14 ms·

Common sense. Amazon want to ‘own’ the customer relationship and go to great lengths to that end then it follows they will have to ‘own’ any liability too. Ima

by jarym 6y ago

Common sense. Amazon want to ‘own’ the customer relationship and go to great lengths to that end then it follows they will have to ‘own’ any liability too. Imagine you went into a retail store with a faulty product and they were to try fob you off saying you need to go to their supplier/wholesaler/manufacturer. It mostly doesn’t work that way thanks to most consumer protection laws in place.

ashtonkem 6y ago
More specifically, the responsibility for chasing down the manufacturer for a refund is shifted onto the retailer, not the consumer.
- briandear 6y ago
  And the retailer has leverage the consumer does not. “Fix this or we don’t sell your stuff.”
- an_opabinia 6y ago
  Has Amazon systemically refuses refunds for people who try to return counterfeit goods? It definitely doesn’t care if you don’t even notice. But they do the returns if you ask. The former is what needs to change.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I actually had them refuse a return on a blatantly counterfeit set of coffee filters (they were 1/4 size and didn’t even fit the brand they were marked for). Given that it was about $12, I didn’t fight them about it.
  - cscurmudgeon 6y ago
    Only within their refund period. I have had so many products break down after their return window. Most recent example: Expensive chargers which stopped work within a few months. The seller’s page was gone. Customer support was of no use. This seems to be a common pattern. Fly by night sellers whose pages disappear within a few days.
    - x0x0 6y ago
      "duracell" cr2032s -- those little pancake batteries for your car keyfob -- that die within 4 months. Which is weird, because the duracells at my hardware store last like 5 years.
      - ping_pong 6y ago
        Yes, this exact same thing happened to me with cr2032s. Now I'm only buying from trusted retailers who own their inventory.
      - yomly 6y ago
        When you buy these fakes from Amazon are they sold by Amazon? Or are they 3P sellers? Or is the problem that FBA sellers are infecting legitimate "sold by Amazon" inventory?
        myself248 6y ago
        If Amazon commingles the inventory from unknown supply chains, how can any of it be called "legitimate"?
        yomly 6y ago
        Yeah - FBA is actually a really awful attack vector. I hope that they internally are able to track sub-ASIN level inventory, otherwise they have made a fantastic laundering platform.
        AnssiH 6y ago
        Yes, they are able to track original sources (by never putting commingled units in the same bin), per seller help pages (and e.g. Amazon comments in this article: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/04/03/1554287401000/Amazon--sub-prime---Part-II/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/04/03/1554287401000/Amazon-...).
        6y ago
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    You can't even report that the reason for your return is that you suspect or know that the item you received is counterfeit during the return process. If Amazon cared about a problem this big, they would collect metrics from customers on it.
    - furyg3 6y ago
      There may be other reasons (legal) to not want to collect these metrics...
      - leoc 6y ago
        Repeating myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 > The classic "control fraud" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud strategy is to incentivise your subordinates to maximise revenues while "neglecting" to check that they aren't engaging in fraud to do it. Then you can protest your innocence when the fraud comes to light.
        amelius 6y ago
        Would control fraud work in a company as big as Amazon? If you're that big, then there's a huge probability of a whistleblower or unhappy ex-employee exposing you.
        rodgerd 6y ago
        When Wells Fargo set incentives that were impossible to meet without defrauding customers, yes, they got caught. They fired thousands of tellers.
        coffeefirst 6y ago
        Absolutely. The bigger you are the easier it is to claim plausible deniability for each of the "isolated" incidents. If the executives will even meet the people who they've put in this position, it's easier to lose or just never hear the complaints and red flags.
  - Alex3917 6y ago
    > But they do the returns if you ask. Only if you notice within the return window. They wouldn't refund our purchase of The Wire box set (when DVDs were still a thing) unless we got it "authenticated" as being a counterfeit by HBO, and even then they were extremely difficult about it.
  - rasz 6y ago
    return? you mean knowingly transport illegal goods across state and international borders? 18 U.S.C. § 2314 (1994)) (indicating that shipping counterfeit merchandise across state lines “may violate laws prohibiting the interstate transportation of stolen property”
    - slavik81 6y ago
      Could you clarify? Looking at the rules here, none of them would seem to apply. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2314 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2314
      - rasz 6y ago
        Dont know, google found this as a possible interpretation. Courier services usually have this somewhere in ToS, plus customs will confiscate it and you end up on the hook.
- OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
  Yes, and therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. The problem with being an "everything store" is that everything also includes an overwhelming majority of crap, looking at you crappy "genuine sony" camera batteries that held about 10 minutes of charge, fulfilled by amazon.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU scams), or the like. And - preferably to any of those options - support your local small retailer, if any.
    - ikeboy 6y ago
      Every retailer you mentioned deals in grey market products. Here's B&H proudly admitting to it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp
      - acomjean 6y ago
        You can buy gray market, and save a few dollars. It’s different when you buy and get grey market unexpectedly.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        > For IMP items only, B&H provides a warranty identical to the provisions and limitations of the manufacturer's warranty for such items, with the exception of the time period, which is equal to the term of the manufacturer's warranty or one (1) year, whichever is less.* Your dated B&H sales receipt is all you need to obtain warranty coverage from B&H for a "grey market" product purchased from us. This is not typically the case if you get a grey market lens on Amazon. It's also something you'll be told on the listing.
sergiotapia 6y ago
>“Most courts have said they’re not a seller at all which makes California’s case interesting. They’re pretty much saying that, in California, if it’s on the website for sale, they’re selling it. What kind of monkey circus are we living in where this is not common sense. Is Amazon really taking the same position as OfferUp? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmBxQHbZQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmBxQHbZQQ Regrettable, when I lived in Bolivia I dreamed of being able to purchase things online. Having that security was priceless to me. Now that I live here it seems Amazon has become a fleamarket website. I buy things through Walmart now, only the things sold by Walmart themselves.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stickfigure 6y ago
> Imagine you went into a retail store with a faulty product I understand where you are coming from, but there are lots of consignment stores and flea markets, at least in the middle parts of the US. The person you pay at the front counter simply records the transaction for the merchant. Amazon is a sort of cross between traditional retail and a consignment store, so it's not obvious (or "common sense") where product liability should lie.
- wtallis 6y ago
  Consignment stores and flea markets are for secondhand goods. Most of what is sold on Amazon is represented by Amazon as new rather than used.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    This is not correct. There are plenty of subdivided retail marketplaces (with a single cashier) that sell new products. There's one here where I live in Winters (just north of SF), and I found them frequently in the midwest when I lived there. Merchants rent small blocks of space from the establishment; what they put on the shelves is really up to them. Yes, this is commonly secondhand goods. But not always. The shop in Winters is all new products, more like a brick-and-mortar Etsy. It's a thing.
    - kadoban 6y ago
      That starts to be somewhat comparable, but still doesn't feel much like Amazon. Amazon isn't separate blocks of space, and merchants don't really rent their own areas. On a website that'd look like amazon.com/mycrapcompanystore/ or something. As a customer I just go to amazon and search for what I want. They choose what specific items I should see, in what order, and I am barely aware of who actually sent the item to Amazon. You have to look pretty closely to even tell. In many cases it's just not even possible to choose, with the way Amazon combines their stock.
      - crooked-v 6y ago
johnchristopher 6y ago
It happened once to me. I bought a Sonata Antec PC case ~15 years ago. Quite expensive, first (and last) time I shelled out so much for a case. The PSU was weird, it didn't work with my new mobo but did work with an older one. Got the mobo sent back for checking (I had to pay extra fees for “repairs“, bought in the same shop), came back okay. A week of intense pondering with one of my friend on the floor of my bedroom. Two weeks top of back and forth with the shop. Then it hit us: the 24watts 4-pin sugar was missing internal cabling. This explained the hit and off working. Back to the store with the case and the PSU (again). I am told they won't replace it because it's not an hidden defect, it's a “physical damage” and I'd have to send it back myself to the manufacturer and they can't do anything. I bought a 20€ no-name PSU on the spot and never again bought anything from this shop. To this day I am still using all the clot I have on people asking for PC advice to convince them not to go there.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  In many countries that is sorted out via the consumer protection agency, links below for the German and Portuguese ones. https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ https://www.consumidor.gov.pt/ https://www.consumidor.gov.pt/ And across Europe we have, https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/consumers/resolve-your-consumer-complaint/european-consumer-centres-network-ecc-net_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/consumers/reso... Usually those pesky shops get gently very quickly if you are willing to bring them into the fight.
