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Please excuse my potential ignorance here, as I fear that I may not have a complete picture of the issue at hand. Was it not confirmed yesterday that the USPS
by andykx 6y ago
Please excuse my potential ignorance here, as I fear that I may not have a complete picture of the issue at hand.
Was it not confirmed yesterday that the USPS is being purposefully sabotaged by the current administration? Or was it facing problems previously, and the current administration decided to use the existing problems to its benefit? Is it not well within the federal government's power to simply increase funding, or does the USPS function like any other business?
I am not trying to spark a political debate here, I am genuinely curious.
- nyxtom 6y agoYes, this is an active (as in: in progress crime) sabotage of the most crucial distribution system we have for the purpose of manipulating the election. > During an interview with Fox Business Network, the president said that he will block funding for the US Postal Service requested by Democratic lawmakers, citing his intention to prevent universal mail-in voting. Trump acknowledged in the interview that the USPS will be unable to process a large number of ballots from mail-in voting without the funding.
- CamperBob2 6y agoAt this point, Trump has openly stated his intention to impair the mail-in voting process by limiting funding and support for the USPS. It's not "political" any more, and it's not a matter of opinion. America's electoral system is officially under attack.
- afterburner 6y agoYes. Republicans have long ago turned the USPS into a political football in the culture wars. And they want to sabotage mail-in votes this time, that's a new twist.
- chrisco255 6y agoThat's quite the conspiracy theory. Republicans are generally against mail-in ballots because they are subject to all sorts of interference. Some elections come down to a few hundred votes. As for USPS being a political football...it's a government service.
- salusinarduis 6y agoIt's not a conspiracy. Fox news has been running content for years characterizing USPS as a mismanaged business that needs to be privatized.
- chrisco255 6y agoHave they? Did one of their contributors have that opinion? Is that a crime? I'm guessing youve never met a libertarian. That's a huge stretch from using the USPS to rig an election. Both sides are accusing the other of trying to take advantage of the sudden surge in interest in mail-in voting. edit reply: you can't on the one hand argue that mail is a reliable way to run an election and on the other argue that a politician is trying to use it for their advantage. Not giving up, he didn't say he was using it. He said the Democrats would use it. Either way, these arguments underscore just how hackable and exploitable mail in voting is.
- CamperBob2 6y agoThat's a huge stretch from using the USPS to rig an election. He admitted it on TV. Give it up.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- joshAg 6y agoand yet trump just admitted exactly that: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump-usps-post-office-election-funding https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/13/donald-trump...
- chrisco255 6y agoHe wants to make it harder to vote by mail to prevent fraud, not to create it. You know, elections sometimes come down to a few hundred votes. You think the USPS should control the outcome of an election based on how many parcels they misplace? Or how many dead people vote? Or how many non-citizens vote? Or whether a box of ballots in a republican heavy or Democrat heavy area is left behind? It would be trivial to fuck with this system. The last election it was difficult to convince people that Russian bots were not a factor in the election. People were convinced that $100K in social media ad spend were enough to shift an election. Now all of a sudden mail in paper ballots are a bulletproof way to run a democracy.
- CamperBob2 6y agoThe thread doesn't need to be turned into a political flamefest. Every American voter should be on the same side here. This isn't about what Republicans do, or what Democrats do. It's about what enemies of the state do. Many Republicans are speaking up alongside their usual opponents, because they know very well that when Trump is done with the Democrats, he'll come for them.
- afterburner 6y agoTrump has literally said he wants to interfere with the mail because it would be used too much for voting. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/donald-trump-mail-in-ballots-2020/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/donald-trump-mail-in... This is not a "both sides" issue.
- evan_ 6y agoWhat republicans? Certainly not any in power.
- CamperBob2 6y agoThe Lincoln Project comes to mind. Not sure they've chimed in about the USPS, however, or if they have had time to do so.
- seppin 6y agoThe Lincoln Project counts no elected officials as members. Come on.
- evan_ 6y agoLike I said, nobody in power. The Lincoln Project is a grift. Preaching to the choir monetized.
- mindslight 6y agoThe Lincoln Project is fighting for sanity, but at this point the entire party will inevitably share blame for the disasters that have occurred under Trump. At any time senate republicans could announce that they would be agreeable to another impeachment, yet the party establishment continues to sit by and condone the country being torn apart. As a constituent, the only things to do are accept that the Republican Party has gravely failed, work on replacing the congresscritters that contributed to this mess, and plan for a shot in 2028.
- bobmalone123 6y agoOne party wants people to show up to vote with their face and ID. The other wants them to vote by mail as much as possible (which is more prone to fraud). Tell me again: who is sabotaging who?
- afterburner 6y agoVoter fraud is practically non-existent. Voter ID laws are used to disenfranchise black people and the poor. Voting by mail in a pandemic is very wise. Advising against it is a murderous suggestion.
- iszomer 6y agoWhy do these budding political discussions always get the race card pulled up?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- afterburner 6y agoHey, no one's forcing the Republicans to try to disenfranchise black people or peddle racist ideologies. They did that all on their own.
- iszomer 6y agoSources? I am genuinely interested why you think they do.
- afterburner 6y agoBecause black people vote Democrat by a massive margin.
- parrellel 6y agoLook up the realignment of the Republican party and the Southern strategy, the Voting Rights Act, and the various hurdles that some states began to re-implement after the gutting of that act in 2013. It's kind of a thing.
