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Not sure what is meant by pure, probably another way of marketing to Rust aficionados. It uses crates which still rely on unsafe ‘C’ code to interact with oper

Not sure what is meant by pure, probably another way of marketing to Rust aficionados. It uses crates which still rely on unsafe ‘C’ code to interact with operating system for interacting with files and file related OS calls. It will be nice instead of proclaiming Rust as “C” replacement it should have positioned as “A language complementing C/C++ to write safe code”. Recently Servo project is abandoned by Mozilla for which Rust is a primary language. Now need to see, if Rust can fulfils it’s primary objective to write Firefox in Rust, it looks more remote now. So it will take much longer for Rust to become as ubiquitous and important as Go language for systems programming. Probably Microsoft and others might pick to write some core new systems in Rust, instead of just rewriting same working C/C++ code in Rust for marketing purposes.

nindalf 6y ago
> if Rust can fulfils it’s primary objective to write Firefox in Rust This was what Mozilla hoped to do with it. But the teams at Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Dropbox, Cloudlfare, fastly and others using Rust have different objectives. At this point, Firefox's success and Rust's success are decoupled.
geofft 6y ago
Do you also object to the term "pure Python" because the Python interpreter is written in C? Or "pure JavaScript" because there's a whole browser underneath?
oblio 6y ago
> Not sure what is meant by pure, probably another way of marketing to Rust aficionados. "Pure" is not some Rust marketing ploy :-) It's a pretty established term meaning "written only with". I've seen pure Python, pure PHP, pure JavaScript, etc libraries and apps. It generally means you don't need another compiler to build or you don't need to know another language to contribute or fix things for yourself.
- dragonsh 6y ago
  Rust market itself as replacement for C/C++ and proclaims as if all code written in C/C++ is garbage and only Rust can solve it, when majority of it's own useful crates heavily rely on unsafe "C/C++" code. So "Pure Rust" is also marketing when you look at the crates used by this software are not Pure Rust, but rely on unsafe code of C underneath. Python, PHP do not claim as C/C++ replacement, indeed Python is synonymous with CPython written in C. In Rust community so far what I noticed is that they try to down-vote anything which shows them that Go language or Swift are more important systems programming language and Rust needs another 10 years to reach to write enough useful software like Go or Swift. Also in Python look at the example of pure python HTTP server Cheroot [1] and check how many PyPI packages it relies on. Also it can run in CPython, PyPy or Jython or any implementation of Python. Rust does not have anything like this yet so using Pure is misleading given it only has one compiler dependent on LLVM (written in C++) to generate target binary. [1] https://github.com/cherrypy/cheroot https://github.com/cherrypy/cheroot
  - oblio 6y ago
    Are you a C programmer threatened by the emergence of a C competitor? I have nothing to gain by "promoting" Rust as I'm not a Rust dev. You have commented a lot in these threads to complain about Rust. If I'm right remember that both your self worth and your employability are ultimately not tied to C. Programmers switching programming languages are not life long miners that have to turn overnight into lawyers. You start building something with Rust and you should be operational quite quickly, most of your skills transfer over.
    - amxnagH 6y ago
      Are you a Rust programmer threatened by Mozilla layoffs and critical Rust comments on a message board? A Rust proponent telling people not to tie their self worth to a language. The irony is hilarious.
    - dragonsh 6y ago
      > You start building something with Rust and you should be operational quite quickly Rust is anything but easy and simple like Go language. Please try building something like Kubernetes in Rust instead of Go and you will realize “Rust” is a a complicated language (worse than complex). Rust has a steep learning curve and the standard library is quite limited. So you will need to search and choose from different crates to do eve basic work. Eventually one can be productive in it after 2-3 years of development. Compared to it Swift, Go are much easier to pick up as systems programming language and C++ 20 is advanced enough to write safety critical code. There is a reason why large body of systems programming and software for database,network servers is written in Go language not Rust.
imtringued 6y ago
Here is a pie chart that shows which languages are used in firefox: https://4e6.github.io/firefox-lang-stats/ https://4e6.github.io/firefox-lang-stats/
damnyou 6y ago
This would have been more true in 2018 or so but is pretty false now. Many large companies have production systems written in Rust now.

nindalf 6y ago

> if Rust can fulfils it’s primary objective to write Firefox in Rust This was what Mozilla hoped to do with it. But the teams at Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Dropbox, Cloudlfare, fastly and others using Rust have different objectives. At this point, Firefox's success and Rust's success are decoupled.

geofft 6y ago

Do you also object to the term "pure Python" because the Python interpreter is written in C? Or "pure JavaScript" because there's a whole browser underneath?

oblio 6y ago

> Not sure what is meant by pure, probably another way of marketing to Rust aficionados. "Pure" is not some Rust marketing ploy :-) It's a pretty established term meaning "written only with". I've seen pure Python, pure PHP, pure JavaScript, etc libraries and apps. It generally means you don't need another compiler to build or you don't need to know another language to contribute or fix things for yourself.

dragonsh 6y ago
Rust market itself as replacement for C/C++ and proclaims as if all code written in C/C++ is garbage and only Rust can solve it, when majority of it's own useful crates heavily rely on unsafe "C/C++" code. So "Pure Rust" is also marketing when you look at the crates used by this software are not Pure Rust, but rely on unsafe code of C underneath. Python, PHP do not claim as C/C++ replacement, indeed Python is synonymous with CPython written in C. In Rust community so far what I noticed is that they try to down-vote anything which shows them that Go language or Swift are more important systems programming language and Rust needs another 10 years to reach to write enough useful software like Go or Swift. Also in Python look at the example of pure python HTTP server Cheroot [1] and check how many PyPI packages it relies on. Also it can run in CPython, PyPy or Jython or any implementation of Python. Rust does not have anything like this yet so using Pure is misleading given it only has one compiler dependent on LLVM (written in C++) to generate target binary. [1] https://github.com/cherrypy/cheroot https://github.com/cherrypy/cheroot
- oblio 6y ago
  Are you a C programmer threatened by the emergence of a C competitor? I have nothing to gain by "promoting" Rust as I'm not a Rust dev. You have commented a lot in these threads to complain about Rust. If I'm right remember that both your self worth and your employability are ultimately not tied to C. Programmers switching programming languages are not life long miners that have to turn overnight into lawyers. You start building something with Rust and you should be operational quite quickly, most of your skills transfer over.
  - amxnagH 6y ago
    Are you a Rust programmer threatened by Mozilla layoffs and critical Rust comments on a message board? A Rust proponent telling people not to tie their self worth to a language. The irony is hilarious.
  - dragonsh 6y ago
    > You start building something with Rust and you should be operational quite quickly Rust is anything but easy and simple like Go language. Please try building something like Kubernetes in Rust instead of Go and you will realize “Rust” is a a complicated language (worse than complex). Rust has a steep learning curve and the standard library is quite limited. So you will need to search and choose from different crates to do eve basic work. Eventually one can be productive in it after 2-3 years of development. Compared to it Swift, Go are much easier to pick up as systems programming language and C++ 20 is advanced enough to write safety critical code. There is a reason why large body of systems programming and software for database,network servers is written in Go language not Rust.

imtringued 6y ago

Here is a pie chart that shows which languages are used in firefox: https://4e6.github.io/firefox-lang-stats/ https://4e6.github.io/firefox-lang-stats/

damnyou 6y ago

This would have been more true in 2018 or so but is pretty false now. Many large companies have production systems written in Rust now.