  - oasisbob 6y ago
    It's not just small pesky shops that screw the consumer. You step out of the EU/NA and consumer protections quickly disappear. Reliance is one of India's largest companies, they have a consumer electronics brand like Best Buy. The worst return experience I've EVER had was trying to return a DOA pair of Bluetooth headphones to them. Their literal return policy is that you don't, unless it's defective, then you can exchange. It was only after opening two more pairs of Sony crappy-developing-market-special-models that were also defective that they refunded me and sent me on my way. I have no doubt that the only reason they did that for me in the end was because I was a tall white foreigner.
kazinator 6y ago
> went into a retail store with a faulty product and they were to try fob you off saying you need to go to their supplier/wholesaler/manufacturer Far from unheard of, sadly.
- R0b0t1 6y ago
  It's typical with most brick and mortar stores to be refused a return. I'm unsure if they are simply never challenged on this or intentionally mislead their customers while knowing the law. Everyone should know you never have to do an RMA if you don't want to and it's only been 30-90 days.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    >It's typical with most brick and mortar stores to be refused a return. I've never been refused a return on any product from any brick and mortar store store unless it was for something I was explicitly told was final sale or it was my own fault by losing the receipt or destroying the packaging or something. I even returned a $500 laptop to a Futureshop the day after getting it after dropping it off my lap onto the carpet and the screen completely dying. There was no hassle and I walked out with a brand new laptop.
    - radicality 6y ago
      So you damaged the item from your own carelessness and then returned it next day to get a new one? Why did they accept it? Mistakes happen, but why should the store be liable for this? Further, is this not fraud? This is reminding me of my friend who because of the work-from-home orders wanted a standing desk. He buys one, uses it everyday and then returns it a day before the last return day. He’s on his 5th one now. He absolutely has the money (software engineer). To me that’s outright fraud. People who abuse return policies likely increase the prices for everyone.
      - grawprog 6y ago
        No, it was part of their return policy. I explained exactly what happened. The store explained they would contact Toshiba, return it for repair and resell it as refurbished when it was returned. The repairs and damage was covered by Toshiba as far as the store explained to me. It's just the store as the seller was taking on the responsibility for sealing with this as part of selling Toshiba products and the store and Toshiba are clearly alright with this arrangement.
kirillzubovsky 6y ago
Actually, on the contrary, imagine you went to Safeway, and they sold you a carton of juice. You came home, and found out the juice was poisoned. According to this ruling, Safeway, the delivery company, the guy who moved the boxes, and everyone in between you and the manufacturer, are all at fault. Isn't that plain crazy? Safeway has no control over the juice in the box, except for being able to follow their own guidelines on refrigeration, and check the expire date. Short of manufacturing their own laptops, how is Amazon to ensure those batteries won't malfunction. How is your corner 7/11 able to ensure that your Gatorade does't have piss in it. How is your gas station able to ensure that those M&Ms you bough don't have nails in them? If you make stores liable for the products they sell, it removes all the incentive to make good products. Manufacturers can ship anything, who cares, the stores are at fault!
- jarym 6y ago
  Retailers will keep Product Liability Insurance and make sure their suppliers have the same for this very reason. When a claim arises there are 2 perspectives: 1. The customer only has to deal with the place they bought from. 2. Every merchant up the chain will have to go through their liability insurance to figure out who pays out. Consumer protection laws are this way for a reason and when they're respected they work really well.
  - mianos 6y ago
    Is this a common thing in the US? I am from Australia and the cost for managing individual product returns is a cost of business, something you take into account when pricing. There is an insurance product called 'Product Liability', but it's to insurance against large payouts, not individual returns.
    - jarym 6y ago
      Sorry, I was referring to the example that a product injures someone - as far as I know, yes, same in US, businesses have to eat the cost of returns.
- 6y ago
Karishma1234 6y ago
How does this work for non-Amazon now ? Especially Google shopping ? I would personally be more confident in a product which is clearly labeled as "Amazon Liable" but then I am just happy to take my chances with that knock off Ferrari jacket if it is 1/10th the price.