- letusknow123 6y agoConsidering the democrats cheated in the last election. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be suspicious of mail in votes. I think just about everyone has a valid ID.
- runawaybottle 6y agoWe can’t know right now, our current society is poorly equipped to assess anything happening in the present. It’s become a politicized topic, similar to Trump’s Covid medication suggestions. We’ve got about two months until the election and the average American will throw this accusation around based on political leanings. Few are going to do the proper investigation on this. Here’s an example: https://www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/n7wk9z/the-post-office-is-deactivating-mail-sorting-machines-ahead-of-the-election https://www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/n7wk9z/the-post-offic... ”Motherboard identified 19 mail sorting machines from five processing facilities across the U.S. that either have already been removed or are scheduled to be in the near future. But the Postal Service operates hundreds of distribution facilities around the country, so it is not clear precisely how many machines are getting removed and for what purpose.” The headline is what will be politically thrown around, but the true assessment of the facts won’t occur. How many sorting machines do they have, and why are they shutting some down? Is this routine? Have we clearly identified that it’s a budget issue? We spent almost a year tracking Russiagate, so this kind of bullshit is par for the course.
- Causality1 6y agoThe ability of the USPS to balance its budget was deliberately kneecapped by limiting how much it can increase prices, subsidizing foreign-based packages, and requiring it to pre-pay its pensions for 75 years. The recent shakeup, slowdowns, and scrapping of needed equipment is a separate act of sabotage to interfere with mail-in voting.
- kfrzcode 6y agoThe USPS has had nearly a decade straight annual operating losses in billions. My guess is, as per politics-as-usual, the current administration, and opposition thereof, are using the issue as a political wedge in this election cycle, but the issues are real. I'm no expert but I recall the USPS acting like a bank, making money from savings accounts and other financial services. Would be interested in some of the various arguments for or against privatization/funding.
- intortus 6y agoThe decade of operating losses is also due to sabotage by a Republican Congress under a Republican President: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enhancement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enha...
- sukilot 6y agoNot true. It was a passed by a unanimous bipartisan vote, and cosponsores bipartisan.
- grecy 6y ago> The USPS has had nearly a decade straight annual operating losses in billions The USPS is not a business. It does not lose money. The USPS is a service. It costs money to run, like other services in the country (Medicad, the military, the EPA). If you're upset about the USPS losing billions here and there, wait till you hear about the military losing 750 Billion each and every year!
- chiefalchemist 6y agoWhat unfortunate is the how much junkmail is responsible for those losses.
- btgeekboy 6y agoOr how much transit funding comes from ticket sales vs. government budgets.
- 6y ago
- Buttons840 6y agoSome Googling will bring up articles saying the post office has been losing money for awhile (which some think is just fine, since they are a government service and we don't expect all government services to turn a profit on their own). Trump recently appointed a new Postmaster General which is reportedly making a lot of changes. This is now a political issue because many believe the changes are politically motivated due to the upcoming election during a pandemic when, not surprisingly, a lot of people will vote by mail. It's especially concerning because we are clearly on a course which will lead to exceptionally low confidence in the results of the election, no matter what happens. So even if the USPS isn't profitable, it seems worth while to at least prop it up for a few more months so we can have a fair election and (equally important) have the results be trusted by the people.
- bobmalone123 6y agoIt’s the other way around. The more vote by mail, the higher the probability of fraud, and therefore the lower the trust in the results.
- Buttons840 6y agoThat's highly debated. My state has voted by mail for at least a decade and I'm not aware of any problems.
- leesalminen 6y agoBut only for roughly 1/2 of people. For the other half, voting in person would disenfranchise some demographics.
- skosch 6y agoPlease provide credible evidence for this claim.
- googthrowaway42 6y agohttps://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-york-election-failure-mail-in-voting/614446/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-yor... https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-applications-cause-confusion-in-virginia/ https://wtop.com/virginia/2020/08/unsolicited-absentee-appli...
- jojobas 6y agoI guess having to pay for ever-raising shipments from China due to China being still classed as an underdog by UPU doesn't help.
- spikels 6y agoThis is not some new development. I think politics has clouded many people’s memories and judgements. The USPS has been struggling for decades - at least since the 1980s. It had a near monopoly of written communication until then with a few high priced competitors for fast short messages (Western Union, Telex, etc). It was financially self sufficient with limited indirect subsides and support. Then the fax machine arrived, then the overnight delivery services, then email and the internet. These developments ate into USPS’s business model which required huge volumes to support a vast and expensive infrastructure. For a time the rise of junk mail provided some relief but even that waned in recent decades. Managment of the USPS was unable to deal with these changes for a number of reasons including government mandates and an inflexible unionized workforce. One persistent problem was huge pension liabilities arising from labor contracts. But the key issue was the high costs and diminished demand. It has been bailed out several times most recently in 2012. In the next few years another bailout will be needed or perhaps bankruptcy. A long-term solution would require a politically sensitive restructuring possibly including privatization. Many other countries have either completely or partially privatized their postal systems with generally good results.
- GaryNumanVevo 6y agoIt's been systemically cut over the years, mainly it's required to fund pensions out to 75 years fully. Something which no company does / needs to do. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-108publ18/pdf/PLAW-108publ18.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-108publ18/pdf/PLAW-...