6 ms·

The value offered by colleges is not just an education. It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, par

The value offered by colleges is not just an education. It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ). There is virtually no demand for online only classes above a 5k/year price point. There is a similar situation with private schools. Some of the demand comes from the fact that it is also a babysitting service, forced social group, networking opportunity for parents.

chongli 6y ago
It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ) I’m in university right now. I just finished a term of online classes. I’ve definitely witnessed those benefits being enjoyed by other students but I haven’t had the time to enjoy them myself; my program is simply too difficult for that. The most I’ve enjoyed is going out for drinks with friends once a week, and maybe the occasional meal out on another night. The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  It's staggering to me how much people will publicly support government subsidized partying and friend making. At least in the past it felt like people pretended it was about education.
  - TomVDB 6y ago
    Partying in college is totally a new phenomenon!
    - Consultant32452 6y ago
      It's not new, but that was never really part of the sales pitch of why we should subsidize it.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure I read in either Herodotus or Thucydides a paragraph documenting complaints that the students were drinking instead of training. Sound familiar? (And that was several thousand years ago)
- chrisjarvis 6y ago
  You don't have to be in a frat to have the "college experience", but you should explore interests outside of your direct course of study and meet new people. I think you will regret it if you just keep your nose down the whole time, whether or not its right you are paying for much more than classes. Given a second chance I would follow this advice :)
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  >The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. I disagree completely. Some people are just inhumanly capable of balancing everything. One of the smartest people I met while in school was in a sorority and partied hard. She was also extremely successful academically and is currently attending medical school. I also had my share of fun, but I would never have been able to keep up with her. Fortunately my academic ambitions don't go much farther than my BS in comp. sci. Just because you can't manage the balancing act doesn't mean no one else can.
  - chongli 6y ago
    I disagree completely. Some people are just inhumanly capable of balancing everything. One of the smartest people I met while in school was in a sorority and partied hard. She was also extremely successful academically and is currently attending medical school. She’s the exception that proves the rule. I met at least half a dozen people in first year who partied only moderately and have since flunked out of the school. They’ve moved to other schools with less demanding programs and tried to put their lives back together. I also met someone who studied for an entire term to pass the MCAT and got into medical school. She seemed like the type of person who really knew how to balance her life though. Not a crazy partier but someone with close friendships.
    - 0xffff2 6y ago
      I think both you and she are near opposite ends of a fairly normal distribution. Yes, she's an outlier (not as much as you seem to think though), but your description of your experience is as well.
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    Ya, that’s an outlier, over a quarter of people drop out of college because they can’t handle following directions.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    > ...in a sorority When I was in college from 2002 to 2006, the thing I heard about sororities was that joining one usually helped a GPAs, and they were really good about keeping an archive of old exams and notes. Joining a frat hurt your GPA.
- matwood 6y ago
  > The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. You'd be surprised. Unless you're with someone 24/7 you actually don't know what else they are doing. I knew a girl in college who you might think partied all the time. I mean, she was always out and about, so makes sense. Except, the few people who knew her better got to see her literally study for 24 straight hours by sleeping 15-20 minutes here and there, slam a diet mountain dew on the way to class and ace the test. These were non-trivial classes, and she graduated with a 4.0 by the way. Was this a healthy way to go through college? I don't think so. It certainly was not how I did it. But it did show me a level of effort around studying/working I didn't think was possible, and also that what people do in private will surprise you.