by jarym 6y ago

ashtonkem 6y ago

More specifically, the responsibility for chasing down the manufacturer for a refund is shifted onto the retailer, not the consumer.

briandear 6y ago
And the retailer has leverage the consumer does not. “Fix this or we don’t sell your stuff.”
an_opabinia 6y ago
Has Amazon systemically refuses refunds for people who try to return counterfeit goods? It definitely doesn’t care if you don’t even notice. But they do the returns if you ask. The former is what needs to change.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I actually had them refuse a return on a blatantly counterfeit set of coffee filters (they were 1/4 size and didn’t even fit the brand they were marked for). Given that it was about $12, I didn’t fight them about it.
- cscurmudgeon 6y ago
  Only within their refund period. I have had so many products break down after their return window. Most recent example: Expensive chargers which stopped work within a few months. The seller’s page was gone. Customer support was of no use. This seems to be a common pattern. Fly by night sellers whose pages disappear within a few days.
  - x0x0 6y ago
    "duracell" cr2032s -- those little pancake batteries for your car keyfob -- that die within 4 months. Which is weird, because the duracells at my hardware store last like 5 years.
    - ping_pong 6y ago
      Yes, this exact same thing happened to me with cr2032s. Now I'm only buying from trusted retailers who own their inventory.
    - yomly 6y ago
      When you buy these fakes from Amazon are they sold by Amazon? Or are they 3P sellers? Or is the problem that FBA sellers are infecting legitimate "sold by Amazon" inventory?
      - myself248 6y ago
        If Amazon commingles the inventory from unknown supply chains, how can any of it be called "legitimate"?
        yomly 6y ago
        Yeah - FBA is actually a really awful attack vector. I hope that they internally are able to track sub-ASIN level inventory, otherwise they have made a fantastic laundering platform.
        AnssiH 6y ago
        Yes, they are able to track original sources (by never putting commingled units in the same bin), per seller help pages (and e.g. Amazon comments in this article: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/04/03/1554287401000/Amazon--sub-prime---Part-II/ https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/04/03/1554287401000/Amazon-...).
        6y ago
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  You can't even report that the reason for your return is that you suspect or know that the item you received is counterfeit during the return process. If Amazon cared about a problem this big, they would collect metrics from customers on it.
  - furyg3 6y ago
    There may be other reasons (legal) to not want to collect these metrics...
    - leoc 6y ago
      Repeating myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19199343 > The classic "control fraud" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud strategy is to incentivise your subordinates to maximise revenues while "neglecting" to check that they aren't engaging in fraud to do it. Then you can protest your innocence when the fraud comes to light.
      - amelius 6y ago
        Would control fraud work in a company as big as Amazon? If you're that big, then there's a huge probability of a whistleblower or unhappy ex-employee exposing you.
        rodgerd 6y ago
        When Wells Fargo set incentives that were impossible to meet without defrauding customers, yes, they got caught. They fired thousands of tellers.
        coffeefirst 6y ago
        Absolutely. The bigger you are the easier it is to claim plausible deniability for each of the "isolated" incidents. If the executives will even meet the people who they've put in this position, it's easier to lose or just never hear the complaints and red flags.
- Alex3917 6y ago
  > But they do the returns if you ask. Only if you notice within the return window. They wouldn't refund our purchase of The Wire box set (when DVDs were still a thing) unless we got it "authenticated" as being a counterfeit by HBO, and even then they were extremely difficult about it.
- rasz 6y ago
  return? you mean knowingly transport illegal goods across state and international borders? 18 U.S.C. § 2314 (1994)) (indicating that shipping counterfeit merchandise across state lines “may violate laws prohibiting the interstate transportation of stolen property”
  - slavik81 6y ago
    Could you clarify? Looking at the rules here, none of them would seem to apply. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2314 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2314
    - rasz 6y ago
      Dont know, google found this as a possible interpretation. Courier services usually have this somewhere in ToS, plus customs will confiscate it and you end up on the hook.
OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
Yes, and therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. The problem with being an "everything store" is that everything also includes an overwhelming majority of crap, looking at you crappy "genuine sony" camera batteries that held about 10 minutes of charge, fulfilled by amazon.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU scams), or the like. And - preferably to any of those options - support your local small retailer, if any.
  - ikeboy 6y ago
    Every retailer you mentioned deals in grey market products. Here's B&H proudly admitting to it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp
    - acomjean 6y ago
      You can buy gray market, and save a few dollars. It’s different when you buy and get grey market unexpectedly.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > For IMP items only, B&H provides a warranty identical to the provisions and limitations of the manufacturer's warranty for such items, with the exception of the time period, which is equal to the term of the manufacturer's warranty or one (1) year, whichever is less.* Your dated B&H sales receipt is all you need to obtain warranty coverage from B&H for a "grey market" product purchased from us. This is not typically the case if you get a grey market lens on Amazon. It's also something you'll be told on the listing.

