

rolph 6y ago

so here i am wondering if facebook would be challenged by a constant flood of anonymous [off graph] accounts constantly flooding in. how many 3card monte accounts per second would be required to keep the account verifier demon flooded

Akronymus 6y ago

> ... but he doesn't have a Facebook account,... Not that he knows. https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-about-you-even-if-youre-not-on-facebook-94804 https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-a...

bencollier49 6y ago

If you're in a country with half-decent consumer protections, you ought to be able to return the device, as it no longer functions as sold.

gentleman11 6y ago
Which country is that?
- ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
  Australia for one. I returned my Ring camera when they removed the customisable motion detection zones and it no longer worked as advertised (to this day, many months later) on their own website.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  I think you'd have a pretty good case in the UK too - the device is no longer fit for the purposes for which it was sold, and a user could point towards Lucky's statement as a company representation as to what the product was sold for.
swimfar 6y ago
Or, if you bought it with a credit card, you can request a charge back. Depending on the card, doing that even 12 months after purchase is possible.

52-6F-62 6y ago

I've had a Rift for several years now. I haven't had a Facebook account in far longer. I've also spent a bit of money on Rift games. This is angering.

jhomedall 6y ago

I'm in a similar boat. I purchase a Quest a while back (unaware of the Facebook affiliation), and really enjoy it. I can't see myself using it again after this, however.

dylan604 6y ago
Do we expect Joey Beercan to know who the explicit owner of any company selling us a product? Is it their fault for not knowing? Is that really fair if that is the expectation? The parent's downvotes makes it seem like HN expects the purchaser to know about the FB affiliation

ozten 6y ago

It may not take effect until 2023.

atonalfreerider 6y ago

As a VR developer I'm really sad to hear this news. I've always been against the walled garden approach. I feel like it's only a matter of time before they block SideQuest. However - supposedly your oculus account will be valid until the end of 2022 [0]. At that point you could change to a newer hardware platform from another manufacturer. [0] https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-facebook-account-required-new-users-existing-users/ https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-facebook-account-required-ne...

RealStickman_ 6y ago
He'll still lose access to all games he owns on the Oculus store.

ccktlmazeltov 6y ago

How hard is it to create a facebook account?

quinndiggity 6y ago
It's literally impossible, in case you haven't tried recently. If you don't want to send them a government issued photo ID, you can make a new account that lasts 10 minutes and then is locked on you and holds any accounts linked to it hostage as you can't sign in.
- ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
  > literally impossible come on

RealStickman_ 6y ago

That's exactly why I went for the Rift S instead and bought all my games through Steam. So I can sell that piece of plastic and get something not feom Oculus.

jedberg 6y ago

You don't have any contact info in your profile, but if you're serious, I already have a Facebook account that I use daily so I don't care much. I'll buy one of them from you for $300 or the pair for $500. That seems like the going price? Contact is in my profile, let me know.

gjs278 6y ago
they won't sell them to you, they are simply lying. it takes 30 seconds to make a burner account for the VR headset and you're done. it's stupid you have to do that, but I'm really sick of commenters pretending like they're gonna throw it away. this is the "I'm moving to canada of tech" and if they really are, show me the receipt after you buy both of them, please. they even have until 2023 before it matters.
StavrosK 6y ago
$300? Damn, why did I just buy a new one for $600 :( EDIT: Oh, it's $399 retail in the US. Damn Europe.

vernie 6y ago

A tad hyperbolic, don't you think?

senectus1 6y ago
nope. FB can not be trusted. I'd argue they should be dismantled. Time after time they have not only expressed views that are downright alarming but they have been actively repeatedly caught out deliberately flaunting the law and fucking their customers. (not to mention their Russian connections and their part in the election tampering in the US). Google are a naught boy compared to the actively evil FB org.