- wuunderbar 6y ago
  > The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Not true at all. Perhaps they may not end up with the best GPA but they'll do good enough to get a useful degree while having a strong network. It may not have been the healthiest lifestyle for the time being, but they made it out fine. Source: A large part of my college social circle who ended up in fruitful STEM/consulting/medicine careers.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    If someone didn’t have to commute or work a lot of hours in a part time job, they should have more than enough time to do those things while studying enough. Or maybe they prefer to hit the gym, there are lots of options.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  this reminds me of the scene in the movie Booksmart where the nerdy girls who did nothing but study and work towards their academic dreams found out all the "dumb" party kids also got into top tier schools while also having fun.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
  > The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. I don't know why you're assuming this, but I'm a little insulted. I was an NCAA athlete and a common refrain I always heard was that the most valuable skill you get from it is incredible time management. I didn't kill time on sites like HN or reddit or facebook (the only social network at the time). We partied a decent amount too. About half of the particular people I played and partied with now have doctorates from world class institutions. Nearly all of us have STEM degrees.
fiftyfifty 6y ago
I've come to the conclusion that this is what most parents and students are looking for...a [relatively] safe place to finish growing up. The degree is only part of the equation.
- Gwypaas 6y ago
  I feel this is the consequence of the American style no responsibilities system. Why on earth should an 18 year old high school senior need a hall-pass to go to the restroom? Signed a Swede who spent an exchange year in Texan upper middle class suburban public high school.
  - weehoo 6y ago
    When I tell people that Finnish middle schools don’t have bells and the kids just go places when they need to they look at me in disbelief. Kids live up to the expectations they are given. The patronizing nature of the American education system is one of the reasons why people here have such a hard time taking personal responsibility for things in my opinion.
    - Gwypaas 6y ago
      Same in Sweden, essentially starting in second grade for me. Thinking back on it I now see how thought out it was. The clock facing the school yard which everything depended on. In second and third grade every time it was PE, shop class or something requiring a different place than the homeroom it was scheduled so the teacher would bring the class if necessary, later just letting us go. Fourth and fifth it could be right after a break trusting us to get there on our own. Then starting sixth grade we were essentially on our own. The first class started anywhere between from 8 to 10 in the assigned room. During breaks we could go anywhere, the only limit being to get back in time. Sometimes having gaps in the schedule leading to some time to kill. Often going the public library, or playing something, or hanging out in the school building or buying coke and mentos because kids.... Then choosing high school and field of study based on interests all over town getting there using public transportation, which every student that had to travel longer than a couple of kilometers is given a pass for which is valid during school hours. Also getting the government stipend of ~$100 every month having to learn manage your own money. Wow, this was a trip down memory lane. One thing I vividly remember is feeling like a child again when starting American high school. A contrasting memory which stands out is during lunch getting in a friend's truck sneaking out to buy fast food for lunch and "stealthily" avoiding the parking lot monitors to not get into trouble. Wtf.
Wohlf 6y ago
Well unfortunately for schools and students all of those things are luxuries.