sergiotapia 6y ago

>“Most courts have said they’re not a seller at all which makes California’s case interesting. They’re pretty much saying that, in California, if it’s on the website for sale, they’re selling it. What kind of monkey circus are we living in where this is not common sense. Is Amazon really taking the same position as OfferUp? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmBxQHbZQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmBxQHbZQQ Regrettable, when I lived in Bolivia I dreamed of being able to purchase things online. Having that security was priceless to me. Now that I live here it seems Amazon has become a fleamarket website. I buy things through Walmart now, only the things sold by Walmart themselves.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

stickfigure 6y ago

> Imagine you went into a retail store with a faulty product I understand where you are coming from, but there are lots of consignment stores and flea markets, at least in the middle parts of the US. The person you pay at the front counter simply records the transaction for the merchant. Amazon is a sort of cross between traditional retail and a consignment store, so it's not obvious (or "common sense") where product liability should lie.

wtallis 6y ago
Consignment stores and flea markets are for secondhand goods. Most of what is sold on Amazon is represented by Amazon as new rather than used.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  This is not correct. There are plenty of subdivided retail marketplaces (with a single cashier) that sell new products. There's one here where I live in Winters (just north of SF), and I found them frequently in the midwest when I lived there. Merchants rent small blocks of space from the establishment; what they put on the shelves is really up to them. Yes, this is commonly secondhand goods. But not always. The shop in Winters is all new products, more like a brick-and-mortar Etsy. It's a thing.
  - kadoban 6y ago
    That starts to be somewhat comparable, but still doesn't feel much like Amazon. Amazon isn't separate blocks of space, and merchants don't really rent their own areas. On a website that'd look like amazon.com/mycrapcompanystore/ or something. As a customer I just go to amazon and search for what I want. They choose what specific items I should see, in what order, and I am barely aware of who actually sent the item to Amazon. You have to look pretty closely to even tell. In many cases it's just not even possible to choose, with the way Amazon combines their stock.
    - crooked-v 6y ago

johnchristopher 6y ago

It happened once to me. I bought a Sonata Antec PC case ~15 years ago. Quite expensive, first (and last) time I shelled out so much for a case. The PSU was weird, it didn't work with my new mobo but did work with an older one. Got the mobo sent back for checking (I had to pay extra fees for “repairs“, bought in the same shop), came back okay. A week of intense pondering with one of my friend on the floor of my bedroom. Two weeks top of back and forth with the shop. Then it hit us: the 24watts 4-pin sugar was missing internal cabling. This explained the hit and off working. Back to the store with the case and the PSU (again). I am told they won't replace it because it's not an hidden defect, it's a “physical damage” and I'd have to send it back myself to the manufacturer and they can't do anything. I bought a 20€ no-name PSU on the spot and never again bought anything from this shop. To this day I am still using all the clot I have on people asking for PC advice to convince them not to go there.

pjmlp 6y ago
In many countries that is sorted out via the consumer protection agency, links below for the German and Portuguese ones. https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/ https://www.consumidor.gov.pt/ https://www.consumidor.gov.pt/ And across Europe we have, https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/consumers/resolve-your-consumer-complaint/european-consumer-centres-network-ecc-net_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/consumers/reso... Usually those pesky shops get gently very quickly if you are willing to bring them into the fight.
- oasisbob 6y ago
  It's not just small pesky shops that screw the consumer. You step out of the EU/NA and consumer protections quickly disappear. Reliance is one of India's largest companies, they have a consumer electronics brand like Best Buy. The worst return experience I've EVER had was trying to return a DOA pair of Bluetooth headphones to them. Their literal return policy is that you don't, unless it's defective, then you can exchange. It was only after opening two more pairs of Sony crappy-developing-market-special-models that were also defective that they refunded me and sent me on my way. I have no doubt that the only reason they did that for me in the end was because I was a tall white foreigner.

kazinator 6y ago

> went into a retail store with a faulty product and they were to try fob you off saying you need to go to their supplier/wholesaler/manufacturer Far from unheard of, sadly.

R0b0t1 6y ago
It's typical with most brick and mortar stores to be refused a return. I'm unsure if they are simply never challenged on this or intentionally mislead their customers while knowing the law. Everyone should know you never have to do an RMA if you don't want to and it's only been 30-90 days.
- grawprog 6y ago
  >It's typical with most brick and mortar stores to be refused a return. I've never been refused a return on any product from any brick and mortar store store unless it was for something I was explicitly told was final sale or it was my own fault by losing the receipt or destroying the packaging or something. I even returned a $500 laptop to a Futureshop the day after getting it after dropping it off my lap onto the carpet and the screen completely dying. There was no hassle and I walked out with a brand new laptop.
  - radicality 6y ago
    So you damaged the item from your own carelessness and then returned it next day to get a new one? Why did they accept it? Mistakes happen, but why should the store be liable for this? Further, is this not fraud? This is reminding me of my friend who because of the work-from-home orders wanted a standing desk. He buys one, uses it everyday and then returns it a day before the last return day. He’s on his 5th one now. He absolutely has the money (software engineer). To me that’s outright fraud. People who abuse return policies likely increase the prices for everyone.
    - grawprog 6y ago
      No, it was part of their return policy. I explained exactly what happened. The store explained they would contact Toshiba, return it for repair and resell it as refurbished when it was returned. The repairs and damage was covered by Toshiba as far as the store explained to me. It's just the store as the seller was taking on the responsibility for sealing with this as part of selling Toshiba products and the store and Toshiba are clearly alright with this arrangement.

kirillzubovsky 6y ago

Actually, on the contrary, imagine you went to Safeway, and they sold you a carton of juice. You came home, and found out the juice was poisoned. According to this ruling, Safeway, the delivery company, the guy who moved the boxes, and everyone in between you and the manufacturer, are all at fault. Isn't that plain crazy? Safeway has no control over the juice in the box, except for being able to follow their own guidelines on refrigeration, and check the expire date. Short of manufacturing their own laptops, how is Amazon to ensure those batteries won't malfunction. How is your corner 7/11 able to ensure that your Gatorade does't have piss in it. How is your gas station able to ensure that those M&Ms you bough don't have nails in them? If you make stores liable for the products they sell, it removes all the incentive to make good products. Manufacturers can ship anything, who cares, the stores are at fault!

jarym 6y ago
Retailers will keep Product Liability Insurance and make sure their suppliers have the same for this very reason. When a claim arises there are 2 perspectives: 1. The customer only has to deal with the place they bought from. 2. Every merchant up the chain will have to go through their liability insurance to figure out who pays out. Consumer protection laws are this way for a reason and when they're respected they work really well.
- mianos 6y ago
  Is this a common thing in the US? I am from Australia and the cost for managing individual product returns is a cost of business, something you take into account when pricing. There is an insurance product called 'Product Liability', but it's to insurance against large payouts, not individual returns.
  - jarym 6y ago
    Sorry, I was referring to the example that a product injures someone - as far as I know, yes, same in US, businesses have to eat the cost of returns.
6y ago

Karishma1234 6y ago

How does this work for non-Amazon now ? Especially Google shopping ? I would personally be more confident in a product which is clearly labeled as "Amazon Liable" but then I am just happy to take my chances with that knock off Ferrari jacket if it is 1/10th the price.