chongli 6y ago

It is 4 years of living away from home experiencing whatever floats your boat ( frats, independence, parties, sports, friends, etc... ) I’m in university right now. I just finished a term of online classes. I’ve definitely witnessed those benefits being enjoyed by other students but I haven’t had the time to enjoy them myself; my program is simply too difficult for that. The most I’ve enjoyed is going out for drinks with friends once a week, and maybe the occasional meal out on another night. The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going.

Consultant32452 6y ago
It's staggering to me how much people will publicly support government subsidized partying and friend making. At least in the past it felt like people pretended it was about education.
- TomVDB 6y ago
  Partying in college is totally a new phenomenon!
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    It's not new, but that was never really part of the sales pitch of why we should subsidize it.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure I read in either Herodotus or Thucydides a paragraph documenting complaints that the students were drinking instead of training. Sound familiar? (And that was several thousand years ago)
chrisjarvis 6y ago
You don't have to be in a frat to have the "college experience", but you should explore interests outside of your direct course of study and meet new people. I think you will regret it if you just keep your nose down the whole time, whether or not its right you are paying for much more than classes. Given a second chance I would follow this advice :)
0xffff2 6y ago
>The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. I disagree completely. Some people are just inhumanly capable of balancing everything. One of the smartest people I met while in school was in a sorority and partied hard. She was also extremely successful academically and is currently attending medical school. I also had my share of fun, but I would never have been able to keep up with her. Fortunately my academic ambitions don't go much farther than my BS in comp. sci. Just because you can't manage the balancing act doesn't mean no one else can.
- chongli 6y ago
  I disagree completely. Some people are just inhumanly capable of balancing everything. One of the smartest people I met while in school was in a sorority and partied hard. She was also extremely successful academically and is currently attending medical school. She’s the exception that proves the rule. I met at least half a dozen people in first year who partied only moderately and have since flunked out of the school. They’ve moved to other schools with less demanding programs and tried to put their lives back together. I also met someone who studied for an entire term to pass the MCAT and got into medical school. She seemed like the type of person who really knew how to balance her life though. Not a crazy partier but someone with close friendships.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    I think both you and she are near opposite ends of a fairly normal distribution. Yes, she's an outlier (not as much as you seem to think though), but your description of your experience is as well.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Ya, that’s an outlier, over a quarter of people drop out of college because they can’t handle following directions.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > ...in a sorority When I was in college from 2002 to 2006, the thing I heard about sororities was that joining one usually helped a GPAs, and they were really good about keeping an archive of old exams and notes. Joining a frat hurt your GPA.
matwood 6y ago
> The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. You'd be surprised. Unless you're with someone 24/7 you actually don't know what else they are doing. I knew a girl in college who you might think partied all the time. I mean, she was always out and about, so makes sense. Except, the few people who knew her better got to see her literally study for 24 straight hours by sleeping 15-20 minutes here and there, slam a diet mountain dew on the way to class and ace the test. These were non-trivial classes, and she graduated with a 4.0 by the way. Was this a healthy way to go through college? I don't think so. It certainly was not how I did it. But it did show me a level of effort around studying/working I didn't think was possible, and also that what people do in private will surprise you.
wuunderbar 6y ago
> The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Not true at all. Perhaps they may not end up with the best GPA but they'll do good enough to get a useful degree while having a strong network. It may not have been the healthiest lifestyle for the time being, but they made it out fine. Source: A large part of my college social circle who ended up in fruitful STEM/consulting/medicine careers.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  If someone didn’t have to commute or work a lot of hours in a part time job, they should have more than enough time to do those things while studying enough. Or maybe they prefer to hit the gym, there are lots of options.
bluntfang 6y ago
this reminds me of the scene in the movie Booksmart where the nerdy girls who did nothing but study and work towards their academic dreams found out all the "dumb" party kids also got into top tier schools while also having fun.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
> The ones joining frats, partying constantly, playing sports and all that must have trivial classes. Either that or they’re already so rich and privileged that they can afford to fail courses and keep going. I don't know why you're assuming this, but I'm a little insulted. I was an NCAA athlete and a common refrain I always heard was that the most valuable skill you get from it is incredible time management. I didn't kill time on sites like HN or reddit or facebook (the only social network at the time). We partied a decent amount too. About half of the particular people I played and partied with now have doctorates from world class institutions. Nearly all of us have STEM degrees.

fiftyfifty 6y ago

I've come to the conclusion that this is what most parents and students are looking for...a [relatively] safe place to finish growing up. The degree is only part of the equation.

Gwypaas 6y ago
I feel this is the consequence of the American style no responsibilities system. Why on earth should an 18 year old high school senior need a hall-pass to go to the restroom? Signed a Swede who spent an exchange year in Texan upper middle class suburban public high school.
- weehoo 6y ago
  When I tell people that Finnish middle schools don’t have bells and the kids just go places when they need to they look at me in disbelief. Kids live up to the expectations they are given. The patronizing nature of the American education system is one of the reasons why people here have such a hard time taking personal responsibility for things in my opinion.
  - Gwypaas 6y ago
    Same in Sweden, essentially starting in second grade for me. Thinking back on it I now see how thought out it was. The clock facing the school yard which everything depended on. In second and third grade every time it was PE, shop class or something requiring a different place than the homeroom it was scheduled so the teacher would bring the class if necessary, later just letting us go. Fourth and fifth it could be right after a break trusting us to get there on our own. Then starting sixth grade we were essentially on our own. The first class started anywhere between from 8 to 10 in the assigned room. During breaks we could go anywhere, the only limit being to get back in time. Sometimes having gaps in the schedule leading to some time to kill. Often going the public library, or playing something, or hanging out in the school building or buying coke and mentos because kids.... Then choosing high school and field of study based on interests all over town getting there using public transportation, which every student that had to travel longer than a couple of kilometers is given a pass for which is valid during school hours. Also getting the government stipend of ~$100 every month having to learn manage your own money. Wow, this was a trip down memory lane. One thing I vividly remember is feeling like a child again when starting American high school. A contrasting memory which stands out is during lunch getting in a friend's truck sneaking out to buy fast food for lunch and "stealthily" avoiding the parking lot monitors to not get into trouble. Wtf.

Wohlf 6y ago

Well unfortunately for schools and students all of those things are luxuries.